LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

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  • budm
    Badcaps Legend
    • Feb 2010
    • 40746
    • USA

    #161
    Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

    Measure the dcv between the two legs of the cap then double the value for the Voltage of the cap.
    Ceramic cap common failure mode is shorted circuit.
    The capacitance of the ceramic cap is affected by the applied Voltage (beside the temperature). So you must be careful as to what you choose to put in.
    https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...1cafebd52c.pdf
    http://www.murata.com/en-us/support/...mlcc/char/0005

    https://ec.kemet.com/ceramic-capacit...tage-ask-fae-1


    https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/a...ex.mvp/id/5527
    From MAXIM notes:
    'Note, first, that as the package size increases, the capacitance variation with applied DC voltage decreases, and substantially.
    A second interesting point is that, within a package size and ceramic type, the voltage rating of the capacitors seems often to have no effect. I would have expected that using a 25V-rated capacitor at 12V would have less variation than a 16V-rated capacitor under the same bias. Looking at the traces for X5Rs in the 1206 package, we see that the 6.3V-rated part does indeed perform better than its siblings with higher voltage ratings. If we had looked over a broader range of capacitors, we would have found this behavior to be common. The sample set of capacitors that I was considering do not exhibit this behavior as much as the general population of ceramic capacitors.
    A third observation is that, for the same package, the X7Rs always have better voltage sensitivity than X5Rs. I do not know if this holds true universally, but it did seem so in my investigation.
    Using the data from this graph, Table 2 shows how much the X7R capacitances decreased with a 12V bias.'
    Last edited by budm; 08-24-2017, 10:12 AM.
    Never stop learning
    Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

    Inverter testing using old CFL:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

    Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
    http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

    TV Factory reset codes listing:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

    Comment

    • nwcs
      Badcaps Veteran
      • Dec 2015
      • 311
      • usa

      #162
      Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

      I am having problems finding the main board for this tv for a sn starting with DS3, I did however find and order one from shop jimmy that is for a tv that starts with DS4 but they could not tell me if it will be compatible. Does anyone know if it will work for a magnavox 46me313v/f7?

      Comment

      • Louis82
        Badcaps Veteran
        • Feb 2012
        • 240
        • USA

        #163
        Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

        Have you guys been able to find the Value or part number to order that cap location C3214?

        Thanks!

        Comment

        • R_J
          Badcaps Legend
          • Jun 2012
          • 9518
          • Canada

          #164
          Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

          See post #137

          Comment

          • freakytiki4u
            Coolest Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 130
            • United States

            #165
            Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

            I am also looking for the part# and/or UF and Voltage Ratings for that Surface Mount Cap C3214. If anyone has that, it sure would be nice of them to post it here. I can find similar caps on ebay and I usually buy from Digikey but I don't know what Voltage and UF Rating to order. Post 137 only says its a 270 Pizo Cap but that's not all the info needed for someone like me who is not a certified repair person of your degree (Respectfully)
            Last edited by freakytiki4u; 11-25-2018, 04:49 PM.

            Comment

            • budm
              Badcaps Legend
              • Feb 2010
              • 40746
              • USA

              #166
              Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

              10uF 25V MLCC.
              Never stop learning
              Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

              Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

              Inverter testing using old CFL:
              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

              Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
              http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

              TV Factory reset codes listing:
              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

              Comment

              • freakytiki4u
                Coolest Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 130
                • United States

                #167
                Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                Thank you so much Budm! You rock!

                Comment

                • Mr repair
                  Member
                  • Aug 2013
                  • 10
                  • usa

                  #168
                  Re: LF501EM5F No Power

                  hi guy,s working on a way to proof that the main CPU is bad on Emerson lf501em5f
                  i have a test for this butt need more info LOOKING for a service manual this for a set
                  with no stby led butt has stby on supply and if you force on supply all rails are up jump bl-on led,s are on need the manual

                  Comment

                  • akk944
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2012
                    • 60
                    • USA

                    #169
                    Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                    Hello, I'm having the same issue and have found the C3214 cap on my main board. What is the best way of confirming this cap is the problem before swapping it out with a multimeter. Do I need to check for the short as previously mentioned (got a little lost with the hot air gun).

                    Thanks! Sorry to bring up this old thread.


                    EDIT: I have a bad cap at c3214! confirmed by checking and comparing resistance with other caps on the board. With this being said, does the following look like a reasonable replacement? Original states 270pF while budm mentions 10uf?

                    https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...KDppzeEQ%3D%3D
                    Last edited by akk944; 05-05-2019, 08:08 PM. Reason: diagnosed issue, need help with replacement part

                    Comment

                    • budm
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 40746
                      • USA

                      #170
                      Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                      It is power supply filter cap so it will be 10uF not 270pf.
                      Never stop learning
                      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                      Inverter testing using old CFL:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                      TV Factory reset codes listing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                      Comment

                      • akk944
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2012
                        • 60
                        • USA

                        #171
                        Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                        Originally posted by budm
                        It is power supply filter cap so it will be 10uF not 270pf.


                        Ah so what's the cap citywidetvtech is referring to? I just want to be sure I order the right part before I spend 6 bucks on a 10 cent part. Of course, I could order both, but I don't want to mess anything up by using the wrong cap. Please let me know!

                        Thanks

                        Comment

                        • akk944
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2012
                          • 60
                          • USA

                          #172
                          Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                          If it's 10uF that I need, then how does this cap look?

                          https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...SnPCSGjIcIU%3D

                          Comment

                          • budm
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 40746
                            • USA

                            #173
                            Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                            1) Measure the dimension of the one you remove to see if it match the dimension of the replacement or not.
                            2) To verify if we are talking about the same C3214 or not, you need to check the resistant of the Not Grounded leg of the C3214 pin and the AMP +13v jumper wire of the power supply board, do the same against the ALL +3.3V jumper wire of the power supply board.
                            Last edited by budm; 05-06-2019, 11:16 AM.
                            Never stop learning
                            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                            Inverter testing using old CFL:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                            TV Factory reset codes listing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                            Comment

                            • R_J
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Jun 2012
                              • 9518
                              • Canada

                              #174
                              Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                              I looked up a BA4GU5G0201_3 board and schematic, See if this helps, in this case they use a 4.7µf , The other version board are likely slightly different.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by R_J; 05-06-2019, 05:14 PM.

                              Comment

                              • akk944
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2012
                                • 60
                                • USA

                                #175
                                Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                                budm,

                                I don't need to check from the power board right, I can just put one end on the AMP +13v of the main board and the other on the non grounded side of the resistor. What result am I looking for? It appears I have a short on one side from AMP +13V to the C3214 I am looking at, but it's tricky for me because I am a noob and have a digital multimeter. The only thing I tested was resistance from one end of the C3214 to the other and it seems to be significantly higher than any other resistor on the board (.30 on the 20M setting vs.01 on most of the other resistors). My board is a BA31T0G02013 so the schematic that R_J provided does not seem to help, but I could be wrong.

                                Your help is greatly appreciated!

                                Comment

                                • budm
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Feb 2010
                                  • 40746
                                  • USA

                                  #176
                                  Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                                  Put Meter on 20 or 200 Ohms scale, put one meter probe on the AMP +13v point, another probe on C3214 that is NOT connect to circuit GND (you know which pin that is, right?), if it shows around 1 Ohms or so then that C3214 is the filter cap for the AMP +13v power supply line.
                                  270pf will not be used for power supply filter cap, too small of capacitance.
                                  As you can see form RJ schematic, they will usually put more then cap in parallel as needed, if you trace out one end of the C3214, you will see that is connected in parallel with other caps that may or may be not installed on your board.
                                  The blank PCB can be stuffed to make many PCBA for the needed model of TV, so if the cap is not installed in particular PCBA then the schematic will label that part as 'Open'.
                                  Last edited by budm; 05-09-2019, 06:25 PM.
                                  Never stop learning
                                  Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                  Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                  Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                  Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                  http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                  TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                  Comment

                                  • akk944
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Aug 2012
                                    • 60
                                    • USA

                                    #177
                                    Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                                    Originally posted by budm
                                    Put Meter on 20 or 200 Ohms scale, put one meter probe on the AMP +13v point, another probe on C3214 that is NOT connect to circuit GND (you know which pin that is, right?), if it shows around 1 Ohms or so then that C3214 is the filter cap for the AMP +13v power supply line.
                                    270pf will not be used for power supply filter cap, too small of capacitance.
                                    As you can see form RJ schematic, they will usually put more then cap in parallel as needed, if you trace out one end of the C3214, you will see that is connected in parallel with other caps that may or may be not installed on your board.
                                    The blank PCB can be stuffed to make many PCBA for the needed model of TV, so if the cap is not installed in particular PCBA then the schematic will label that part as 'Open'.
                                    Budm, no I'm not sure which pin is not connected to circuit ground. I was trying to figure that out by trying either end. I don't THINK my C3214 is in parallel with anything else, but it's hard to tell. I could be wrong. Please see picture of my board and C3214 attached. Finally, my meter has 20M, 2000K, 200K, 20K, 2000, 200. When I put it on the 20 or 200, it doesnt look like I have any sort of connect between AMP +13v and the resistor. Just shows '1'... doesn't even move. This changes when I go to the higher settings.

                                    Thanks!
                                    Attached Files

                                    Comment

                                    • budm
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Feb 2010
                                      • 40746
                                      • USA

                                      #178
                                      Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                                      Originally posted by akk944
                                      Budm, no I'm not sure which pin is not connected to circuit ground. I was trying to figure that out by trying either end. I don't THINK my C3214 is in parallel with anything else, but it's hard to tell. I could be wrong. Please see picture of my board and C3214 attached. Finally, my meter has 20M, 2000K, 200K, 20K, 2000, 200. When I put it on the 20 or 200, it doesnt look like I have any sort of connect between AMP +13v and the resistor. Just shows '1'... doesn't even move. This changes when I go to the higher settings.

                                      Thanks!
                                      Looking at your picture, so how come C3214 is not removed yet to find out if the shorted circuit go away or not when C3214 is removed?
                                      As you can see it is also connected in parallel with smaller cap C3208, c3207 3209 are not installed.
                                      Since the cap is still in place, please check resistance between GND and P-ON +21V to see it shows really low resistance, more likely that your board version use C3214 for the P-ON+21V power supply line, we need to verify.
                                      If it is connected to P-0N+21V line then it will be 4.7uF 35V (min) and it will be the same circuit that RJ provided..
                                      Attached Files
                                      Last edited by budm; 05-10-2019, 09:13 PM.
                                      Never stop learning
                                      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                      Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                      TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                      Comment

                                      • akk944
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Aug 2012
                                        • 60
                                        • USA

                                        #179
                                        Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                                        Originally posted by budm
                                        Looking at your picture, so how come C3214 is not removed yet to find out if the shorted circuit go away or not when C3214 is removed?
                                        As you can see it is also connected in parallel with smaller cap C3208, c3207 3209 are not installed.
                                        Since the cap is still in place, please check resistance between GND and P-ON +21V to see it shows really low resistance, more likely that your board version use C3214 for the P-ON+21V power supply line, we need to verify.
                                        If it is connected to P-0N+21V line then it will be 4.7uF 35V (min) and it will be the same circuit that RJ provided..


                                        ....one year later, Quarantine has finally given me time to look at this again.

                                        Not sure how I figured that the short without the 3214 removed. I'm looking at it now and I checked the resistance across each cap nearby and compared it to the C3214. All of them are extremely low compared to the C3214.

                                        However, I did get 536 ohms when I checked resistance between the C3214 and ground as described in your pictured. All the other caps nearby are right around 600 ohms when grounded the same way. Not sure the relevance of doing that, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

                                        Nearby caps I checked: C3213, C3205, C3212, AND C3211

                                        Does this confirm the C3214 is bad or do I still need to remove it? I will go ahead and remove it if that's the next step, but want to make sure there is no further troubleshooting that can be done with it on

                                        Thanks!
                                        Last edited by akk944; 04-10-2020, 07:36 AM.

                                        Comment

                                        • akk944
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2012
                                          • 60
                                          • USA

                                          #180
                                          Re: LF501EM5F No Power, Chirping/Beeping Transformer

                                          Delete
                                          Last edited by akk944; 04-10-2020, 07:36 AM. Reason: duplicate post

                                          Comment

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