Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

[senz_90]

Hi everyone, anyone on this forum ever makes a capacitor bank for vehicle battery?

I have read some site that said about this and they are mention about this could makes our vehicle battery last long and didn't hard to start.

I have a problem to start my vehicle use starter button recently, not a crank by leg. (maybe different with others country vehicle that automatic mode vehicle)
I have try to fill it with chemical battery water and charges it using UPS, but it is still hard to get start.. maybe it was defective already, and after buy the new one, I think to makes this if really could makes my battery last longer.

So the question is this capacitor bank really applicable or just a hoax?

[mariushm]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Some people have successfully used super/ultra capacitors to replace car batteries.

As supercapacitors usually are rated for 2.5-2.7v, several of them have to be used to get about 12-14 volts or more (to survive charge voltages), usually at least 8 of them are used.
Then, two or more sets are usually put in parallel to increase capacitance but even so, this fake battery would only be able to give that energy to start a car for about 10-20 seconds. If you have a bad car that needs time to start, you're screwed.

But they're expensive... you can find some used or overstock or stuff ordered for cancelled projects on eBay... those supercapacitors are about 30-50$ a piece and when you need 8+ of them...

See these videos :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJao1xLe7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM

So yeah, it still costs a lot, but on the other hand you don't have to buy batteries every again.

[budm]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

"Provision must be made to limit the initial current inrush when charging an empty supercapacitor"
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...supercapacitor

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Thank you for response, so I know this is applicable to makes this as a battery, but the price is so

I have read some site discuss it and mention about common radial lead electrolyte caps too.

How about add on common capacitor bank parallel with battery? not a supercapacitor.
I means that we are not changes battery with supercapacitor, but add an extra common electrolyte capacitor bank paralled with battery. Is that makes an effect to longer battery life?

I don't have an experience on supercapacitor and I have an idea to make one of them using common radial lead electrolyte caps as add on for battery (if true makes last longer) because the expensive price for supercapacitor.

[domas]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

"start my vehicle use starter button recently, not a crank by leg. "
-- can you rephrase?

[Hondaman]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Indonesia? Crank by leg? Perhaps it is a motorcycle, probably 250cc or smaller. I've driven a bike that had both an electric starter and a kick-start mechanism.

[domas]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

oh ok it thought what the hell was that

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Yeah, I mean kick start mechanism, Sorry. I don't know how to call it, bad english too.

did you ever experience to connect parallel caps on this battery? If this help to makes battery life last long, I would make it on my bike and car.

[domas]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

i guess you are talking about connecting a series of caps so they are 14V++ in parallel to the battery?

Well I was never interested in that solution, i do have problems with batteries as well due to being a cheap ass and using used ones on my daily car. For me, the proper solution would be putting a brand new high capacity battery + making sure charging circuit is working as it is supposed to. Other than that I would check for current leaks and so on. I do not think that caps would prolong battery life that much.

Did you try using a desulphator? I wonder if those are useful.

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

i guess you are talking about connecting a series of caps so they are 14V++ in parallel to the battery?

Well I was never interested in that solution, i do have problems with batteries as well due to being a cheap ass and using used ones on my daily car. For me, the proper solution would be putting a brand new high capacity battery + making sure charging circuit is working as it is supposed to. Other than that I would check for current leaks and so on. I do not think that caps would prolong battery life that much.

Did you try using a desulphator? I wonder if those are useful.

Yes, like this
How do you think? it said that could makes ripple on a smooth level but didn't have talking about prolong battery life, but I have ever seen other site mention it could prolong battery life.

I don't know what is desulphator. Im gonna takes a time to read it googling.

[domas]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

so you want to smooth the ripple to protect electronic components in the vehicle?

I thought caps were here to make starting current a little higher to compensate for weak battery.

Desulphator is a device to try revive weak lead acid batteries.

What is the reason for using small and big capacitors?

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

so you want to smooth the ripple to protect electronic components in the vehicle?

I thought caps were here to make starting current a little higher to compensate for weak battery.

Desulphator is a device to try revive weak lead acid batteries.

What is the reason for using small and big capacitors?

Thank you for reply
From the site I read, it said that the purpose for different values capacitor is to smooth all different ripple that battery has.

I have main intention to make a starting current a little higher as you say to compensate for weak battery. I don't think too much about electronic components on my vehicle since there is not very expensive components on vehicle, but this could be a plus advantage if this is true.

"I thought caps were here to make starting current a little higher to compensate for weak battery". From this sentences I assume this is true could makes my battery have longer life and I could start my vehicle even when condition of battery is weak?

[budm]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=30444
http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultr...ies/automotive
http://www.ioxus.com/using-ultracaps...e-definitions/
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/10/15...-use-boostcap/
http://ev.sae.org/article/12554

[tom66]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

I thought about making a car battery using super caps, and it seems like it would greatly improve life, until you work it out...

My idea was about 600F of capacitance which would provide enough crank power for most small engines, and then a small motorcycle battery to trickle charge the cap bank. The motorcycle battery provides enough power to run aux systems when not charging and is charged off a separate circuit.

Problem is, most super caps are only rated to 60C at say 1,000~2,000 hrs. An engine bay can easily hit 70~80C so your super cap lifetime could be measured in the hundreds of hours... not good.

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Problem is, most super caps are only rated to 60C at say 1,000~2,000 hrs. An engine bay can easily hit 70~80C so your super cap lifetime could be measured in the hundreds of hours... not good.

That's bad if just rated to 60C at 1000~2000 hours.
I would do this on next weekend using common radial lead caps. I am read some site that budm suggest, although those site mention all about supercaps but I guess that's not just for supercaps, common radial lead caps would do too, Time will prove it. I am consider about how hard to get this supercaps on my country and the price I am just curious the effect for my vehicle battery and start engine.

about supercaps, maybe you could try it and give the result here as guide..
If those result well, maybe the others will follow you

[Rulycat]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Would a deep cycle battery not last longer than your regular one? It'd have to supply the burst of current to run the starter motor...

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Would a deep cycle battery not last longer than your regular one? It'd have to supply the burst of current to run the starter motor...

because my english isn't too good, I don't really understand deep cycle battery means what compare with regular one? do you mean others type of battery?

My car battery is a wet battery with chemical liquid that could be to recharge and refill.

[tom66]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged to very low SOC (=state of charge) many times without significant degradation to the battery. In this application they typically don't provide a large amount of current. They aren't optimised to put out the kind of current a starter motor needs, so aren't suitable for use in a car.

Car batteries are pretty much the opposite. A car battery must provide a large current (60~150A) to turn the starter motor and get the engine running. While running, it is kept charged by the alternator and charging systems in the car, so it typically undergoes very few cycles. If you happen to stop the car but leave the lights on, you will flatten the battery in a short space of time. If you do this a few times -- sometimes even just once -- the battery can be permanently ruined and it will not be able to start the car any more, even if it charges properly. The only real cycles the car battery undergoes are due to systems like the alarm and power locks which require small maintenance currents, but they rarely discharge the battery fully unless the car is left unattended for a long period of time.

[selldoor]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

I wouldnt have thought a UPS would be good to charge a battery.?
Needs more like 13.5-15vdc? Use a proper car battery charger and if
car is not used often for long journeys give it a charge every 2 weeks or so.
Maybe the climate where you are is not good for long battery life?

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged to very low SOC (=state of charge) many times without significant degradation to the battery. In this application they typically don't provide a large amount of current. They aren't optimised to put out the kind of current a starter motor needs, so aren't suitable for use in a car.

Car batteries are pretty much the opposite. A car battery must provide a large current (60~150A) to turn the starter motor and get the engine running. While running, it is kept charged by the alternator and charging systems in the car, so it typically undergoes very few cycles. If you happen to stop the car but leave the lights on, you will flatten the battery in a short space of time. If you do this a few times -- sometimes even just once -- the battery can be permanently ruined and it will not be able to start the car any more, even if it charges properly. The only real cycles the car battery undergoes are due to systems like the alarm and power locks which require small maintenance currents, but they rarely discharge the battery fully unless the car is left unattended for a long period of time.

thank you so much with this explanation, this makes me understand a bit, but I am not expert on vehicle system and didn't know what type of my battery and his charge system.

I wouldnt have thought a UPS would be good to charge a battery.?
Needs more like 13.5-15vdc? Use a proper car battery charger and if
car is not used often for long journeys give it a charge every 2 weeks or so.
Maybe the climate where you are is not good for long battery life?

I have measure the output of UPS is around 14vdc. I use this because my UPS battery use a same battery like my vehicle battery, although the brand of vehicle is different.
I have think to build myself a new charger circuit from linear transformer but I will try to build this caps bank too, because im curious of the effect for my battery.

I don't think the climate would be the caused, my country just have a 2 seasons. I don't know how to describe it but my country just has a spring and summer. tropic country just like some Asia country.