A Good Heatsink Compound??

[stevo1210]

Hello Everyone,

I have an Intel Pentium 4 530J 3Ghz Socket 775 CPU which i need to re-install very soon. I recently returned my Gigabyte GA-8i945P-G motherboard for repair and i'm picking it very soon since the repair is now complete.... luckily I got a new replacement motherboard.

The problem now is that the thermal compound on the CPU has dried out completely and i need to purcahse a new tube of heatsink compound for better heat conductivity.
I'm planning to use a silicone based heatsink plaster compound which my local computer and electronics store sells.
The tube costs about $6 and i have used it before on various P4 CPUs and the outcomes were great and I had no problems with it.

Is this a good choice for thermal paste or should i use something else?


Thanks.

[gonzo0815]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

Yes, cheap silicone mixed with some Al-oxid should work. The only problem with this, is the building up of hot spots afer some time (about a few years).
But IMHO most tim`s are affected from this.
The only i know wich should not do that, ist the Arctic Alumina, at least the mfk stated this.
But you must care if you want to pop the HSF, as this Arctic tim are very very sticky after a while.
Any way, the Alumina and the Ceramique are IMHO very good thermal transfer interfaces, if you want soemthing good.

The Arctic Silver is IMHO not that great, but your mailage may vary.

[WNG]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

I always found it obscene that they charge so much for a tiny syringe of perhaps 1/2 oz. of compound.
Yes, you don't need a lot, but the price/profit margin must be insane.
If it contained ground diamond dust, I could see the justification, as diamond is the best heat conductor.

In a pinch, you can march down to your friendly neighborhood autoparts store and buy a CAN of Permatex aluminum-based anti-seize compound for the same price.
Their copper-powdered version is for high temperature environments, which probably suits hot cpus even better.

It's basically fine metal particles suspended in silicone.
Same care involved in its use as it's conductive like Arctic Alumina or Silver.
Very little is required.

I have a big ol' tube of Dow Corning industrial silicone heatsink compound I picked up from work ten years ago. Thick stuff, and the tube is still half full.

[stevo1210]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

I bought my thermal compound today. Instead of buying the cheap $6 tube, I went to a computer shop and bought 2 tubes of Arctic Silver Ceramique. 2.5 grams of Arctic silver ceramique cost me $6 but Arctic silver ceramique is much better than the cheap thermal compound.
Does Arctic Silver Ceramique stay wet all the time or will it dry up eventually?

A little accident also happened when i was removing the heatsink compound with a knife (Now that i've learnt my lesson, next time im using hot water and something softer than a knife to clean it) . Unfortunately, there are a few scuff marks and scratches on my heatsink now, will applying Arctic silver fill up those scratches and not let air in? or do I have to go and buy a new heatsink?

Thanks.

[pentium]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

I think I'll start using the cans of compund.
Keep it secret but I reuee all the compound I have.
What ccan you get at canadian tire?

[308nato]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

A little accident also happened when i was removing the heatsink compound with a knife (Now that i've learnt my lesson, next time im using hot water and something softer than a knife to clean it) . Unfortunately, there are a few scuff marks and scratches on my heatsink now, will applying Arctic silver fill up those scratches and not let air in? or do I have to go and buy a new heatsink?

Thanks.

For scraping off a used oem thermal pad I use a little carbon fiber knife I have (any plastic knife would do) and some isopropyl alcohol. I don't know if they sell it in Australia but I finish up with some Soft-Scrub (a finely abrasive all purpose cleaner available at any grocery store or Wally World type retailer) and warm water. I still use Arctic Silver3 as I think it works better than 5.

What Arctic silver says to do for a "rough" surface is to put a little on and wipe it off once (filling in the rough spots) before the actual application. I use a Glad sandwich bag with my finger shoved down into the corner tightly....very smooth applicator

[WNG]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

I think I'll start using the cans of compund.
Keep it secret but I reuee all the compound I have.
What ccan you get at canadian tire?

this is what you look for or ask the parts counter guy:
Last 3 items in the link...
http://www.permatex.com/products/aut...lubricants.htm

[Fizzycapola]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

Last time I checked Arctic Silver 5 was the best performing CPU compound.

I see theres Arctic Alumina for long term use without drying out. But reduced performance maybe a waste to buy this instead of AS5 and just keep system so cool that no dryout possible.

You can make your own though if you have microlized/atomoized silver dust and a suspension compound. 99.5% silver paint is possilbe to use or mix with cheap compound for added performance.

I used to add my own pure silver to my compounds and it seemed to work. But these
days I try not to be so abnormal and just put a thin credit card width layer - AS5 or AS3 on the die and thats it. I read about re-application for long term use, but I haven't done much re-applying, if you keep your CPU well under 50oC I don't think the compound should evaporate much maybe - maybe this is why haven't needed to re-apply.

There is one which states it outperforms it - Coolabority, which is a pure liquid metal compound - gallium based - very fluid,conductive and corrosive. I tried this with aluminium contrary to the instructions and it worked great (2 degrees cooler than AS5) until a few weeks, now the heatsink has hundreds of tiny holes where it's eaten away at it.

[Fizzycapola]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

For removing compound I use nail varnish remover, or cologne, sprayed on and tissued off, several times.

I also read some people prefer to use Marmite or Toothpaste as a compound. I tried toothpaste but I don't think it was the right sort it didn't cool much and removed it after a few minutes after booting.

[gonzo0815]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

Removing is easy with acetone, but there are numerouse ways to get ride of it.

I personally are not a fan of copper past etc. from car shops,as most of those (well i have all sorts of this at home...) do have very nasty copounds in it (wich i only tolerate in the engine part of my car) and the particle size is not to my liking.
So now, how mutch systems do you install, that you need a large can and mußt safe those few bucks?
Ghee think abouth it, if you want to safe some bucks, use that compounds wich are supplied with the HSF. I have a lot of those Silimore packages, and belife it or not, the difference in temperature is for most people negligible.
You can obtain most compounds in larger cans, if required.

Neither Arctic Alumina nor Arctic silver are elektrically conductive period. I have not measured my copper compound i use for the ignition sparks in my car and the other hot screews, but i hope that is at least a little conductive ;-)


Regarding ASS5, i realy don`t like the new formula, and have stoped using it. ATM i am using in most cases AS Ceramique, and i think the syring will last a while. I have paid abouth 3€ for it.

The Longterm problem is not due to evaporation. The particles do move and build up some higher spots, and some uncovered ones. I have seen this in many older power transistors and on older CPU`s like Intel P1, AMD k6/2 and probably on my GFX card with Zalman VF700.

I am tempted to try Collaboratorie`s Liquid metall, but i am afraid, that it will form an amalgam like alloy with any other metall, and this would reduce the performance dramatically over time. And i am not a fan of regularly poping the HSF (as it is large and not that easy to mount on my board....).
But shure, for those who need 3°c this should be a must.

[willawake]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

i use label off for removing anything stubborn from a heatsink but always follow with alcohol.
http://www.cramolin.de/spezen.htm#labeloff
but usually i use something plastic to scrape it off goo.

i apply arctic silver (presently ceramique) with a torn business card (usually whatever loser i met recently). alternatively if i did not meet any losers recently i would use the tabs underneath the lid of a cigarette packet.

i usually avoid any tubes or packets of stuff included in hsf boxes. i had a terrible experience with i think it was a thermaltake tube. it was very greasy and didnt clean off very easy at all (especially on my hands). for AS @ only 3 euro i seriously doubt i would try to make my own.......

[bgavin]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

I used to do a very thin flim of Artic Silver, but found the heat transfer wasn't the best.

When I build a subwoofer cabinet, the glue I use "squishes out" of the joint. I'm sure a CPU/HSF operates the same way. To completely fill the void between the HSF and the chip, there should be some squish-out. Otherwise, the layer of paste is not thick enough to insure full contact between two surfaces.

The trick is not using too much paste, and getting too much squish out.

[kc8adu]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

contrary to what as claims it is conductive.
i have seen several amd athlon xp chips given up for dead where overuse of as was the problem.a shot of carb cleaner and they are good again.
thats how i got a nforce2 mobo and 3200+ chip for $5 at a hamfest.
bigger the blob better the job does not apply to thermal compound.

[willawake]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

umm if you have to fill a void between the hsf and chip then your retention mechanism is BS. the paste is to fill the tiny defects in the hsf surface. the best conductor of heat is metal not paste.

[gonzo0815]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

I have had no problems with conduction & AS compound. But shure, there are a lot silver compounds, wich are conductive.

For hte later CPU`s, i take usually alittle more, so that the heapsreader is completely covered. The rest is squeezed out by the HSF retention.

[bgavin]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

I wasn't implying or encouraging a sloppy job, only noting that there will be squeeze out when the two hard surfaces come in contact with any intervening material.

I have noticed that installing a paste film of Artic Silver with a razor blade gave me X temp deltas. Removing the HSF and reapplying just a bit more AS reduced the temps noticeably.

I use massive Alpha heat sinks on Athlon builds, and as long as I get an 11C delta, I consider it a success.

[Galvanized]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...6&page=2&pp=20 Nothing has changed since I offered this post to you.
I have read several good comparison tests of TIM and truth is there really is not that much difference between the top compounds.
Zalman, ThermalRight and CoolerMaster Premium all use the older formula of Shin Etsu as their base, thinners have been added for ease of application.

Proper application of TIM, ie: no air bubbles trapped and matching flat surfaces are the point of good heat transfer.
Do not polish the surfaces, overclockes.com did testing and found it increased temps 1oC. Introduce TIM to a virgin surface, not one that has been molested by Brass-O or Mother's Polish.

[gonzo0815]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

Your absolut right.
And yes, polishing is not a good idear.
I have rread something baout this, a guy who wanted to build a laser cooing unit.
As he polished the surfaces, his thermal problems rised. He has come to the conclusion, that anything above a 400 sandpaper will reduce heat transfer.
Ok 400 is pretty rough, havent tried it by myself.

[Fizzycapola]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

Yeah 400 I think is far from mirror finish. Internet sites mantrically suggest creating a pure mirror surface using progression upto 2000grit and polishing compounds. This probably isn't scientific I'm sure theres a word for these type of people just can't think of it. I always assumed a purely reflective surface has more chance to reflect heat back into the CPU than a dull surface.

Back to compounds...
Interestingly on the compound front I was reading about this Zerotherm heatsink, apparently the pad/compound that comes with it outperforms AS5 by as much as 3oC
under load, the review shows a tiny low profile heatsink not much larger than intel stock cooler meet same performance as the top of the range Super Cooler/Big Typhoon!!! again suggesting these gigantic coolers are just for looks and hold no scientific performance optimization or much thought behind them. Much like how my Globalwin sinks outperformned much larger Thermaltake sinks, I think alot of these things are tailored to appeal to the middleclass halfwitt with more money than scientific education it seems.

On another note, this sink has automatic thermally controlled fan, which I feel is a superior solution than motherboard control, my friend had bios controlled fan, really it's just a big joke, it's up and down like a yo-yo so impractical and stupid gimmick, like so much these days.

Ref:
http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/cf900/index5.php
http://www.candccentral.co.uk/acatal...PU_Cooler.html

[Shroomie]

Re: A Good Heatsink Compound??

I'm sure theres a word for these type of people just can't think of it.

Perfectionists? Or just plain anal?

400's good enough for me, if it doesn't come smoother than that.