Need help with what to do.. guide me please

[re-atari]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

any ideas on how to remove this clean (or the easiest way)?

I always take a small flat plier and squeeze the glue untill it breaks away. If it's crusty it will probably just desintegrate in flakes. Make sure you remove all residu on the board itself, I use a small flat screwdriver to scrape it off. You need to replace all components that were covered in the glue, as this stuff is corrosive on metal parts.

re-atari

[HelpMe14]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Everyone,

I think I am SOL. Pieces are falling off the board and not sure if it is repairable anylonger (or if I could repair it). What turned into excitement a week ago has now turned into disappointment

Have a look at the remaining pictures where I removed the 3 resistors. The lifting on the board plus the falling off of the copper. Let me know if it is beyond repair.

If it is, I want to thank you all who took the time and effort. I have learned alot and what not to do. I think my soldering technique messed it all up and should have researched that before

[Agent24]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Stop now before it gets any worse. At this stage it is probably still fixable but you need to know how to do it properly.

Have you watched the videos and do you understand what is going on? If you do, then I think you maybe just need some more practice, try soldering on some scrap boards etc.

Most of the time lifted pads are because of too much pressure, too much heat, or holding the iron on too long. Most people do all three things when they don't know how to solder properly.


Can you post photos\list of the equipment you are using and describe if you can how you are trying to remove the components? Also can you take the photos with better lighting? It is rather hard to see as they are quite dark. And they are rather small. Are you able to upload any larger sizes?

[Lumberjack777]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Exactly right Agent24

HelpMe14....until you can make your solder joints look bright and shiny like the surrounding ones; it won't work. What happened was you lifted a pad, and it broke the connection to the thin copper trace on the board. You'll need to practice, like Agent24 mentioned, on a scrap board. Those videos show how to make a nice shiny solder joint.

Since you lifted that pad (the area that is yellowish/white) you'll need to bridge the resistor lead, to the component it connected to, by seeing where that inner copper trace led to. OK? See that inner connection is now broken. And you'll need to attach a wire or a thin metal lead to where it went. So you'll need to practice your soldering before you attempt the bridge.

[HelpMe14]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Agent24,

Trust me I have stopped and yes I do know what is going on and what I have done. This was all a result of the last week when I tried to solder without having any experience or looking at the links that you all have graciously sent.

So yes, I am aware as to what I did and the things you mention such "too much pressure, too much heat, or holding the iron on too long" is definitely what I was doing before.

Now my concern is really with 2 of the wholes, one where the grey matter (washer like piece) from one of the circuits came off (in one of the photos with yellow circle) and one where there is definitely a lift and not really detached from the board (red circle in pic).

I have tried to provide bigger images but difficult to take since I do not have the best camera.

What I used was a solder iron, solder pump and needle nose pliers to simple remove the resistors once the solder was removed (from opposite side away from the circuitry).

Please have a look and advise if any of the photos are clear enough.

[Agent24]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Those photos are much better, especially the 2nd one which is the best, nice and clear. The good news is that the damage is not extensive. It will be fixable if you are careful.

But I do think I see one problem that will not help - the iron tip appears to be very oxidised and I think it could be that your iron is too powerful. How many watts is it?

[HelpMe14]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Agent24,

I would love it if it's fixable Will save me some money.

It's 30 watts (110V-120V-60hz).

I just bought this

Is it too strong?

[Agent24]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

30 watts is OK, and the maximum I would recommend in a fixed-temperature iron for this kind of work. (Personally, my fixed-temp irons are 25 watt. I have found 40 watt and above to just burn themselves out far too easily)
If you need more power than that, it's better to have an adjustable iron so you don't get overheating problems.

The tip must have become oxidised when you first tried to use it and did not tin it properly. It should be shiny and silver-coloured.

The problem with an oxidised tip is that the heat does not transfer well, the solder won't melt properly etc, so you have to hold the iron on for longer, which damages things.


First off you need to clean the tip before you try anything else or it won't work properly.
The easiest way is to get a kitchen sponge, wet it then wring it out so it's damp but not soaking wet.

Wipe the hot tip on the damp sponge then melt some solder onto it, then wipe on the sponge again. Keep repeating this until it becomes shiny and clean. If it does not come clean after several attempts of tinning and wiping, the tip may be too oxidised and the plating damaged. If that is the case you may need to get a new tip.

If it does come to that, you can first try cleaning it with some very fine grit sandpaper (when cold, after you have wiped any residue off) but this may take what's left of the plating off. If you end up down to bare copper, the tip is basically had it and you'd need to get another one.

Check these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4gmLFLYeiQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDGysGSn_8

[HelpMe14]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Thanks again.

So what are you suggesting after I clean the iron. Do I proceed to buy/add the new resistors that I removed and try and solder again?

The whole that is missing the copper/steel ring, how will the solder bond to it?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to see what happens after the iron is cleaned?

Thanks again Agent 24.

[Agent24]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

If the resistors are OK (this is where a multimeter would come in handy to check them with) you can put them back in.

If you are unsure you should probably buy new ones (cheap anyway) - plus you may need the longer lead length, because you will have to bend them over and solder them to the track or another pad on the same track where the lifted pad was.

I am not sure of any videos showing this method, but I will upload a couple of photos of some repairs I have made to tracks with lifted pads to give you some idea of what needs to happen.

Don't be sorry about asking questions, that's the whole point of the forum

[HelpMe14]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Thanks again Agent24,

I will wait for those photos before I do anything

[Agent24]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

OK, this is what I would personally do with this board to repair the lifted pad problem:

First photo shows the locations I would deal with. Area marked red I would scrape the soldermask off (very carefully, with very little pressure) with a sharp blade (scalpel, art knife, x-acto knife etc) to give the result as exampled in my 2nd photo, I would bend and cut the lead to look like in the 3rd photo, and then solder on, resulting it something like the 4th photo.

For the Blue area, I would use the solder sucker to remove the solder on that transistor lead, then I would bend the new resistor lead across to meet that pin. Solder first on the half-lifted pad, and then solder both the bent lead and original lead on the Blue pad together, to give a result such as in the 5th photo.

For all of these operations, solder the good pads first to give structural support to the resistors before you attempt the tricky parts. Hope this makes sense and my photos are clear.


If you do not have any solder wick you may wish to get some, it will make cleaning up the pads much easier.

Also, when you are done, you should clean off all the burnt flux. Methylated spirits or Isopropyl Alcohol will work well. Then inspect the pads to ensure nothing is shorted. Especially the work next to the SMD resistor RB808 as that will be the trickiest.

[reaper57]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

@Agent24 Great way to fix broken solder pads.

@HelpMe14 I think that you should be able to fix the board with Agent24's method, but if for some reason you end up messing up the trace, I can make a video/photos on how to do it with a wire. It's a bit more tricky, but it's possible.

[Agent24]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

It's a quick and fairly easy way. It's not the best way. One should put in a rivet or such in for structural support of the component. My method here is not so good if the component gets knocked as it may further tear the trace. There are proper trace repair kits that can be used for a 'real' repair. But they cost $$$

In fact that reminds me of something I did not say before - when installing the resistors to the pads that are lifted, you should use the end of the resistor where the body sits flush with the board (remember, resistors can go around either way, they are not polarised) so that you have the resistor body tight against the board on one side, and the lead bent tight against the track on the other. That way if the resistor is bumped it should not cause any additional damage as it cannot move in either direction. Of course this is not required but it's a good idea.

See the hastily-drawn diagram if that is confusing.

[saularciga]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

here is the diagram:

[Agent24]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

here is the diagram:

Great! I've attached it here too.

Not surprising then, those resistors supply current via a transistor to the Vcc pin of the PFC controller? Which if they were not connected properly would probably explain why the thing doesn't turn on.

[HelpMe14]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Thanks Agent24 and all of you once again.

So I want to make sure I am doing this correctly and that I understand all the instructions. First off, please have a look at the pic(s) attached whereby I scraped the solder mask off (img_3231) and whereby I would be connecting the resistor to (img_3232). I want to make this is right before I solder.

Secondly, from the 2 pics (img_3231 and img_3232) please let me know if the board looks clean enough now (cleaned it with iso propinol and tried to remove excess solder especially form the lift).

Lastly, the part I don't understand is what to do with the lifted piece on the board (blue piece in your picture agent24). Is what you are telling me to do is first solder a section of the resistor to this lift and then the end/beginning of the resistor solder to 0B801 on top of the pre-existing solder that is there? With the result being 2 solder marks one going to the lift and the other going to the other trace? (did I understand that right)? If so, I guess I will need to heat up the solder already on 0B801.

As for the way in which the resistor will be placed, I was told to make sure the gold color on the resistor is facing down on the front of the board. See IMG_3233 for the transistor that will be used with the gold color.

Once I am comfortable with all this, I will go and buy the remaining parts. However, I need your blessing first.

Thanks so much.

[Agent24]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

It looks pretty good. However I would make the resistor lead a little shorter, you really only want it to cover the area you scraped the soldermask off and no more. It will be easier to solder that way. Maybe make the lead cover about half the scraped area. Then you will get a nice solder fillet on the end of the lead.

Board looks clean, but make sure you clean again after you do the repair and inspect to ensure that everything is done properly.


The blue area I marked was an idea to give the repair more structural support. Because the pad near the blue area seems to be starting to lift, I would solder the resistor lead to both the half-lifted pad AND the closest pad on the same trace. You don't need to do it that way, but it might be a good idea.


Resistors can go around either way, they are not polarised so current can flow through them in either direction and they work just the same. I do advise though that for the lifted pad you situate the resistor body over that hole, and bend the lead tight against the board and scraped area as in my drawn diagram. This will ensure the resistor can't move if bumped.

EDIT: And for the lifted pad, solder the other end of the resistor to its pad first so it's not flapping about in the breeze while you try to solder the hard part.

[HelpMe14]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

Perfect Agent24.

Thanks again.

I should have mentioned that the resistor sitting was only to show you. I will definitely be cutting it so it is not that long It was more me being lazy just to show you the general idea.

I think I understand the instructions now and thanks for clarifying. I will be purchasing the parts hopefully Monday.

I will report back once (hopefully) I make progress.

Thanks again and have a great weekend.

[reaper57]

Re: Need help with what to do.. guide me please

It's a quick and fairly easy way. It's not the best way. One should put in a rivet or such in for structural support of the component. My method here is not so good if the component gets knocked as it may further tear the trace. There are proper trace repair kits that can be used for a 'real' repair. But they cost $$$

In fact that reminds me of something I did not say before - when installing the resistors to the pads that are lifted, you should use the end of the resistor where the body sits flush with the board (remember, resistors can go around either way, they are not polarised) so that you have the resistor body tight against the board on one side, and the lead bent tight against the track on the other. That way if the resistor is bumped it should not cause any additional damage as it cannot move in either direction. Of course this is not required but it's a good idea.

See the hastily-drawn diagram if that is confusing.

I said that you way of fixing pads was great, because I was going to tell him how to do it with a wire, which is harder. I would have soldered a wire and hot glued the whole thing, but your way is definitely better for beginners.

Anyway, good luck with the repair HelpMe14. Make sure you keep us posted.