Cheap meters.

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  • Th3_uN1Qu3
    Believe in
    • Jul 2010
    • 6031
    • Romania

    #1

    Cheap meters.

    I want to talk about cheap multimeters a bit. Instead of saying all sorts of mumbo jumbo i'll just go straight to the conclusion, period.

    The DT830B is THE best meter if you only use it for basic measurements. There is one thing that must be said though: The probes that come with 830Bs (especially the noname ones) are a MAJOR SAFETY RISK. If you buy proper probes it is a good meter and meets its specs.

    For those of you who need a little more, the DT9208 might look attractive. After all, it's got frequency and capacitance measurement, something which a 830B can only dream of. It's also got an AC amp meter, a temperature probe and a buzzer. And it only costs like $15, maybe even less. That's just two 830Bs.

    Don't be fooled. The DT9208 is a PIECE OF JUNK. If you need something that really is better than a 830B be prepared to spend $80-$100 to get a meter that really does what it says on the box. Like the Uni-T UT60E, which apart from the slow autorange (but it does have manual ranging too), and the backlight that only works when the battery is full, is a very good and properly calibrated all-rounder.

    Okay, you probably ask why i bash the 9208. Well, for one, the 9208A has several ultra cheap trimmers that bounce around when the meter is dropped. It might have respected the tolerances printed in the manual when it left the factory... but there's no guarantee it still does when you buy it. It's sometimes 10% off even in the voltage ranges, which is totally unacceptable. A 830B does lots better. Secondly, the frequency meter which is one of the main features, on the exact same frequency, it reads differently depending on waveform and voltage... It's true, the freq meter section is spec'd for 3% accuracy which isn't stellar, but it isn't uncommon for it to be not 3% but 20% off. On 50Hz mains it reads 54Hz. Folks, that is 8% error right there, on a freakin' sinewave! Also its milliamp section stopped working on mine (no it's not the fuse), it reads overload on all ranges even when just 1mA is applied.

    The only things that work properly are the buzzer, 20A meter, resistor and capacitance meter. But the cap meter also suffers from the cheap trimmers and it only goes to 20uF. Only useful if you do a lot of radio work.

    In conclusion, take a look at this pic. From left to right, UT60E (reference), DT9208A (and that's a CALIBRATED one, it used to be off by quite a bit more), 838 (a 830 with buzzer and temperature), and two 830Bs, all measuring the same power strip. The 830Bs all read a tad higher on 50Hz mains because they are not true RMS and they are designed to work with both 50 and 60Hz mains, so they are calibrated at 55Hz. But they are very close together (actually the last digit fluctuated on all three 83x meters, it's just coincidence that the pic caught them that way), while the 9208A is, well... out. In conclusion, need better than 830B, spend some dough on a proper meter.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 03-29-2011, 12:48 PM.
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
    A working TV? How boring!
  • retiredcaps
    Badcaps Legend
    • Apr 2010
    • 9271

    #2
    Re: Cheap meters.

    Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3
    The DT830B is THE best meter if you only use it for basic measurements. There is one thing that must be said though: The probes that come with 830Bs (especially the noname ones) are a MAJOR SAFETY RISK.
    The problem with the 830B "brand" is the all the variations on ebay. Some have no fuses whatsoever for measuring amps. The one that I ordered from ebay came with no fuse and is so shockingly bad in solder and build quality, I'm glad it arrived DOA.

    The 830B probes too are finicky. Brand new, they measure 0.8 to 0.9 ohms and fluctuate when hooked up to a Fluke 75. With quality probes, I get 0.2 ohms steady on the Fluke 75.

    In conclusion, need better than 830B, spend some dough on a proper meter.
    As an exercise, I have been monitoring multimeter auctions on ebay for the last 5 weeks. The number of name brand (Amprobe, Greenlee, Extech, Fluke) quality multimeters that you can get for under $20 is possible. Obviously, you have to have patience and bid properly, but the examples below are way better than any 830B. Some are brand new (still in packaging) while others are used. Some have true RMS.

    If I lived in the USA, I would probably have some of them, but most don't ship outside the USA.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/320649771695

    http://cgi.ebay.com/170607269853

    http://cgi.ebay.com/260741575430

    http://cgi.ebay.com/260743167277

    http://cgi.ebay.com/350446208870

    http://cgi.ebay.com/220750719913

    http://cgi.ebay.com/360352132372
    Last edited by retiredcaps; 03-29-2011, 01:36 PM. Reason: Changed ebay links as per Scenic in post #3
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    Comment

    • Scenic
      o.O
      • Sep 2007
      • 2642
      • Germany

      #3
      Re: Cheap meters.

      @ retiredcaps: an easy way to keep ebay URLs short is this:
      http://cgi.ebay.com/[article number]
      doesn't need more than that for a valid auction link.
      just by the way..
      Last edited by Scenic; 03-29-2011, 01:29 PM.

      Comment

      • retiredcaps
        Badcaps Legend
        • Apr 2010
        • 9271

        #4
        Re: Cheap meters.

        Originally posted by Scenic
        http://cgi.ebay.com/[article number]
        Thanks. I learned something new today. I changed post #2 to reflect your suggestion.
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        Comment

        • retiredcaps
          Badcaps Legend
          • Apr 2010
          • 9271

          #5
          Re: Cheap meters.

          Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3
          take a look at this pic. From left to right, UT60E (reference), DT9208A (and that's a CALIBRATED one, it used to be off by quite a bit more), 838 (a 830 with buzzer and temperature), and two 830Bs, all measuring the same power strip.
          PS. If you have time, I would love to see photos of the insides of all these meters.
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          • Th3_uN1Qu3
            Believe in
            • Jul 2010
            • 6031
            • Romania

            #6
            Re: Cheap meters.

            Originally posted by retiredcaps
            The problem with the 830B "brand" is the all the variations on ebay. Some have no fuses whatsoever for measuring amps.
            ALL low end multimeters come with no fuses on the amps range. But seriously, why would you need one? An amp meter is a series device so it doesn't require a fuse unless you do something dumb with it like hooking it directly to a car battery or to the mains. The device you are measuring current on should have its own fuse, so why would you need one in the meter? It's just a pain in the ass IMO, actually i jumpered the 10A fuse on my UT60E.

            Even if 830Bs did have 10A fuses the leads they come with melt at 5A.

            Originally posted by retiredcaps
            PS. If you have time, I would love to see photos of the insides of all these meters.
            Dave Jones over at the EEVBlog already took apart the UT60E. For the rest, will do. I dug a bit inside my 9208 and found it has a bad reference - that explains why it's wonky on all ranges. But more on that later.
            Originally posted by PeteS in CA
            Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
            A working TV? How boring!

            Comment

            • everell
              Badcaps Legend
              • Jan 2009
              • 1514
              • USA

              #7
              Re: Cheap meters.

              Interesting post. All the work I do here at the house, I use a MAS830L just like the one on the far right in your picture. Nice and economical. Have fixed a lot of computer power supplies using it. If it ever blows up.....just trash it and get another.
              Old proverb say.........If you shoot at nothing, you will hit nothing (George Henry 10-14-11)

              Comment

              • delaware74b
                Badcaps Veteran
                • Apr 2009
                • 628
                • USA

                #8
                Re: Cheap meters.

                I recently bought the Ideal [61-340] from a local Lowe's for $58.

                Pros: It actually reads caps to 3300uF (largest I have on hand) and it's reasonably accurate.

                Cons: Continuity beeper not very loud (common to this model), SLOW on reading caps >100uF. It take up to 30 seconds to charge & read a 3300uF 10 Volt cap!

                Other thoughts: I use it for commercial electrical work as well as computer/electronics. I wouldn't be too upset if it dies.
                Stupidity should be a crime, especially for drivers. I have NO patience for them.

                Comment

                • retiredcaps
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 9271

                  #9
                  Re: Cheap meters.

                  Originally posted by delaware74b
                  I recently bought the Ideal [61-340] from a local Lowe's for $58.
                  Thanks for sharing your feedback on the multimeter.

                  That is the last multimeter on my ebay list. It went for $13.83.

                  Dave Jones (eevblog) did a review of the Ideal 61-342 in his $100 multimeter shootout. I *think* the 61-340 is the non true RMS version of the 61-342 because they share the same manual.
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                  Comment

                  • severach
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Aug 2007
                    • 1055
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Cheap meters.

                    Too many meters have the continuity beeper on resistance which is worthless to me. The tone needs to be on the diode scale the exact way Mastech implements it on HF item 37772. The beeper sounds below a certain voltage drop. Good parts are silent and risky to shorted parts are noisy. Scanning for shorts is fast and easy.
                    sig files are for morons

                    Comment

                    • Th3_uN1Qu3
                      Believe in
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 6031
                      • Romania

                      #11
                      Re: Cheap meters.

                      Originally posted by severach
                      Too many meters have the continuity beeper on resistance which is worthless to me.
                      Well, the 9208A has it on diode too... but that doesn't make it less crappy.
                      Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                      Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                      A working TV? How boring!

                      Comment

                      • jsog
                        Badcaps Veteran
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 220

                        #12
                        Re: Cheap meters.

                        A meter very similar to these was just given to me. The story was that it was being used near a bug zapper, went zzzt and didn't work any more. The internal fuse reads 0.3 ohm. Everything looks fine, although that round yellow blob at R33 (marked "75S") by the blue pot makes me wonder. Display comes on and works, it even gives measurements.

                        But an AA battery that reads 1.625 volts on my Fluke shows 0.66 volts on this fine unit, and two of them show 1.33 volts. Probably not worth fixing, but it would be nice anyway.

                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                        • Th3_uN1Qu3
                          Believe in
                          • Jul 2010
                          • 6031
                          • Romania

                          #13
                          Re: Cheap meters.

                          Looks like the reference is wonky. Standard procedure applies: You have a trimpot. Turn it.

                          Here's the guts of the 9208A with information on the trimpots. I tweaked the main reference (which naturally messed up everything else), and even after aligning everything the frequency meter still sucks, the higher ranges of the capacitance meter got so bad that i had to pencil one of the resistors near the trimpot to get the trimpot back to useful range, and since the main Vref controls both AC and DC voltage readings (along with pretty much everything else but at least there are separate trimpots for the other ranges), i had to choose between getting proper readings on either AC or DC. Not both at the same time. I chose DC.

                          Well, to sum it up... The ohm meter works, the diode/buzzer works, the amp meter works, the cap meter sorta works, the temperature probe works. The frequency meter doesn't, the volt meter doesn't. In conclusion: A plain 830B does better. Get the 838 and you also get the buzzer and temperature. There you go. And yes the pic was photoshopped for clarity.
                          Attached Files
                          Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                          Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                          A working TV? How boring!

                          Comment

                          • skystormfarms
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 160

                            #14
                            Re: Cheap meters.

                            wow get the wrong V acrost that and bang

                            Comment

                            • Th3_uN1Qu3
                              Believe in
                              • Jul 2010
                              • 6031
                              • Romania

                              #15
                              Re: Cheap meters.

                              It's true, a lot of the protection circuits are missing. But i did accidentally plug it into the mains on the ohms range. It didn't blow up. 830Bs like to do that.
                              Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                              Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                              A working TV? How boring!

                              Comment

                              • silverflower
                                New Member
                                • Jul 2017
                                • 2
                                • Romania

                                #16
                                Re: Cheap meters.

                                - Th3_uN1Qu3, I have also the 9208A but the board design is very different compared to your picture, longer and with separate contacts for capacity and temperature.

                                Comment

                                • stj
                                  Great Sage 齊天大聖
                                  • Dec 2009
                                  • 30985
                                  • Albion

                                  #17
                                  Re: Cheap meters.

                                  things get updated in 6 years - both meters and forum threads

                                  Comment

                                  • Th3_uN1Qu3
                                    Believe in
                                    • Jul 2010
                                    • 6031
                                    • Romania

                                    #18
                                    Re: Cheap meters.

                                    Since you brought this back up, might as well go on.

                                    I'm curious on how a 83x meter looks like inside nowadays - bought one a couple months back for a project but didn't get round to even taking it apart, let alone integrating it in the project.
                                    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                                    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                                    A working TV? How boring!

                                    Comment

                                    • stj
                                      Great Sage 齊天大聖
                                      • Dec 2009
                                      • 30985
                                      • Albion

                                      #19
                                      Re: Cheap meters.

                                      cant help, the lowest meter i have is an ANENG 8002 with truerms and 6000count for $15

                                      Comment

                                      • Per Hansson
                                        Super Moderator
                                        • Jul 2005
                                        • 5895
                                        • Sweden

                                        #20
                                        Re: Cheap meters.

                                        On the topic of cheap meters, the new ANENG AN8008 looks really nice (for the price)
                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdGQEVdxmQQ
                                        "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                                        Comment

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