I seriously don't understand gamers these days

[pentium]

I am preparing to format my pc and start over with a fresh install of everything and when I requested tips on what to do they started yelling at me for stuff like "why the hell are you using antivurus software" or "Why did you buy software that needs an internet activation (more indirectly put, why am I not using warez...though it's obvious why not)". The thread then completely derailed and it turned into a war against which antivirus was better and how often you should format your system (one guy said he did it weekly).
Well I gave up with them and here I am asking a more.....er....educated group who know that it is not wise to run a system with no antivirus or format and reload your computer at least three times every six months OR solve any problem with a hardware upgrade because "2007 is ancient"(jesus..... )

Anyways, I have several programs (XP professional included) that require you to connect to the internet and validate the program prior to use or else you get like fifteen days to use it before it stops running. Since I will be technically running that software on the same computer still, do I have to order a new validation key or can I just tell customer support that I am reinstalling (due to hardware issues) and I need permission to one more program validation?

[Per Hansson]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

Yes, if you call MS and tell them that your old mainboard died and you got a replacement mobo then they will give you a validation key to activate with. This is in the license agreement for OEM software (which is what I presume you are using)

If you tell them that you simply upgraded the mainboard they will tell you to buy a new license, because the OEM license is bound to the mainboard on which it was first installed...

I use Symantec Corporate Antivirus, and I like it, there is no extra stupid uselss crap like all other Antivirus software seem to have these days

[dingo99]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

If you're not changing hardware, you might not need to talk to support at all. MS allows unlimited internet reactivations on the same machine.

Software from other companies may work differently, of course. Securom activation (used in Bioshock, e.g.) does limit the number of reinstalls you can perform, even on the same machine. Even so, usually you can reinstall several times before running into problems.

[pentium]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

When it comes to games like Bioshock, Steam is my friend.
With the new HD 3850 to be installed and my system to eventually be maxed with a full 3 gigs of ram, I heavily doubt this motherboard will be replaced until at least 2010. I don't know if it was a smart choice but hell, it was my money in the first place.
Thanks.

[Paul S]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

My experience with WinXP activations are this. When I reinstalled on the same PC, but opted to not register, the activation failed.

When I installed on the same PC, but selected to register using the same name and email as before, the activation succeeded.

When I (re)installed on a different PC, and registered using same name and email, activation succeeded. There is a time limit on how often you can do this (three months?).

As for anti-virus software. Symantec (Norton) is a system hog. It will slow your system down. On my PC with an ATI ALL-In-Wonder card, it interfered with the FM radio tuner that is on the card. It took a while be fore I found out that it was Norton doing it. As soon as I uninstalled Norton, the FM tuner worked.

I would recommend Avast4Home. It is free and is even recommended by Consumer Reports magazine. You need to register it to get off the 30-day trial. Registration is free.
http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html

[starfury1]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

its a right royal pain having to start again

On windoze activation I think if your reactivating on the same hardware it will probably be ok with the online activation...they are now a little more heavy handed I think with activation, but not sure on how it all works with them
(as far as oem the above I think is the case)
You also have to be careful with what winXP disk you use with what Key

Firewalls, Notorns IS can be hazardous to online activation.

Me would first install windows MB drivers etc then Av and other programs
(bearing in mind AV can interfere with program install so if your not connecting to net maybe better latter on)

I suppose you could risk going to MS update first off and updating windows.
before you start all the other installs

You can if your winxp is an older one or you want the latest hotfixs get into something call slipstreaming (example here )

I would once you got your base install done get some reliable imaging proggie and image to another hdd if you are intending on not to changing hardware.
keep it as a backup to reinstall from (plus also a back image on the HDD if its a biggie)
DVD's are possible too but I wouldn't overly trust them to work when you need them...(verbatim seem to have a more constant standard) just don't go cheap media
Cloning HDD's is probably the easiest way to go.

This would mean your virtually ready to roll provided the HARDWARE hasn't change
(but this may depend on what and how some of those proggies activate)

I have had not had a problem cloning HDD's for my computers with windows etc thought

Try and keep OS programs on one disk or partition and Data Work multimedia etc on another.
(really wish I'd take my own advice sometimes the space is there so you tend to use it)

As far as AV spyware proggie go..
you need them if you got a windows box on the net
To me thats end of story really

side point
True thought there is not one thats a 100% perfect AV or Spyware proggie so its an idea to if you can get a more then one on but they never used to play nicely together usually you have to have one only as resident type scanner)
They are a necessary evil

Warez can be just plain asking for trouble. I don't use it

on line activation is the pits especially when it comes to limited activations...why bioshock is not getting my money.
Unfortunately its only going to get worse. I try not to by anything that requires it but thats getting harder...roll on Linux

Anyway just my thoughts on it and that doesn't mean I am right or have the best ideas...on this

Cheers

[starfury1]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

As for anti-virus software. Symantec (Norton) is a system hog.

Agree stay away from that its a nightmare to get rid of too, not that it doesn't work (mostly)
just can be a real headache

True there are some freebies that are quite ok altohut I use a paid for program NOD32 plus other stuff

[stevo1210]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

Symantec (Norton) is a system hog. It will slow your system down.

Now I know why my PC is so slow.... I've got to remove that Norton then....

[bgavin]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

There is a simple solution: system imaging.

I build a new system using FDISK/FORMAT. Install Windows, and drivers for a network card if necessary (nForce2, etc). Just enough to get it smart enough to connect to the Internet.

Go online, register the system.
Do all the current Windows updates.

Make a GHOST image of the system. I call it "base.gho".
You can restore back to this image time and again, as it is always the same, and always registered.

I have a World of Warcraft client system that is built this way. Restoring his system gives him an entirely fresh slate to install the latest WOW from scratch. He always has a fresh system this way.

[zandrax]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

Obviously the guy who reinstalls his system every week because it get corrupted / full of spyware or because he likes installing a program and unistalling ten seconds later is not a smart one - he should ask himself why the pc get infested and what programs does he need. I think a Windows installation can last three or four years if you take care of it and avoid both viruses and spyware.

Starfury's reply covers most of what I'd have written: get the last service pack, all windows updates made after the sp and last drivers available; install the sp and the updates through slipstreaming in a new cd, an "updated" XP install cd. If the motherboard is brand new and has a sata controller you can slipstream the controller driver too (nLite is useful for this purpose); since XP can load drivers during the installation only from floppies and this procedure doesn't work if the floppy unit isn't recogized, you have to if the floppy controller isn't a standard one (bgavin had some trouble with an Intel G33 based mobo). Then install other drivers and all programs you need.
After the installation you call MS and ask for a new activation code: if you changed an oem mobo do it as Per wrote, if you changed a retail one (and you have a retail XP copy) you can activate it 4 times through Internet before having to call MS call center and explain your changes.

BTW, you can try Avira Antivir PersonalEdition (the free one): I prefer it to Avast because it's slightly faster, has a cleaner interface and it doesn't continously scan my drive - my hard drive's head is sensitive to heat, so the fewer it spins the longer it lasts. If you can spend some money, consider buying Nod32: I think it's the only antivirus program faster than Antivir.

Zandrax

[Per Hansson]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

Yes, Norton Antivirus sucks balls

Symantec Corporate Antivirus is quite ok tho IMO, it is what I use atleast

[pentium]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

My dad gets every new version of Norton system works. I no longer use the antivirus software much anymore (except for download scans and a bit of mail scanning) but I find the other tools work well so I configured Norton system works to load a complete minimal number of applications when I boot the system.
So long as you keep it lite you really don't have much of an issue.

[gonzo0815]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

Here in Germany, AFAIK a XP license ist not bound to any component. It is not allowed, to do this. So there is no problem, if you change something.
Furthermore, you can sell and buy OEM licenses, as there is no way, that MS can punish you for this, as long as you aren`t a MS partner and has singed their (selling) therms.

I have installed several OEM XP`s, sometimes bought at ebay (but with original COA sticker).
I had to call activation hotline several times, but the only question to answer is, on how much systems you have installed the license to be activated.
I think the answer here is obvious
It is only a pain in the ass to put all those numbers into your system But apart from this, no problem with activation.

And yes, i believe in licenses as a property right to use the software, so i certainly would not accept an rejected activation of a licence i have paid for.

Regarding those gamers, i think we all understand now, why educating the unwashed mass about the real thing on PSU`s is an ungrateful job

I have installed wxp for about two or three years, and since them never had to do it again (on my system...).
My W2k installation lasted about five years, then i decided, to go with xp for my own system.
Basic protection comes from my wrt54g router, running Tomato FW and basic firewall.
This protects the systems i install long enough, to get all the activation and antiviral software installation done.
ATM i prefer to use AVG Free Edition, which is very fast, but may be not the absolute best one.
Avaste is certainly a very sophisticated antiviral tool, but from my point of view, not suitable for single core systems
But any way, it is far less demanding then anything from P. Norton company.

[shadow]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

Obviously the guy who reinstalls his system every week because it get corrupted / full of spyware or because he likes installing a program and unistalling ten seconds later is not a smart one - he should ask himself why the pc get infested and what programs does he need. I think a Windows installation can last three or four years if you take care of it and avoid both viruses and spyware.

Starfury's reply covers most of what I'd have written: get the last service pack, all windows updates made after the sp and last drivers available; install the sp and the updates through slipstreaming in a new cd, an "updated" XP install cd. If the motherboard is brand new and has a sata controller you can slipstream the controller driver too (nLite is useful for this purpose); since XP can load drivers during the installation only from floppies and this procedure doesn't work if the floppy unit isn't recogized, you have to if the floppy controller isn't a standard one (bgavin had some trouble with an Intel G33 based mobo). Then install other drivers and all programs you need.
After the installation you call MS and ask for a new activation code: if you changed an oem mobo do it as Per wrote, if you changed a retail one (and you have a retail XP copy) you can activate it 4 times through Internet before having to call MS call center and explain your changes.

BTW, you can try Avira Antivir PersonalEdition (the free one): I prefer it to Avast because it's slightly faster, has a cleaner interface and it doesn't continously scan my drive - my hard drive's head is sensitive to heat, so the fewer it spins the longer it lasts. If you can spend some money, consider buying Nod32: I think it's the only antivirus program faster than Antivir.

Zandrax

Yes I quite like NOD32. Perfect for my systems which are a bit older, doesn't use too many resources and is very good. With regards to Norton software, Norton software has always been a little bloated. However they are actively trying to slim down their software now. The newest version is heaps less memory intensive than say a Norton product 5 years ago. Back then they were complete nightmares. The Corporate Edition is actually quite slim and good as well. However I believe that it has been discontinued and replaced with Endpoint Protection.

[Bookworm]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

I do computer work for a living. I work on more computers in a week than the average person looks at in a year.

My experiences.

1) Norton and McAfee need to get out of the AV business completely, or realize that they can't do everything well. Their programs are both excessively bloated, and are no better now than they were five years ago. In fact, they're worse. Anything labeled "Internet Security" is an immediate "Avoid like the plague!"

2) F-Prot, AVG, and Avast work very well, at reasonable costs. (If you have more than one PC, you can buy an F-Prot business license for 10 computers that costs about the same as buying one retail license for Norton) AVG/Avast are free (for the 'home' versions), but do the job. Avast requires registration.

3) I have two windows computers with _no_ antivirus that haven't gotten a virus in four years. I also deliberately download contaminated software onto them - so I can figure out what my customers are going to do to themselves. If you pay attention to what you're doing, you're good - especially if you avoid IE7 completely, and only use IE6 on broken websites that require it. Firefox, Opera, and other versions are better. (Not perfect, but better)

4) A wipe and reinstall for the average machine is necessary every one to two years, depending on the frequency of upgrading instant messengers, Yahoo crap, adding/removing programs, and so forth. CCleaner and similar tools can reduce the frequency of reinstalls.

5) Ghost is good, especially if you get the old ghost that was actually made by Norton (they stopped in 2004 and went with a 'PE' live style that was made by a purchased company). Make a clean install with all the drivers you need, make a list of those drivers for future updates, and ghost it. Then install the rest of your applications.

Additional antivirus notes.

Norton uses between 60-130 megabytes of ram at any particular time, and the lowest number of services and processes I've ever seen was six. The average is somewhere around 11, with the max being 13. That's five or six 'loaded' programs, and four to seven 'services' (or vice versa).

Disable _all_ email scanning. You don't need it. Normal antivirus scans are 'scan on file open', which means that you're covered. When you open an infected email, you won't get infected unless the file is copied to the hard drive, then run - at which point it's being scanned by the AV. If the AV misses it, you wouldn't have been helped by an 'in-email' scanner anyway.

Turn OFF all rich text in email. If you have Outlook, but MUST have colour and fonts - use HTML mail. If not, turn it to text-only. The mails are much smaller, move out faster, and have fewer problems with spam filters. Also, turn off 'use microsoft word' to edit your emails. That's a crap setting that simply makes it slower to open emails (and create new ones) as well as slows the machine down (You have Word and Outlook open at the same time).

In non-Micro$oft programs, do the same thing - do text-only unless you need the glitzy stuff.

Turn off all unnecessary programs that come up at booting. Examples of this are RealPlayer updates, Quicktime updates, HP scanner/printer updates, Instant Messengers (you don't use the IM as the first thing on your machine, do you?), and similar programs.

_Read the agreements on software_. Even CCleaner, which I _really_ like, has a real bastard of a hidden trick. If you just hit 'next next next', you'll end up with Yahoo toolbar on your system, which you then have to uninstall (it's not really that hidden, but it's at the bottom of a list of checkboxes, and most people don't read that far).

Uninstall _all_ toolbars that you don't _have_ to have. That's in both Firefox AND IE.

If you don't need it, don't install it. If you're putting Microsoft Office on your machine, use a custom install. If you don't _use_ the office assistant, don't install it. Don't install most of the 'web' services as well. If you don't need Powerpoint, don't bother with it. You can add the powerpoint viewer, which is tiny and doesn't take up any disk space to speak of. If you use thunderbird, don't install Outlook. If you don't need Office(tm), then try OpenOffice.org, Lotus Symphony (from IBM), or even Google Docs.

Use Hijackthis (now owned by TrendMicro) to see everything your computer loads when you boot, including into IE, and clean up the start menu.

Hope these help people keep their machine running faster, longer.

BW

[Fizzycapola]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

First thing after installing OS is a firewall and drivers ( myself I prefer the fastest drivers rather than the newest drivers, I don't do Windows updates etc, why do something for no reason, in the past updates have only slowed my computers and caused problems.)

Once the system benchmarks it's fastest possible speed, backup the OS partition with a DOS partition backup utility (backup I put onto a special outer platter slow partition such as Z:OSBACK).

Immediatiately after the minimal sized OS partition (i.e 2GB-3GB for XP) will be the games partition or Pagefile partition and then games partition, if I'm playing only one game such as an online RPG, then the first partition after OS might be the D:MAINGAME and in FAT32 4K Cluster Size files put on in some order that makes sense, maybe one directory at a time defragmenting after each directory installed so Windows Defragmentor will eventually show one long blue block with no breaks starting from the far left.

Partition for movies, music and documents will be made from the slowest part (end) of the hard drive as no speed is required for these type of files.

Recently I've not been using the absolute end or very beginning of drives in hope that someway this might help the drive from errors from the dirty edges of the platters.

Modern online AV software of course is a pain to gamers. Alot of things like this report silly things such as cookies as virii, a proper virus will wipe out your computer not sit around waiting to be detected. Perhaps only important if you're heavily into pirate software. I don't see any point in it if you only use software from reputable companies, use online filtered email accounts, don't use insecure things like MSN, messenger etc - anything that a firewall detects that should always be blocked without exception along with port blocking of anything but TCP/UDP protocols on port 80 for web browsing and in-situ deblocking of a certain site only to commence brief purchasing on 83.

If I feel system is compromised or performance degraded, self booting CD with partition tool, load back a saved OS partition, everything under two minutes on a modern PC. Insanely more time efficient than regular virus scanning and maintenance - which only patches up problems.

Start>Run>MSConfig or Start>Run>Regedit>Find"RunOnce"
from time to time, generally you can wipe most things that want to load a startup, nothing is really required, most just sits around wasting resources for no reason (wasting resources is smiled upon by some I guess)

My current greatest concerns are the Hotmail emails in my junk folder, all claiming to be my different banks with legitimate addresses.

If something wants to access the internet, then it's best not to allow it, permanently block it and wipe the file wanting internet access. If a website wants something out of the ordinary - such as anything but port 80 TCP - just don't visit it - why does it want such a thing!? 99.999999% of other websites don't want this unusual access to your computer.

I know aslong as I don't click on anything or press Enter/Return I "might" be ok. Along with CTLR+ALT+Del to close those crazy applications that go buggy.

Along with not installing any new software/ drivers/codecs/versions, this should ensure you don't run into problems. Why would you want to install something new to do the same thing you can already do without it anyhow?!

Everyone knows the best Geforce 2 driver was 30.82, like 60.72 was the best Geforce 6 driver, once installed no need for anything else. Best paint/photo application PaintshopPro version 4, Photoshop version 6, Video director version 1

[willawake]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

talking about symantec antivirus, getting several gigs worth of thunderbird inboxes quarantined just now is certainly one of the milestones in my computer experience... i thought my hdd was getting vaped

[Bookworm]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

You just ran into one of the problems with allowing the A/V to scan your email - they'll happily do that. I've had extremely damaged inboxes of various types come out of an antivirus.

I disable the 'scan email as it comes in' immediately.

[willawake]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

i have disabled scanning of the thunderbird mail folder now
i guess i just discovered my new vps has no antivirus

[Bookworm]

Re: I seriously don't understand gamers these days

You'll still have antivirus - when a file is pulled out to the drive to be opened, the scanner will check it before you open it.