A Question for the Linux Crowd

[KeriJane]

Hello.

I'm thinking that there's something that I want to do and Linux might be the way to do it.

Situation:
Friends and relatives have Windows boxes but lack the skill or inclination to do a re-install. These are mostly XP machines with a couple of Vista ones.

Store-bought PC's often have a restore partition where one can activate the Windows Pre-Installation program at boot and restore the computer to Day One. These typically call out the Windows Installation routine.

So...
How would one set up a Linux Bootloader and have an option to boot to a variant of Linux with a simple Graphical Interface so as to offer the option of restoring the main Windows Partition to a pre-configured arrangement?

Let's just call it Day One, with Windows all nice and installed, updated and with certain programs all installed, ready to go..

This would have to be very simplified with basically two options: Restore Windows to Day One or Quit and return to Windows.(normal boot)

Could one Install Windows, get it all set, install Linux, copy the Windows Partition to a hidden partition that the normal Windows installation cannot see and also hide the Linux partition?

The end result would be something like:
320GB Hard drive, 298GB total available, maybe 250GB available to Windows which treats the drive as a 250GB drive with no evidence of Linux or Day One visible to the User.

With one exception: During Boot the option to "Press Whatever Key" to restore Computer to original settings should be displayed for a second or two. That part is pretty easy I think, as it would just call up the bootloader which would be set to default Windows quickly.

Obviously a nice, full install of Linux is possible, but what I would like is a very limited and simplified variant. Just enough to copy over a partition and being extremely User-Friendly.

Is there any Variant of Linus already set to do such a thing?

Thanks for any info,
Keri

[washu]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

The closest to what you are looking for is Wubi

http://wubi-installer.org/

It installs Ubuntu (or a variant) into a file and can then boot it from the normal XP bootloader. If you give it a 10 GB file, Ubuntu will think it's installed onto a 10 GB HD. No partitions to mess with.

If you don't like it, just run the uninstall in Windows and you are back the way you were.

[ratdude747]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

do that. its slower than a full install but its a good intro. the installer for ubuntu is improved with 9.10, as is the new app manager, software center.

[etnietering]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

If you want something good an easy to use for messing with partitions, I recommend http://partedmagic.com/ I ran it off of the CD, and that's what it's designed for, but there's probably a way to do a real install of it to a hard drive.

[Bookworm]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

I do computers for a living. I'm a heavy Linux user and administrator.

Don't try it. You're looking at a world of hurt if you do. If you want them to be able to _try_ a Linux distribution without actually accessing their hard drives, use flash drives. Yes, they're slower, but you can put a Kubuntu/Ubuntu/Xubuntu/whatever install on a 4 gig flash drive, and leave a couple of gigs for 'personal files and settings'. Let them get used to it, and if it works out, just install on their machine and copy the settings over from the flash drive.

The reason I'm saying this is that it sounds like you want to be able to 'explode' the windows partition into full size on the hard drive if they want to give up on Linux. You could script something (maybe) from a flash drive to do it, but from the boot loader itself would be harder. Also, Vista and later OSes are VERY picky about partition sizing.

[Junk Parts]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

I'm a fan of Mint Gloria Linux. Its installer works great with Xp Home. All you do is cold boot the PC with the Mint cd that you burnt from your download in the PC. During the install pick the option to install the Linux side by side with windows. Give it 10 gigs of hard drive space. Now after its installed, on the boot you just pick wich OS you want to run for that session and it boots it. Keep in mind that Linux can be broken too if you try hard enough.

[NxB]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

You are going to have to let them dual boot. OEMs write custom software for stuff like that. Most restores wipe your disk too. I try not to use them so people can keep their files.

[KeriJane]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

Hi NxB

I'm OK with wiping out files.
But the part about writing custom software might slow me down a little.

Funny thing is, my late father probably could have wrote something that would work. He used to write his own DOS programs!
Or at least extensively modify existing ones.
He would have loved Linux, especially at the Command Line.
Oddly, he couldn't get used to point 'n click Windows. Or figure out the VCR.


WWDD,
Keri

[bgavin]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

What about a virtual machine?

[NxB]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

You can try modifying one of the OEM's restore programs but you have to figure out how it works. They mostly just decompress an archive with all of the files. The bootloader only loads their program. Something like BartPE might help you. Its a lot of work when dual booting will be just fine.

[gonzo0815]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

Acronis Truen Image does all what you want, and it isn`t that expensive. Some oem use it too.

[toastygoodness]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

yeah i like acronis... or you could getem a vm like bgavin says... or better yet virtualize windows?

[i4004]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

keri, you want linux to restore windows?
hehe...

and if they can't do reinstall, i doubt virtual machine or acronis are solutions either....

what YOU could do(obviously not them) is install anew, clone to external hdd(yeap., they would need to buy external hdds) and restore when needed....

Store-bought PC's often have a restore partition

restore partition is good...untill whole hdd goes to hell....

aldo, you do know of system restore option, in xp, right?
start->programs->accessories->system tools...

just make restore point on day one...

[KeriJane]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

Hi i4004

Oh yes, I'm very aware of Windows System Restore.

Unfortunately, nearly all modern viruses erase all the Restore points and go on to disable System restore!

At least on all the stuff I've had to fix for people lately. Only ONE system still had System Restore functional.

I suspect that there's been a recent rash of bad stuff out because all these systems had AVG, Norton or McAffee running. Even my manager at work got the "Windows AntiVirus Pro" on his office computer!

He asked me what that popup ballon was.... I replied, Better call IT!

Glad that isn't me.

So, I'd really like to have a NON-Windows OS available to just copy over a whole working copy of the Windows drive.

Thanks for the info,
Keri

[Junk Parts]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

Keri I used a progie in the past called "File Protect 2000." I used it in windows to make files invisible and unaccessable by any user who didn't know the password for the fp2000. I don't know but you may be able to use this progie to protect windows system files from a rude user too. It may also be possible to run this progie outside of windows to protect everything on the HD. I just had another thought! Is there any setting in their bios to block them out of making changes to the Root programs on the HD? I bought a used work station that was set up this way in the past and it drove me nuts until I found the setting to gain access to the HD for reprogramming.

[seanc]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

Even my manager at work got the "Windows AntiVirus Pro" on his office computer!

He asked me what that popup ballon was.... I replied, Better call IT!

Glad that isn't me.

No, that's me! Ugh, it's such a pain to remove.

I spent a day tidying up a laptop for a customer, had it all working nicely.
Next day they call "Windows says I have a virus".

I know that isn't Windows

AVG, McAfee and Norton 360 have failed me so far.

NOD32 Antivirus is fairing well.

Edit: I got distracted with virus trauma.

Here's how things kind of work for imaging at my office:
Windows deployment server, network boot Windows PE, image, done.

What you could do is put Windows PE on a separate partition, let the user run through the wizard to re-image their PC.

Setting it all up is a faff, but once setup, it works.

----
Another anecdote I just remembered - I was called out to replace a machine that was having trouble booting, the hard drive sounded like it was failing, it was a horrible cheap machine.

I got there and the machine was running fine.
I asked the customer when it started working, he said "I kept pressing buttons and it started working, I didn't know what I was doing, I just kept pressing next."

The customer had managed to press F11, enter the restore partition, format his HDD and restore it to the factory image and lose all of the work that he hadn't backed up. He had been given a pen drive to back up to, of course, this had lapsed... for a few years.

[bgavin]

Re: A Question for the Linux Crowd

It is much simpler to use an external USB drive and Ghost.
Before the system is corrupted, split the volume into System and Data.
Move the user MyDocuments to D:\Users\<idsid>\MyDocuments and leave their profile on System.

When the system becomes corrupt, restore it from a Ghost image.
You can keep the image on the D:\Ghosts directory if you choose, but this exposes the system to the hard drive as single point of failure.

It all depends upon how much redundancy is required in the system.
I personally prefer two internal drives.