Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

[Sparky]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

lol what reply, "Tom" didn't even say anything, just closed it. Guess he didn't want to talk about it.

[Big Pope]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

More additional information, i have asked Samxon custom made 3300uF 10V D10x30mm (RS series). I will get the samples soon.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Big Pope; very nice!

Spyke; aww, you could have cut them a little bit more slack?

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Thanks Gal

for the link....yeah he's review when I read it was quite favorable to the Enermax Liberty and on his review and others plus my experience it with the last one and there Reputation (Enermax)
I decided on the Enermax Liberty...
not unhappy with it just of concern that a few have died and now popped caps humm

It would be nice to have a detailed "cause and effect" of what happened and it may just have been a few doggy ones that got out the door

BTW I found and re read the posts on the other forum and it was interesting to note this (basically) "lightly loaded" so there goes my theory LOL

But as the out set of this post shows, one given a work out with popped caps so this is another matter I suppose and maybe the liberty is a good candidate for a recap if you intend to give it a real workout

The Infiniti gets a good rap too,

I have yet to re read jonny's review (to find that bit "odd thing" I vaguely remember) but thought I'd put a thanks up for the link

Cheers

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Just on the enermax O/P caps found the old thread on it to quote toastygoodness

My enermax liberty has Hitachi input and JPCE-TURs and one UCC output.

enermax liberty(what kind of caps does it contain?)

Humm dont know whats in mine

On the review I couldn't see the oscilloscope photos and not sure were I go the "odd thing" but maybe this was it

jonny Guru's review

One thing I noticed with the Liberty is when the power supply is initially turned on there's a loud ZAP noise that comes from it. Lurking around several different forums, I found that this zapping noise was actually quite normal for the Liberty. I don't know what the noise is, but the power supply remains quiet throughout operation and the line is almost perfectly straight on the O-scope, so I'm not going to worry about it.

interesting...wonder weather "zap" is something to do with why some people have had light shows...anyway no idea

Well CTC I think was mentioned as the caps which had started to pop in the original post so who makes, supplies them?
When did they start appearing in the Liberty Line PSU's ?

next time I ve got this apart I'll see if I can see whats in mine...it might be time to void the warranty anyway to check.
(think its only 1 year not 3 anyhow)

Cheers

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

zapping
ok well an idea, probably related to inrush current and soft start control
(possibly mechanical shifting (ringing) from surge?)

Have to have close listen to mine next time the plugs pulled and I start it

[Galvanized]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

The Infinity reviewed very well but why these unknown caps http://www.0759.com/CECWEB/index.aspx?lang=en ? Well, they are unknown to me and I have seen no posts here about this brand.

Another thing that bothers me about Enermax...Where is the factory and/or corporate offices? I could never get an answer or find them on-line.

The Enermax-USA site used to have a FAQ section that spoke of the power-on zapping sound. They called it coil ignition. IIRC, it is the APFC coil saturating. I could not find it to link but I sure did read it last year.

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

yeah was just looking at Jonny's review of the Infiniti
(I hadn't really read it yet, just skimmed it like last page conclusion )

The first thing I want to address is the "tsst" sound you hear when you fire this puppy up. "Tsst" is the noise you hear as the manual describes it, but I describe it as a "buzzap" like a bug zapper or Jacob's ladder. It'll make you jump if you don't expect that it's coming. Enermax claims that the sound is normal and that it's caused by a coil ignition as the APFC is hit with inrush current. Ok.... if you say so.

Supposedly the APFC circuitry of this power supply also causes some problems with simulated sine wave UPS's. The manual states that you should only use a true sine wave UPS. Those can be expensive! So I bypassed my test equipment on the AC input side of my bench and tested this PSU plugged directly into an Ultra 1500VA simulated sine wave, line-interactive UPS. I tested at both standby and full load conditions and repeatedly unplugged the UPS from the wall and I not once experienced any problems with the PSU. I'm sure Enermax isn't trying to scare people for no reason, but as I write this I can't imagine why they would be so adamant about suggesting true sine UPS's with Enermax APFC power supplies.

So its more or less what I posted above.

output caps on the infiniti are to again quote jonny

The capacitors on the secondary side are from a company called CEC-United Electronics Ltd. I have never seen this brand before a few months ago, and every time I've seen it it's been in an Enermax power supply (Infiniti, Galaxy, etc.)

yeah could find no info...there is some sort of search thing...humm pdf'ds would be nice.

Well were they are made?,
no idea probably like everything these days china.

The TW website here

their TW address etc is at the bottom of company profile here

I think they just use agents through out the world, in the USA it seems to be divided between two company's here


Well bit strange on the caps...really might be a case of recap before use, maybe that should be abuse with high current demanding systems

cheers

[Rubycon]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

RE: Zapping noise on startup.

I will tell you this. The (Liberty 620) was the ONLY "properly functioning" device that would reproducibly trip arc fault detection on circuits. I don't like that and it gets frowned at here.

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

So does or would the Infiniti result in the same thing happening ? Rubycon

The guts look very similar but of couse there would be differences in the designs

I would possibly expect less changes on the mains Active PFC side if it was solid enough
It does ask the questions, (since bot have this zapping sound at start up)
Is it well build or is there some inherent floor.
or did they tweak it in the Infinit?

not that I know much about chips etc used for active power factor correction.
If I knew this, the app notes may give an idea to how its put together at the frontend.
(it could possibly be a propitiatory chip or possibly in house or scrubbed number job)
APFC is a much more complex bag of tricks then throwing an inductor in the circuit to some what correct for phase between current and voltage.

schematics would be nice but guess there's fat chance of them....

Just on jonny's comment on Enermax Being so "you must use with true sine UPS's"

Not that ive looked into ups in any big way,
maybe they were more so getting at the use with generator type inverters were its not liable to be a true sine wave.
My guess is that the APFC circuit is designed and optimized for a sine wave and so feeding it very distorted versions of sine waves my cause it it to not function properly resulting in failure. So they are more or less covering there rear end by saying "only use with....."

Like I said guess work, but i do sort of remember some these things can provide some crappy wave forms

Well those that work with UPS units and inverters could give a better Idea on this. just my thoughts really

Anyway Rubycon if you do get a chance to throw one of the Infiniti series on an Arc protected line let us know the results Id be interested out of curiosity.

Cheers

[severach]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

I had a Compaq Delta that unsoldered one of the small 220uf primary caps. When I replaced it I got a zapping sound on startup that would last about 30 seconds before fading to inaudible. I found it easily by putting a plastic straw in my ear and running the straw around until the sound was traced to a small 1n4007 primary diode. The diode tested fine which told me that the diode could no longer handle its rated reverse voltage and was arcing internally. I replaced it with a scavenged diode from another supply and no more arcing. Unfortunately that supply burned out a board during testing so I just disassembled it. I'm not trying to save them all.

[yanz]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

yanz,
Corsair has the VX units out now...

Yea, i have read that JG's review today. Cheap Price & high quality are good when they combine together..

[Galvanized]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Hi yanz,
The new Antec Earthwatts units are built on the same platform as the Corsair VX.
But..The Earthwatts' secondary is populated with OST (RLP?) and the VX has a population of UCC. I think Antec saves about $5 per unit.

Zippy/Emacs has the quiet and very efficient Serene units out in 400 & 500w.

[Super Nade]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

I was very apprehensive about CTC Holdings' caps, but looks like this can be problematic as well. I thought they were o.k. Perhaps this is an isolated case?
Any of you guys seen AsiaX failures lately?

As for my choice of PSU's, I'll buy only Zippy and nothing else for long term use. Not saying other units are bad or not competitive enough, but this is my preference.

[japlytic]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

These pictures goes to show that seeing is believing (Good thing the pictures of the bad capactors were referenced!)
I've had experienced bad CTC units in a set-top box as well.

[Darkside]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

I've been considering the Infiniti (Review here) for a new PC I'm building, however I dont want to worry about it failling anytime soon and was wondering if anyone has heard more about the CEC-United Electronics Ltd brand and what the cap quality is like. Also
I notice most PSUs use Teapo even for high end! Are they still bound to fail or would they be okay in a PSU?

[Sparky]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Not sure about the CEC caps.

The Teapos are fine in PSUs. They seem to just hate mobos for whatever reason. I have yet to find a failed teapo in a PSU (and I've seen a lot of PSU innards).

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

well I cant speak from vast experience but I don't think the CTC are stacking up to be a great cap.
This Enemax was subjected to a bit of brutal treatment
(I am not sure, but think it was within what the enermax should of been capable of handling)

As for teapos yes seem they are used a lot in higher end PSU's and seem to stay the distance still if your looking for real reliability Id probably go for something that uses very high quality caps and get one rated for more them you think you will pull from it.

The infinity did get a good rap (but so did the Liberty) and maybe whatever was wrong with the Liberties was quietly corrected I don't know.

I have a liberty 620W but it wasn't being pushed overly hard
since reading about the possibility of them going boom I decided to get a Corsair HX620W for the new build.
(core 2 duo 6750 3 HDD's at the moment but low/mid 8600 GT graphics)
I am not overly a gamer, not that I wouldn't mind playing a few newer ones
But with all this online activation and rootkit crap on the newer games I wont be buying any of them anyway time soon...too much BS

I think the liberty would have been ok, there was just an unknown factor there so I've left it in the old box...it was bough for the future upgrade

I think my liberty has CTC's as well I dont know but the infinity my use them.
(jonny has a review on it)

me personally wouldn't push a psu past 2/3 of rated on a (mostly) continual basis but thats my very rough rule of thumb thought on it and maybe by somewhat conservative.

Id rather use bigger and coast then smaller one driven it harder, even if it should handle the load no problem

So id probably look at the Seasoinc range if you need 700W plus and what possibly a long life out of it.(just me personally)
hunt down reviews from the likes of Jonny G's and place that do some real testing
opinions are good but they tend to vary a lot and are subject to people own preferences.

you do need to consider the supply in relation to your hardware too
like is it speced for what you want are the rails possibly going to hinder what your doing ,does it have the options you may need etc
Does it hold together well at warp 5 and 7 when its speced to run at warp 9...you get the idea.

Id then do a search and see what issues people maybe having with the brand model and what HW....bit time consuming thought

Just my thoughts on it.

Good luck

cheers

Oh I see you had jonny's review link it there LOL

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

well seems its not the ctc its the CE tul's used...if there the same as the ones in my old 350 W Enermax its still chugging along after about 5 years...last I looked they were ok and so was ESR (I think from memory)...its still chugging along

I did read around here somewhere they seem to last better in a better built supply.
Id be inclined to take a chance on them ( based on my old one) then the CTC's...but I dont think you would call them a great cap either...but not the cap guru here.

Hey Gal this mean Earthwatts with UCC equal Corsair VX....

[gonzo0815]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

I think those caps are crap. They survived in the older Enermax PSu`s that long due to the bad and ineffective cooling by the two fan system.

It is effective only for the caps, but for the system it is poor, as the intake fan is blowing the air back into the case through the rear vent holes.

I would bet, even those Fuckhiyyou or GSC caps would last a long time in there.
I once bought a EG365FMA PSu from ebay as defective.
It was still running, but not with a significant load.
After a recaped it is going strong in a AMD SKT A Barton system, which i would consider a high load at the 5 %3.3v rails.

I think there is no doubt, that Enermax PSU`s are from good quality - except caps.