highest p3 clock speed?

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

an aftermarket PCI video card because I just cannot stand the RageXL sadness.

At least the RageXL is better than an Intel i815!

The 82815 I used on a PIII 733 was real sad!

Especially because 82815s have serious blending issues. (Likely alpha-blending issues)

RageXL was just bloody slow when I tested one with Perfect Dark on my Wintendo.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

is it true that a 1.6ghz p3 would blow away a 1.6ghz p4?

On the Passmark benchmark, a 1.4 GHz PIII scored 336, a 1.6 GHz P4 scored 193.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

[kc8adu]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

well i might try and hotrod another dual p3.
got in a junker with a dual 370 board and cpu's.
needs caps.
has isa!
will post results here.

[Uranium-235]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

I have a 1U supermicro server /w dual P3-S 1.4's. DDR (ECC/reg). serverworks chipset. no overclocking options :/

[momaka]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

I got an ASUS CUR-DLS motherboard with 2x 1GHz Pentium 3s in it. With a GeForce 6200 128 MB PCI video card, I get about the same gaming performance as I do with a 2 GHz Northwood P4 system with a 128 MB GeForce 5600FX. YouTube performance is about the same too. The P3s suck at video decoding, though. This is probably the only place where the long architecture of the P4 shines.

and an aftermarket PCI video card because I just cannot stand the RageXL sadness.

Yup, that's the exact same reason I have the GeForce 6200 in mine. The 8 MB RageXL is so slow that it makes me rage!

At least the RageXL is better than an Intel i815!

I disagree.
Both are very sad in terms of performance. However, the Intel i815 at least doesn't have problems rendering Windows GUI screens in 1024x768, unlike the RageXL. My P3 HP Pavilion uses the i810 chipset and onboard graphics. It has acceptable 2D window-rendering performance even at 1280x1024. The RageXL... every time I open or close a window, it's like watching a large image download on a slow dial-up connection.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

i815 seems to be missing blending functions.

Definitely has a fog issue. Had to disable fog with PJ64 1x, when I made the PIII 733 box a Wintendo.

Expect squares from time to time, because i815 appears to be missing blending functions that most GPUs had, even then.

And Intel drivers are stable. I do agree that I never had desktop rendering issues.

i815 is what gave Intel graphics a bad rep.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

I got an ASUS CUR-DLS motherboard with 2x 1GHz Pentium 3s in it. With a GeForce 6200 128 MB PCI video card, I get about the same gaming performance as I do with a 2 GHz Northwood P4 system with a 128 MB GeForce 5600FX. YouTube performance is about the same too. The P3s suck at video decoding, though. This is probably the only place where the long architecture of the P4 shines.


Yup, that's the exact same reason I have the GeForce 6200 in mine. The 8 MB RageXL is so slow that it makes me rage!


I disagree.
Both are very sad in terms of performance. However, the Intel i815 at least doesn't have problems rendering Windows GUI screens in 1024x768, unlike the RageXL. My P3 HP Pavilion uses the i810 chipset and onboard graphics. It has acceptable 2D window-rendering performance even at 1280x1024. The RageXL... every time I open or close a window, it's like watching a large image download on a slow dial-up connection.

I have a Pentium 3 Tualatin Celeron 1300 @ 1456MHZ overclocking, 768MB SDRAM and ALL IN WONDER RAGE 128 PRO 32MB. While the TV Tuner is very satisfying, the card is slow on Windows XP, for example when the mouse moves to "All the programs" in start menu, the showing of the submenu is laggish.

[Pentium4]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

I might be willing to sell my dual P3 setup just cause I have no time to mess with it it's a Supermicro board with dual 1.4GHz Tualitin-S P3's with 4GB of ECC Crucial PC133 memory

[linuxguru]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

Only after the Northwood clock speeds exceeded about 2GHz.

'Who wins the race' is largely application dependent.
If you put a 2GHz Northwood up against a single 1.4GHz PIII-S it's 50/50/90 who will come out on top.

Intel deliberately suppressed their marketing of PIII-S chips because they kicked butt on their 'Flagship' P4's.
Presumably that is also why they limited the i815 chipset to 512MB RAM and didn't sh*t a better chipset - even for their own PIII-S server boards.

Most PIII mobos were SDRAM-only (there may have been a few server mobos that supported DDR). If you want to compare a PIII clock-to-clock with a P4, you have to put the P4 in an SDRAM mobo (of which there were many early ones based on SiS as well as Intel chipsets).

I've done exactly that many years ago, and I can confirm that on real benchmarks, a 1.2 GHz Tualatin Celeron runs about exactly on par with a 2.66 GHz single-threaded Northwood P4, both with SDRAM. Note that the P4 has 512k cache, while the Tualatin is at 256k.

I also have a specially-modded i815T board with 8x 3300uF/6.3 on Vcore and some other polymer mods, and I can run almost any Tualatin 1.2 GHz at 1.6 GHz with 133 FSB on that board. That combo basically creams 3 GHz Northwoods with SDRAM. I would in fact prefer a 1.2GHz/100FSB Tualatin Celeron over the 1.2 GHz/133FSB Tualatin PIII (not the 512K cache PIII-S), mainly for the overclock margin with the Celeron.

Of course, everybody will chime in that Northwoods with DDR will leave Tualatins in the dust. Fine, but if I had to use DDR, I would use a Thoroughbred-B Athlon XP3000+ or higher to cream any Northwood or Prescott.

Basically, Netburst was junk, but Intel made a lot of money on it. Luckily, I didn't waste too much money on P4s, and my last one will get an upgrade shortly.

[linuxguru]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

I had the 300MHz Pentium I

There are legit, factory-spec 300 MHz mobile Pentiums w/ MMX (I think Tillamook core). AFAIK, the only ones delivered were for an IBM ThinkPad model which was cancelled and replaced by a PII-based model.

However, I have one of those 300 MHz Tillamook modules, bought as a souvenir when they showed up in surplus. No way to use it because it has special dual-row connectors on the module, which will only mate to the ones on the cancelled ThinkPad.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

I have a TUSL-C Asus board that allows me to select a CPU speed, but it overclocks the PCI bus and renders my SCSI cards inoperable.

Just posting FYI, that's the same reason Via chipsets get a bad rep, because of always being linked to the PCI and AGP buses.

There seemed to be nothing wrong with them other than that, except for pre-KT266 chipsets.

Via is known for chipsets that make overclockers say or type profanities...

[Heihachi_73]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

My P3 HP Pavilion uses the i810 chipset and onboard graphics. It has acceptable 2D window-rendering performance even at 1280x1024. The RageXL... every time I open or close a window, it's like watching a large image download on a slow dial-up connection.

I know this is from almost two years ago, but the i810 was nothing but a sack of sh!t - what was Intel thinking when they came up with a video chipset which cannot handle 32-bit graphics modes, the standard desktop color depth since the mid-1990s?

My HP Pavilion 500a (1.2GHz Celeron Tualatin, 256MB SDRAM and a crappy SFF Bestec PSU) suffered from the same thing: i810 chipset, four PCI slots (no AGP) and about three games on the entire planet which worked with its 24-bit graphics mode, unless you wanted to drop the colors to 16-bit and make it look like crap - most games simply crashed on load if the colors weren't 32-bit or 16-bit! I believe its 3D (D3D/OGL) modes were limited to 16-bit color anyway, although DirectDraw ran fine in 24-bit, when games actually supported it. The last time I saw a 24-bit graphics mode in Windows was with an S3 ViRGE on a Pentium 166, that says something (ironically, the older S3 Trio64 series actually ran in 32-bit under Windows' S3 driver).

[momaka]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

I believe its 3D (D3D/OGL) modes were limited to 16-bit color anyway, although DirectDraw ran fine in 24-bit, when games actually supported it.

Wait, you ran a game in D3D/OGL on that piece of turd?!? I'm actually surprised. The last time I tried to game on that computer was about 3 years ago, and I only did it as a joke - besically I tried installing Counter Strike 1.6 (which is essentially 1.5 with Steam). Coundn't get any of the graphics modes to run excep Software Render - and we all know how badly this drops the performance in the game. I think my average framerate was around 12 to 13 FPS, peaking to 15 at times.... on a game from '98.
...
Yep, the i810 is crap for games. But for desktop 2D, is not too bad at all. I can barely see much difference in its 24-bit mode over a computer with a proper 32-bit mode. Most LCD monitors mask that pretty well, especially ones with cheap panels like ChiMei.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

There are legit, factory-spec 300 MHz mobile Pentiums w/ MMX (I think Tillamook core). AFAIK, the only ones delivered were for an IBM ThinkPad model which was cancelled and replaced by a PII-based model.

It was likely cancelled, because of TDP issues. It would make better sense on a desktop. If Intel could tweak the transistors and silicon enough to keep a lower wattage while raising the clock on the PI, then it could have been a perfect stop gap, especially for socket 7 boards.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

i815 was being rather a turd, for the graphics having missing support and having to drop it to 16 bpp for 3D, which is still a ton better than 16-colors. (4 bpp)

Color chart:

16 colors= 4 bpp (The lowest on VGA)

256 colors

High color= 16 bpp (Setting the palette to this may increase FPS on later graphics cards (2003 and later)

True color= 24 bpp

True color= 32 bpp (usually) (The maximum amount of colors)

[Gordon01]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

YEAH someone agrees with me that p3 archetitecture is better than p4 netburst shit!

I agree.
Also, Willamate arch is even worst then Nothwood. Especially if it is a Celeron with 128 kb cache.
You can google that Core/Conroe arch is based on a Tualatin, not northwood/willamate. We all know how much better Core against P4.
Northwood is developed in right time to easily increase GHz marketing numbers so they perceived much faster than AMDs. Also remember massive Pentium 4 advertising. Intel want make money with less effort in that days and they made it.

[linuxguru]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

It was likely cancelled, because of TDP issues. It would make better sense on a desktop. If Intel could tweak the transistors and silicon enough to keep a lower wattage while raising the clock on the PI, then it could have been a perfect stop gap, especially for socket 7 boards.

The 300 MHz Tillamooks had decently low TDP specs, below 10W, IIRC. They were comparable to or lower than the first PII mobile modules. The reason they were canned is possibly due to marketing reasons - the market was willing to pay more for a PII notebook than a Pentium MMX at the same clock. Actually, the market was willing to pay more for a Covington Celeron 266 MHz with 0 L2 cache, than it was willing to pay for a 300 MHz Tillamook.

For desktops, Intel had already lost the Socket-7 race to the competition, mainly the AMD K6-II and K6-III. The latter was seriously fast, even at its lowest clock bin of 400 or 450 MHz. The problem was that it came too late and too low quantities to make a dent in the desktop market, which was transitioning from Socket-7 to Slot-1 anyway.

[Heihachi_73]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

Wait, you ran a game in D3D/OGL on that piece of turd?!? I'm actually surprised. The last time I tried to game on that computer was about 3 years ago, and I only did it as a joke - besically I tried installing Counter Strike 1.6 (which is essentially 1.5 with Steam). Coundn't get any of the graphics modes to run excep Software Render - and we all know how badly this drops the performance in the game. I think my average framerate was around 12 to 13 FPS, peaking to 15 at times.... on a game from '98.
...
Yep, the i810 is crap for games. But for desktop 2D, is not too bad at all. I can barely see much difference in its 24-bit mode over a computer with a proper 32-bit mode. Most LCD monitors mask that pretty well, especially ones with cheap panels like ChiMei.

The problem with 24-bit display modes is not the mode itself, but the fact that the majority of programs making use of the video card beyond the GDI, notably games, don't even have an option for such a mode.

For example, most console emulators tend to have only two options, 16-bit or 32-bit, particularly if they are "enhancement" type emulators (which upscale the 3D output to the desktop/window size instead of the game's native mode) such as ePSXe or Project64; in most cases, the program will crash instantly on load or output an erroneous message (e.g. it thinks you are running in 16 or 256 colors because the color depth isn't 16-bit or 32-bit).

The only fallback possible with the i810 was to manually set the desktop to 16-bit (65536 colors), which made everything look like crap, as most programs weren't smart enough to simply drop the color depth (or more likely, the programmers were early-adopters who paid big dollars the day things came out, e.g. Pentium 4, RAMBUS memory, Windows XP and a Geforce 4 card in 2002, as opposed to keeping a Pentium 2 or 3 (Slot 1), SDRAM, Windows 98 SE and a PCI video card or early AGP, or like my one had, onboard video).

It's sort of like the early 1990s, when some Windows 3.x software refused to work, but for the opposite reason:

"This program requires 256 colors", despite the desktop running at 65536 colors, as the PC had a 1MB VLB video card! Obviously the program thought your video card could only handle 16 colors (4-bit), and the programmers never thought anyone would use/need more than 256 colors to begin with (the old "640K ought to be enough for anybody" quote comes to mind).

Luckily MS caught that one and put a 256 color option into its compatibility mode later on (although it took until XP rather than Win9x).

[eccerr0r]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

A lot of LCD displays only have 6-bit resolution for each color versus 8-bit which adds to the difficulty in detecting 24-bit color. CRTs don't have this issue as they're analog and will display whatever the DAC gives.

Also the 256-color thing: Keep in mind that the old 320x200 256 color VGA "Pseudocolor" mode has palette swapping which 16-bit/64K and 24-bit/16M+ color modes and higher do not have. The palette shifting is a feature you can't really fake with a higher color mode - it has to be hardware else it'll be slow. Some video cards have a special mode that you can mix the palette switch mode with the truecolor modes, and thus could do the 8-bit pseudocolor graphics at high resolution. It was a pain in the @$$ even for Linux/X11 where there were applications depending on pseudocolor modes and thus would not run on graphic cards/drivers that do not support such, despite supporting high/truecolor modes. "Low" (4-bit), High, and truecolor modes are easily mapped upwards (and true -> high is not way too bad) so that wasn't a big problem. I don't recall ever seeing a graphics driver support only a 8-bit direct map color, it'd not look much better than 4-bit (1/1/1/intensity) with a 2/3/2 colormap (even 5/6/5 in 16-bit is significantly better.)

I've only worked with the 815 CGC and didn't think it was all that bad. It was hooked up to a 1GHz Coppermine and did 2D just fine.

[linuxguru]

Re: highest p3 clock speed?

Also the 256-color thing: Keep in mind that the old 320x200 256 color VGA "Pseudocolor" mode has palette swapping which 16-bit/64K and 24-bit/16M+ color modes and higher do not have. ... I don't recall ever seeing a graphics driver support only a 8-bit direct map color...

Classic VGA 640x480 8-bit mode used the indexed RAMDAC (palette) to provide 256 out of 65k (16-bit, 5:6:5) or 16M (24-bit, 8:8:8) colours. For years in the late '80s and early '90s, those were the only modes available for most 2D, CAD/CAM-type apps, and they worked fine.

Heck, I've done PCB designs using Wintek SmartWork in the early '80s which used 4-colour 320x200 CGA displays, and it was possible. No fun, but possible. By comparison, 16-colour 640x350 EGA support from OrCad was heavenly.

I've only worked with the 815 CGC and didn't think it was all that bad. It was hooked up to a 1GHz Coppermine and did 2D just fine.

Yup, by the time the on-board Northbridge graphics showed up in the late '90s, 2D support was first-class and there were really no limitations, except for the gaming crowd, who anyway would have needed 3D accelerated graphics, typically from an external PCI or AGP card.