Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

[goontron]

To preface, this is 100% my fault. I installed the plug in the dead of winter, and i didn't manage to torque anything to spec... (off site images warning)

This is what happens when the cord that powers all 50 amps of a mobile home gets pulled out of the plug assembly.

This really is a shit design. The live(s) should disconnect before the return, but US plug standards so...

Yep. You lose neutral first! It started with Neutral getting pulled, then next came the red phase. As you can see, white has been warm for some time....

Heres the extent of the damage, the controller of an evap cooler. Some blown fuses otherwise.

Real lucky on this one!

Here's the MOV since the one on the surge suppressor did jack for shit!

I think i might make jewelry out of it.... It already has a hole punched in it!

Here's the surge suppressor that was running the AV system. (all 120-240v systems)

It did its job. And without starting a fire!


Not much damage to speak of.


No load disconnect?


This one was on countertop duty what for the microwave and whatnot.

Load disconnect. Good! A little soot. Not teabag!


Hmm. On the older side for sure.... Did its job! I ripped the trace.... Oops.

This bastard did its damndest to burn the place down! This is what ran my bench.

Nice soot. No disconnect here either!


Jesus fuck! I don't think the thermal fuses are real here....


Nope! That's why it blew sparks that lit my bowl of cotton buds on fire.


Now for the protectors that did jack shit for all. Belkin. This is what the evap was plugged into!

Belkin. A white and a black one. Both the same (lack of) failure mode!


Nope. Not the boards fault!

Sadly, the black one was powering my Radios, both Ham and broadcast. The ham radios switch modes swallowed it and burped, while the Yamaha receiver was saved by a line noise filter i installed that included surge protection. It clamped and blew the fuse. I pulled the module and bypassed it, but after testing, it would seem to still work, surge and all, so i reinstalled it. My furnace i thought had blown the trafo. But i found a note scribbled in pencil on the sheet metal about an edison screw fuse service center in the air-space above the furnace. The 15 amp fuse had blown. I replaced it and all was good.


Now for the "surge suppressor" that ran my 13/5 Centimeter packet and part 15 data wireless "rack"

*cough* i'm an idiot *cough* This had a shit-ton of switch mode "Wall Warts" plugged in. They all are rated 110-240v. No damage here! I got lucky. This won't do jack shit for surges! Make sure your surge suppressors, are surge suppressors! Sadly, this is dead as well as i had to break the case to open it.

If i can find the fuses (and i'm asked) i will post those as well.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

I have a surge protector that just has a single MOV with a fuse in series... it is a surge protector, alas there's no way to tell if it's still surge protecting or not...

I have this other surge protector that has an LED that indicates whether it's surge protecting or not. Turns out it's just hooked up to power and has no bearing of the status of the surge protection. The MOV actually looks like it's still good...

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

These surge protector are real shit I feel real safe

So what surge protector are left that really works

[CapLeaker]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

Geez goon, that really sucks. Luckily I gave up my trailer and the truck 8 years ago. But I miss my nights hamming inside that shoe box parked on a hill very close to the ocean calling CQ. Good luck getting all that repaired!

[stj]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

plug should have had a good cable-grip.
also it should have been locking.

like this:

[stj]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

These surge protector are real shit I feel real safe

So what surge protector are left that really works

they are for spikes, not a continuous voltage.

[goontron]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

plug should have had a good cable-grip.
also it should have been locking.

like this:
[img]

Now, you see, that's one i would trust. Instead we have https://www.amazon.com/30-50A-BLK-Ra.../dp/B00GRTSRSK

Looks sturdy, eh?

Geez goon, that really sucks. Luckily I gave up my trailer and the truck 8 years ago. But I miss my nights hamming inside that shoe box parked on a hill very close to the ocean calling CQ. Good luck getting all that repaired!

Think we got some terms wrong here, don't worry, we confuse the canadians who come down here to Wy during hunting season as well

Mobile/Manufactured homes are called trailers here, and pull behind trailers are called campers....

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

Now, you see, that's one i would trust. Instead we have https://www.amazon.com/30-50A-BLK-Ra.../dp/B00GRTSRSK
...

Mehhhh. The picture stj posted was an IEC-309 connector, basically for industrial use rather than home use. This would be the closest US equivalent AC plug:



FWIW, Hubbell, who makes the connector pictured above also makes and sells IEC-309 connectors. IEC-309 connectors are reasonably available in the US. If you've been in a McDonald's in the past 5 or 20 years you've probably seen IEC-309 connectors in their kitchen area, like these:



The real advantage IEC-309 connectors have over regular Twist-Lok connectors is that they are, in varying degrees depending on the type, moisture-proof. But they still have to be hand-wired, like a Twist-Lok or the appliance type you pictured.

[stj]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

yes, the minimum is splashproof, the highest are potentially submersible!
and they all lock.

they cost nothing like that robbery you posted at Amazion btw!

oh yes, in Europe we use them on campers and caravans as standard - because they are rain-proof.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

yes, the minimum is splashproof, the highest are potentially submersible!
and they all lock....

The pic you posted above is in the higher end of degrees of watertightness. That ribbed ring screws onto the mating connector, and that gray ring is a nice rubber gasket. At the other end of the white shell (where the cable enters the shell) is another rubber gasket.

[goontron]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

yes, the minimum is splashproof, the highest are potentially submersible!
and they all lock.

they cost nothing like that robbery you posted at Amazion btw!

oh yes, in Europe we use them on campers and caravans as standard - because they are rain-proof.

Im not sure what that seller is smoking, but i got the one i have from an Osram retailer here in Wy for $17.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

Mehhhh. The picture stj posted was an IEC-309 connector, basically for industrial use rather than home use.

Depends on where you live and what you need...
Here in Germany we rarely use anything else than that.

There is the Perilex system wich looks like Schuko for 3 Phases but nobody uses them anymore. And if you have a 3 phase device, you need to change the plug anyways (they all come with the IEC these days)...
OF course those Perilex things look better in a living enviroment...

And you can still get both if you want to...

Besides: How do you americans connect your electric stove/cooctops??
Here we use 3x230VAC, 16A (because against Neutral, not each other)...

[goontron]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

^ the plug on amazon i posted... The only difference from using that on a stove and a mobile home is that its uprated to 60 amps for mobile home mains feed use... Stovetop use is 50 amps....

[stj]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

Here we use 3x230VAC, 16A (because against Neutral, not each other)...

in the u.k. we just have a single-phase 240v 45A wall outlet!
real power, none of that low voltage multi-phase crap!

[dmill89]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

These surge protector are real shit I feel real safe

So what surge protector are left that really works

Tripp-lite Isobars are pretty good, but pricy (from $25 for the basic 2-outlet unit to well over $100 for the large rack-mount units, with the popular 6-8 outlet units running from $50-$80). Most UPS units should offer decent protection as well.

[momaka]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

Besides: How do you americans connect your electric stove/cooctops??
Here we use 3x230VAC, 16A (because against Neutral, not each other)...

Similar as our driers: a beefed up plug, providing two phases, a neutral, and more recently a ground. Most US driers and ovens/cooktops are rated for 240 or 208V. Typically residential homes get two 120V phases 180 degrees apart (so phase-phase voltage is 240) from a center-tapped transformer (center tap is tied to neutral). But in commercial areas or buildings with 3-phase power, the voltage is 208V between any two phases, so that is used instead. That's why most US ovens and cooktops will say on the back they are rated for 208/240V.

As for the plug itself, it varies depending on the vintage of the home. But this page will show you some examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_c...r#Nomenclature

[momaka]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

they are for spikes, not a continuous voltage.

Shouldn't matter. After enough spikes, most MOVs will go short-circuit, so they definitely need some type of a breaker/disconnect/fuse circuit - preferably one that will disconnect the whole surge protector too and not just the MOVs, because otherwise, it will no longer be a surge suppressor.

[stj]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

Shouldn't matter. After enough spikes, most MOVs will go short-circuit, so they definitely need some type of a breaker/disconnect/fuse circuit - preferably one that will disconnect the whole surge protector too and not just the MOVs, because otherwise, it will no longer be a surge suppressor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQXecTM8yuo

[joshnz]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

I like our system here open neutral = low voltage

If earth bonding is bad electric shock hazard as the taps outside will become live with respect to ground.

We used to have 2 phase into houses one was continuous and the other was controlled for load shedding would run night store or hot water heater.
now we use one phase with a remote control. or use a smart meter.

in larger dwellings so 2 or more 2 or 3 phase will be found open neutral could expose the equipment in the dwelling to 415V but requires your neighbors to have lot's of power hungry devices. more of a issues for 2 phase supplies i think as floating neutral will balance better with 3 phase.

[goontron]

Re: Open Neutral you say? A story of carnage at Gooontrons house.

Well, just an update. The control transformer on the furnace puked. It got roasted by the looks of it... Im surprised it lasted more than a year.

As for 240v appliances, still none. Nat. gas is cheap. The cost of electricity went UP when we switched over to the wind turbine farm to the west of me. $0.04/KWh maintenance fee, yay....