Computer fan noise and maintenance

[stevo1210]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

For example, Yate Loon fans, which I've replaced too many of to count. The most common Yate Loon is a sleeve bearing fan with poor lube and a lifespan of about 2-4 years. It'll do fine at hour 1, then progressively get worse and lockup before the rest of the system was ready to die.

Yate Loon fans are bad?? I have a Thermaltake PSU with a fan made by Yate Loon electronics. I better keep an eye on it then.... before it fails and causes massive failure

[999999999]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

There are worse fans than Yate Loon but a few things seem to add to their demise.

Non-vertical orientations shouldn't use a typical sleeve-bearing design.
Cheaper version of Yate Loon fan is used to cut costs, they also make some dual ball bearing fans (or did, I haven't checked on this recently) but those are seldom used. There seems to be too much variability in the manufacturing process (or lack of as much QC) such that some might last reasonably long but others don't.

If you have a reasonably good quality specimen and relube it periodically, it can last for many years, but I don't think anyone should have to play this lottery or be saddled with having to relube fans when there are other options.

[stevo1210]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

There are worse fans than Yate Loon but a few things seem to add to their demise.

Non-vertical orientations shouldn't use a typical sleeve-bearing design.
Cheaper version of Yate Loon fan is used to cut costs, they also make some dual ball bearing fans (or did, I haven't checked on this recently) but those are seldom used. There seems to be too much variability in the manufacturing process (or lack of as much QC) such that some might last reasonably long but others don't.

If you have a reasonably good quality specimen and relube it periodically, it can last for many years, but I don't think anyone should have to play this lottery or be saddled with having to relube fans when there are other options.

I'll check out what type of Yate Loon fan I have in my Thermaltake PSU. Unfortunately I can't take the PSU apart to oil the fan because it's under warranty

[999999999]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Phooey on warranties.

Good fan plus good recap (if/when the time comes) will produce a better PSU than if Thermaltake replaced it someday.

[stevo1210]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

I also find that the old Sunon fans that I have here are very quiet and powerful. Even after 7 years of use, it still works perfectly with no issues. I haven't even bothered to oil it yet.

[willawake]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Non-vertical orientations shouldn't use a typical sleeve-bearing design.

upside down vertical orientation is giving me problem with sunon fans. ie for graphics card use to blow down on the chip

[pentium]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

I have (had) ELINA fans cooling the board cage in my Crimson deskside.

Each were 540ma and at least six inches across but they moved air and were pretty quiet. Their flaw however is that they seize up over a period of disuse.
Out of the whole fan assembly above, only one still worked. the rest had seized up or just refused to spin anymore.

[linuxguru]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Just trying out Labelle 102 gear-oil (often used in model railroading and other hobbies) to relube a few CPU/PSU fans with seized/sticky sleeve bearings. It's a relatively thick, viscous oil, and doesn't spread or run easily - so it takes a while to penetrate/spread over all the contact surfaces. But things quieten down and run very smoothly once that happens - it takes about 24-48 hours of running in to reap the benefits.

Not sure about how long it will last before drying up, but I'd guess that it will be a lot longer than WD-40, based on the viscosity. I'd say it's about as thick as Mobil-1 15w50, but not quite as prone to seeping out through rubber seals/gaps.

[McLovin]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Hello all,

I found this informative thread through a search for fan lubage. Excuse my noobishness, but I am trying to find the precise type of long lasting lube that the member 999999999 is talking of. I found another thread here which has posts that air of 999999999's style so I presume that they are posts by the same member In it, he mentions mixing heavy weight oil with grease. I am wondering what particular brands are recommended or how to tell when the drop point is appropriate. Harvey here mentioned using anti-seizure compound, would this mix with heavy synthetic oil? Also would the finished product be applicable using an eyedropper or other fine application device?

Finally, I've read a lot of talk about sleeve bearings, but do ball bearings and the fancy "fluid dynamic" types respond to lube or even require it?

[999999999]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Proper viscosity depends on how worn the bearing is. Until someone mentions they're lubing as preventive maintenance I tend to assume it's a fan already showing signs of a problem, IE- bearing already worn and running nearly dry.

In that case the gap is larger than it once was and typically worn in an elliptical shape. A thicker film strenght is needed and the viscosity as it relates to drop point means you want something just thin enough to flow, but to stay in the bearing as much as possible. The drop point should be at or just below the ambient temp.

Particular brands of oil and grease aren't necessary, but I use Mobile 1 Synthetic grease (comes in a tube cartridge at many auto parts stores) and 5W30 synthetic oil mix on fans not so worn, or 30wt oil mix on the worst worn. If I were to instead use only a single oil it would be roughly 80wt gear oil. These aren't typically sold in a tiny quantity like you'd need for a fan but come in handy for lubing and oiling other things as well.

I suppose you could apply it with an eyedropper but I grab whatever is handy (after wiping the tip clean) like a toothpick, X-acto knife blade, jeweler's screwdriver tip, a piece of wire, etc.

Ball bearings don't tend to act up until they're extremely old and the grease has hardened, or the bearings are shot from excessive wear. They don't respond nearly as well to lubing and it can make them even louder, though in an emergency getting the thickest lube possible into one might keep it running for a bit longer while you source a replacement.

Supposed fancy "fluid dynamic" and other trademarks are still sleeve bearings and do respond similarly to less colorfully named sleeve bearings. However in a better fan relubing it shouldn't be necessary nearly as soon in it's life, I tend to preventatively lube the lower quality fans, especially thin high RPM fans like on video cards, etc, moreso than the higher quality, well balanced lower RPM fans.

Some fans are poor enough, even some when new, that it is apparent they won't do well even if properly lubed. In that case the solution is continually relubing them periodically or replacing them. I prefer the latter but sometimes due to a unique fan the former is worthwhile.

Similarly with any fan it may be as well to replace it if you can easily find a higher quality replacement. Even if it's still new, if you see some poor quality sleeve bearing fan on the exhaust of a PSU for example, I'd go ahead and swap something better in instead of waiting for it to act up. For PSU exhaust (typically 80mm) I tend to use NMB, Nidec, Sanyo Denki, among other major branded dual ball bearing alternatives. If low noise matters more than anything else then I'd tend to go with Panaflo, Papst, and I have a couple Sunons that have held up surprisingly well over the years but I preemptively lubed those.

In a pinch, if you just want to keep a fan running for a couple days till you can order and receive a replacement fan, even a drop of used oil off the car dipstick or whatever else is handy (even vegetable oil) will suffice.

[999999999]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Note that my recommendations for lube pertain only to fans without true reservoirs outside the bearing like a common fan in a PC. With more elaborate, larger more expensive fans like you'd find in a HVAC unit, etc, there is often a reservoir filled with (wadding?) felt or similar to hold lube and in that case the lube should not be as thick, probably 30wt or lower.

[Fizzycapola]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

I read about badly made fans can transmit electrical noise into motherboards.

Been trying to think of a way to filter fans by attaching capacitors. If not only for the fact I have an excess of some 100+ capacitors to use up. I've cut my fans cable and been soldering capacitors inline but they don't run. Anyone know how I should go about this, I cannot read electrical schematics.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

The usual electric filtering circuit is a LC or CLC (AKA phi filter commonly found on o/p stage in PSu`s) filter. The coil should be in series, the C should be in parallel.

The caps value depends on the frequency , but i think 100nF and may be an 1-220uF should work.
The value of the coil depends on the frequency too, but the rule of thumb is the more inductance the better.

[999999999]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Fan noise transmitted to a motherboard is of no consequence. The typical regulation stage before a fan isolates it but even without that the noise caused by the switching (main) PSU, the switching subcircuits on a motherboard, and the noise from the powered components plugged into the board make fan noise a rather trivial noise source.

Plus, fan noise is not at an especially high frequency making it all the more easily rejected by the faster regulation stages. Nothing important runs direclty off the 12V rail and depends on ultra clean power. However if you are still concerned then the answer is to just replace the fan, as a badly designed fan tends to have worse problems than electrical noise.

If we were talking about analog circuits, the fan connected after the last regulation stage then it would be more significant but if that were the case the resolution is to remove it from that point in the circuit, isolating it's power supply. It seems unlikely anything depending on critical analog signals would even be designed like this, if it were it might otherwise be such a piece of junk it isn't even worth the bother to try to improve it.

[acstech]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Back to lubes for a minute, I use Hoppe's gun oil, and have had great results with it, particularly in sleeve bearing applications. Usually I'll just replace the fan if it's making noise, but if it's an oddball like a laptop fan or something, or the customer is in a hurry, the Hoppe's works great.

http://www.hoppes.com/products/lubricating_oil.html

I dont like using greases. They tend to squish out of the bearing and end up in a wad on either end, with the fan again making noise.

[kc8adu]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

just did a preventive lube on a yate loon psu fan.
it got mobil 1 15w50 left over from an oilchange on my z1r.
this bike does not consume any oil between changes so the few oz left goes in my zoom spout oiler.

[999999999]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

Back to lubes for a minute, I use Hoppe's gun oil, and have had great results with it, particularly in sleeve bearing applications. Usually I'll just replace the fan if it's making noise, but if it's an oddball like a laptop fan or something, or the customer is in a hurry, the Hoppe's works great.

http://www.hoppes.com/products/lubricating_oil.html

I dont like using greases. They tend to squish out of the bearing and end up in a wad on either end, with the fan again making noise.

It is important that the grease-oil mix be in a semi liquid state, a drop point below that of the temp (of the bearing actually but who is able to measure this easily? so I say room temp). With that being the viscosity it is wicked into the bearingway and then having some remain on the ends rather than squished out is good, both as a reservoir and to reduce thrust washer friction.

You can tell the oil-grease mix is too thick if you power the fan with the bearing plug off and see the lube form into a glob at one side of the shaft instead of being stirred around in a smooth swirled pool-like shape (though a tiny bit sitting directly on top of the shaft end may end up as a smooth round glob which is ok.

I should add that achieving this smooth shape may also require using a larger quantity of lube than someone might apply if it were a thin oil and it might still tend to make a smooth round glob on the side of the shaft when it's a good viscosity IF the fan has high RPM, but it would be a very smooth sight where much still rests on the bearing end and shaft.

I suppose it's harder to explain (or that I've never really tried to before) than to see the difference yourself while doing it, that the lube remains covering the edge between the thrust washer and the bearing instead of being scooted off to one side by the rotating shaft and washer.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

For all that trouble I think a drop or two of 90wt gear oil will suffice.

.

[999999999]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

For all that trouble I think a drop or two of 90wt gear oil will suffice.

.

Yes 90wt gear oil is ok, though it's not trouble really to do it just to understand the right viscosity. Make a batch and put it in a container and you have a lifetime supply.

[McLovin]

Re: Computer fan noise and maintenance

My hat's off to you, 9x9, excellent input. I am a big believer in 1oz prevention = 1lb cure so I am lubing before the trouble starts, but this is great to have in my notes for keeping the unique fans going. If I understand correctly, for the ~annual maintenance, 80W gear oil is okay and lightly worn should get the synthetic grease and 5W30 mixture. Interesting about testing viscosity with the open plug, can't wait to try it out. If it turns out to glob to the side (at lower RPM), what is the best way to remove the "bad batch" from it?