APC UPS units - troubleshooting

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

I have used automotive type rated capacitors in switching power supply and have not had any issues with doing this that is not to say that I might have an issue with some switching power supply but I have not yet run into this issue yet

[Behemot]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

U'R welcome to check the board and draw schematics

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

Sounds bad and many companies being anti-repair :\

see no reason in stocking small voltages if single covers it all in the same size, besides, they often don't even make those capacitances in lower than 50 V or so

63v 22uF should be ok?

What if I tried LE first to see if there is any feedback and how do you detect feedback, can it damage equipment connected to ups?

[Behemot]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

see no reason in stocking small voltages if single covers it all in the same size, besides, they often don't even make those capacitances in lower than 50 V or so

Chemi-Con also does not like standards for some time now, they were trying to phase that out, and now they announced end of production of everything SMALLER-THAN 10mm diameter, last orders 2023/4

gonna be a challenge to stock everything to last till 2026 or so, and than slowly start replacing it with other japanese brands (unless they do the same, which many will do for sure, they all push that automotive, high temp and hybrid crap )

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

even KMGs/KMQs in the ordinary 5x11 size should run for some 2 decades on average, at least, looking at how long different caps originaly lasted in that

How can you see if there is feedback?

The only other option on display is this one but 63v? and the original is maybe 16v?
KMG (EKMG630ELL220ME11D)

btw this farnell seems to have something with tax and can only send from uk so there is probably customs

[Behemot]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

more like public display than shop

yeah you might experience with them LE, the real measured ESR is about half between standard and low-ESR (tiny bit closer to standard)

I know for sure there are some positions in Back-UPS ES series which do not like those (feedback), I think I've experienced only once so far with Smart-UPS and these, and it went fine, I believe, but need more long-term experience for definitive answer

even KMGs/KMQs in the ordinary 5x11 size should run for some 2 decades on average, at least, looking at how long different caps originaly lasted in that

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

might as well check me stock, no?

Is that ur shop? If so ill shot you a mail for quote.

Guess this one looks good with a little lower esr but 10x life?
LE (ELE-500ELL220ME11D)

Just need something thats compatible with that ups.

[Behemot]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

impedance should be total figure including reactive parts of inductance and capacitance, but resistance makes absolute majority in that (cause we are still in DC, though rippled); the angle is than figure of that

wouldn't have guessed anybody would still be trying to look at that thread, not updated for over 15 years now there's quite a lot of other large resellers in Europe, though they usually still have the same obscure end pricing, especially for a few pieces

might as well check me stock, no?

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

There is nowhere else to buy that other than those obscurely overpriced corporates? Rly?

Dunno it was 5eu postage for a couple of caps Did check the "Where can I buy replacement capacitors" thread and checked digi 30eu+ postage and my country "si" is not even listed in the thread. Maybe need to check postage on all those and if they send here? edit: ok its 7eu on farnell do they have anything good?

I see ur looking at Impedance*2(Ω)?

But what the hell is that equation, did I just mess it up completely or its bunk?

[Behemot]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

Pana FC do list ESR in the datasheet, I see 1.3 ohm. Standard/GP caps usualy do not list that, but it tends to be 2-3times higher.

There is nowhere else to buy that other than those obscurely overpriced corporates? Rly?

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

NHG appears to be standard/GP, if they have some remaining stock.

See no reason to be constantly hooked to Panasonics poor capacitor offering when other major (or minor) quality japanese manufacturers do have several times broader inventory.

That is the only recommended brand that is on conrad.com which doesnt cost an arm and leg in shipping But maybe theres some other that i didnt find.

Im out of my depth here but tried to calculate esr according to this equation.
https://forum.digikey.com/t/calculat...-from-tan/2633

Both of those caps linked give this datasheet NHG-a.
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...3ab98abc7a.pdf

Those low-esr FC have Tan(δ) 0.10 and this NHG has Tan(δ) 0.12.

Now if my calculations are correct the FC is about 6ohm and the NHG is 7ohm which is minimum for Standard aluminum according to wiki. Would that be enough to put 6ohm in or I need like 15 30?

edit: Hmm but NHG has it listed as "tan δ*2" does that mean its double of listed value? edit2: here its listed without *2. so confusing.

[Behemot]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

NHG appears to be standard/GP, if they have some remaining stock.

See no reason to be constantly hooked to Panasonics poor capacitor offering when other major (or minor) quality japanese manufacturers do have several times broader inventory.

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

FC is low-ESR series, not a proper replacement AT ALL.

I noticed many times already, that guy has NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what he's talking about. BEWARE!!

Panasonic does not make standard/general purpose caps any longer.

Damn just received them today. So I guess low-esr is low impedance?

https://hr.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...wNZcEHfQ%3D%3D

How bout this one, it says general purpose, 50v?

Or this one same line, cant even see the difference.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/...HG220I/2688691

[Behemot]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

FC is low-ESR series, not a proper replacement AT ALL.

I noticed many times already, that guy has NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what he's talking about. BEWARE!!

Panasonic does not make standard/general purpose caps any longer.

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

Thanks. Luckily they were on this conrad shop and ordered a bunch just now. Hopefully can coerce a friend with proper soldering equipment to help me so that I dont cook everything with my noname 8eu iron

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

You would be better off with this series because I prefer using 50 volt ones instead of 25 volt or 35 volt for capacitors with low UF values under a 100 volts

https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/...ls/EEUFC1H220H

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

Or are these ones ok for this unit? Lead spacing, 35v? Found that originals are likely 16v, cant open the unit yet. 5eu postage and caps 0.2eu it seems.

https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...ZHK6HoJQ%3D%3D

[loopey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

Hi
Got a SUA1500I bought oct.2009 and its still chugging along on its third battery pack, mostly in cold environment except for like 3 months in a year. But I see these mentions everywhere about the 5 22uF caps and im kinda worried.

What should the minimum voltage of the cap be?

Are these SPK caps any good? Didnt find them in good or bad caps threads with search. Store kinda near me carries them I think.
https://www.spkecl.com/en/product-c2...amic-Disc.html

you need to run a ups down a few times a year atleast - preferably monthly in order to keep the batteries internally stable.

Had no idea, Ill try to do that at least a couple of times a year.

[Behemot]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

Guess it was just initial drop due to high initial current draw. Plus, pretty much no accumulator has flat didscharge curve - it usually drops quickly from full charge to about 11.5 volts, than discharges slowly to 11 volts and than again drops rather fast to 10.5 when the UPS usually cuts it off.

Now the programming should consider this, but you never know. Besides, it indeed is good to discharge it once in a while so it has accurate battery constant values (otherwise it shows crap and could turn off the connected device prematurely, with still plenty energy in the pack).

[DanielCoffey]

Re: APC UPS units - troubleshooting

There we go - first half of the Calibration done on the SMT1500I. A constant 400W load measured on a Watt Meter lasted exactly 40 minutes till shutdown which indicates that the battery was healthy after all.

It did droop quickly down to around 85% in under a minute then climbed up a little to 93%. After that it was a steady run down to 10% then it fell off more quickly, lingered at 0% a short while and stopped.

The Watt Meter on the load showed a clean 400W draw all the way down to the last percent or two when it showed about 392W. The UPS shut off cleanly once it was exhausted. I let it cool a short while (not that the air flow from the fan was more than warm), disconnected the load and plugged it back in to recharge.

We'll see whether the droop on battery is still present in a day or so once we are fully charged again.