APC UPS units - troubleshooting

[Toasty]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

There was mention of a method to disable or change the program on certain APC units. Try Googling: reprogram smart-ups apc

Something about using hyperterminal and a special cable. I can not find the article that I read less than 2 weeks ago, but the writer did have some of the commands listed. One of which was changing the testing frequency.

[bassbindevil]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

All the UPSes at the office were APC, and I kept a log of when batteries were replaced and any failures. The only thing that ever went wrong with them was the batteries. The worst battery life span was the little 250VA units that used single 12V 7AH batteries.

Anyway, maybe it was because of the clueless IT manager that ignored the warning beeps, but the only bulging batteries I encountered were on SmartUPS units at a different office location. Changing them out required large screwdrivers and other persuasion. I wonder if the automatic self-tests put extra wear on the batteries. Maybe there's a way to disable that "feature".

By the way, the upsclub schematics are still on line.
http://www.upsclub.org/schem/

[willawake]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting



i think these are the biggest single batteries i have seen on a small boat. you can compare size to standard tool briefcase next to them.

[willawake]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting



heres a house battery bank on a cruising boat. i was interested to see these cos i heard about this brand which is hand made in greece. this company unusually makes 2v batteries. so thats a 24v bank. said to be 350ah

[Pyrotech]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

HI, read this whole thread, and here is my advice and warnings:

1. Do not use a vented lead acid auto battery. They can leak sulfuric acid which removes skin and flesh and the battery gives off hydrogen, which is very explosive especially if you smoke.... Thats why indoor lead acid batteries are sealed and bubble out when shorted. Better to bubble out than explode or leak...

2. Its ok to replace 12V 7-7.5AH batteries with 9AH ones of the same size. You can't go up to much or the battery gets bigger in size.

Happy fixing

[i4004]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

>You really need to stop making those generalizations about the APC UPS units.

what generalizations?
where are they?

i just said that small units won't be too good for usage with bigger batteries...because EVEN if they had some brains they can't produce such current for so long...they're just not ment for such loads...

>MANY of them DO have the brains to figure out what is inside because they load test at least once a week if not more.

yes, i said which ones have brains...bigger and more expensive units...
it's not they're break-bank more expensive, but they surely are not cheapest models around...
if it's MANY or NOT SO MANY depends on how much better units apc sells, and i dunno the number...do you?
as for load test it can tell the psu capacity of the battery?
how long does the load test last?

but it's kinda moot anyway as willa probably has the 'good' type...

otoh i have backups 500 that's probably more than 10 years old, and i won't be putting bigger batterie in it anytime soon...

so it's not a generalization but something to carry home when it comes to picking ups to work with bigger batteries...

[willawake]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

well i will see what happens. its not that i cant get 12ah but i got a few 7ah which are probably ok for a while.

[Toasty]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

You really need to stop making those generalizations about the APC UPS units. MANY of them DO have the brains to figure out what is inside because they load test at least once a week if not more.

Yes, you can go smaller in ampere-hours, but the APC units will probably put up a yellow light warning of a weak battery.

If you can only get 7Ah batteries, I would run 2 in parallel for each normally used battery in the circuit. Some units are 24v using 2 - 12v in series.

Toast

[i4004]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

should be ok.
it'll just won't last long while being powered from them...

ups doesn't have brains to figure out what battery is in(unless you do a fully drain/recharge cycle and ups has cpu that monitors it..then it knows) the main problem with too big batteries is if charger is smart, and if circuit itself can take such big currents abuse...

both things are just fine if you have ups that was mentioned here(better(more expensive) models from apc etc.)

to that extent smaller battery will make the charging load smaller(if nothing else shorter charging=smaller load on components), so no worries there...

[willawake]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

we have already talked about using batteries with a larger capacity in ups units. but is it ok to use with a smaller capacity. say if the smart-ups is using 12ah. is it ok to use 7ah instead?

[kc8adu]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

that can happen.could have just been its time to go.

[brianl703]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

the constant voltage charger will happily dump current up to its preset limit into the batts even as cells short.
the remaining good cells hit thermal runaway and melt due to the overcharge.

Is this why the alternator on my old car died? I long suspected that the car battery with the shorted cell killed the alternator. The battery was replaced and the alternator died a couple of weeks later.

[brianl703]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

now its getting interesting. who else has a smartups where the batteries failed this way.

I have a couple of SmartUPS where the batteries were bulging. I got them that way (they were freebies). At least I was able to get the batteries out without metal work.

[willawake]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

just to recap, i had one rack APC Smart UPS make battery warning. the batteries measured 13.33v.

and to add

later i had a smart ups 1000 do the same shit. repeatedly.

both units were using powersonic batteries.

i made experiment with the 2x7ah of the 1000 ups. i put individually on a bright 12v bulb. one battery discharged in 1 hour ok. the other bulged after half an hour. these batteries are only 1 year old.

this leads me to believe the powersonic are not so good batteries.

on the other hand i recently replaced battery in an apc cs which i was pleased to see had done 4 years service. the battery was not bulged.

this is the same experience with my apc rs 1000 which i have at home. eventually i replaced the batteries at 3 years even though it was not necessary.

so in conclusion
i am not happy with powersonic presently
my experience over the years leads me to believe the smart ups units are not dealing with the batteries in a gentle manner whilst the other apc units are.

i would also like to add that ups backup in an office environment should be specified according to real requirements as batteries are expensive. ie two batteries is 2x the cost and maybe its not needed.

i have found another supplier which provides CSB batteries. there is not much choice here. i will go for those in order to continue the research.

[Krankshaft]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

If that resistor bothers you just measure it with a DMM if it's within 10% tolerance it's fine.

If it's shorted or open it will be a pretty obvious reading.

There always is the chance that it is in circuit with other components so it may not read exactly in the 10 ohms area.

I have seen metal oxide resistors (on the convergence amps) on RPTVs break like that. Just a fine crack down the body but they are through hole components.

I would say in an given enough current in an overcurrent condition those puppies would vaporize or at least char pretty good.

[andrew77]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

This looks like it might be relevant to you: link

[felix]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

Thank you for your reply, i have already looked in the hardcopy of the unit's manual...

I contacted APC support and they answered that an "Internal Fault Error" is probably a board fault...I measured the battery voltage with my DMM and it is 13.6V, to exclude some battery originated trouble...

After searching the inside of the ups unit for visible flaws, i discovered only this :





Seems to me that 10Ω R150 resistor (left of the yellow cable) has a small crack in the middle, with a brownish colour...could be burnt ? I'm asking cause i haven't seen a burbt resistor, so i don't know how it would look like...


In the meantime i'll try to borrow an almost out-of-the-box battery from a friend to exclude the battery fault...

Thank you again

[arneson]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

All the manuals are here, check in the troubleshooting of your unit.
The big ones can report internal fuses and breakers out.
Very likely that it is just bad bats though.
http://www.apc.com/

[felix]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

Is there any case that a faulty/old battery can cause an "Internal Error" alarm (All indicators lit simultaneously) on an APC UPS?
Has anyone experienced anything like that and maybe with a battery replacement things came back to normal?

[arneson]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

I know that horrible baked battery smell.It's caustic yet suptle.
All the APC's here have had sets of batteries,
but it's cheap insurance for the protection value.