Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

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  • davg
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Sep 2008
    • 536
    • Canada

    #21
    Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

    Originally posted by budm
    That cap is for the DC power supply for running the electronics on the board.
    So from the picture: This must be reverse-able motor.
    The Yellow and the Green wires are for the motor's brushes?
    The Blue and White wires are for the Stator motor winding?
    The slide switch on the board, is that for forward/reverse motor function if you have paper jammed?
    That is correct it is reversible? The slide switch is Auto - off - reverse. When set to auto the sensor starts the unit
    Last edited by davg; 06-12-2012, 07:12 PM.

    Comment

    • 999999999
      Badcaps Veteran
      • Sep 2006
      • 774
      • USA

      #22
      Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

      lol, I am reminded how much of a headache I get trying to trace circuits from random pics. Can you trace the circuit back a bit and with power off, measure resistance with the slide switch flipped one way, then the other? Looking at the switch contacts as two columns in the picture of the back of the PCB, the first two rows of contacts in each column should read very near zero resistance between each other when the switch is flipped that direction, and vice versa for when the switch is flipped the other direction.

      Comment

      • budm
        Badcaps Legend
        • Feb 2010
        • 40746
        • USA

        #23
        Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

        That is common function for shredder, my has the same but it uses micro switch for sensing paper.
        Any how, you are reading only 57VAC on the brush connections? They may have the Stator and the rotor winding in series setup.
        That is why good clear pictures are important when you do not have the board right in front of you.
        Last edited by budm; 06-12-2012, 07:29 PM.
        Never stop learning
        Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

        Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

        Inverter testing using old CFL:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

        Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
        http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

        TV Factory reset codes listing:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

        Comment

        • davg
          Badcaps Veteran
          • Sep 2008
          • 536
          • Canada

          #24
          Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

          Originally posted by 999999999
          lol, I am reminded how much of a headache I get trying to trace circuits from random pics. Can you trace the circuit back a bit and with power off, measure resistance with the slide switch flipped one way, then the other? Looking at the switch contacts as two columns in the picture of the back of the PCB, the first two rows of contacts in each column should read very near zero resistance between each other when the switch is flipped that direction, and vice versa for when the switch is flipped the other direction.
          Forgive me put on the attached picture which contacts should be near zero resistance?
          Attached Files

          Comment

          • budm
            Badcaps Legend
            • Feb 2010
            • 40746
            • USA

            #25
            Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

            Does the motor run the same speed in both direction? If it does, then that will eliminate the contact resistance problem.
            When the slide switch is in the left position (base on the picture with numbers)
            1 and 2 should be 0 ohm.
            5 and 6 should be 0 Ohm
            when move it all the way to the right position
            3 and 4 should be 0 Ohm
            7 and 8 should be 0 Ohm
            Never stop learning
            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

            Inverter testing using old CFL:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

            TV Factory reset codes listing:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

            Comment

            • davg
              Badcaps Veteran
              • Sep 2008
              • 536
              • Canada

              #26
              Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

              Originally posted by budm
              Does the motor run the same speed in both direction? If it does, then that will eliminate the contact resistance problem.
              When the slide switch is in the left position (base on the picture with numbers)
              1 and 2 should be 0 ohm.
              5 and 6 should be 0 Ohm
              when move it all the way to the right position
              3 and 4 should be 0 Ohm
              7 and 8 should be 0 Ohm
              The motor do run the same speed in both directions. The resistance is 0 ohms on these contacts with the switch in the designated position. Just to confirm; To supply 120 vac to the 120 volt motor, the yellow and the green is L1 and L2 with the Blue and White being the two field poles. How would I connect it to bypass the board?
              Last edited by davg; 06-13-2012, 05:27 AM.

              Comment

              • selldoor
                Slow Learner
                • Dec 2010
                • 7870

                #27
                Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                When you say the motor runs slow what are you comparing it with?.
                How long does it take to shred a sheet?
                Please upload pictures using attachment function when ask for help on the repair
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39740

                Comment

                • davg
                  Badcaps Veteran
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 536
                  • Canada

                  #28
                  Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                  Originally posted by selldoor
                  When you say the motor runs slow what are you comparing it with?.
                  How long does it take to shred a sheet?
                  That is compared to when it worked properly. About 10 sec working properly to approx 40 sec now.

                  Comment

                  • selldoor
                    Slow Learner
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 7870

                    #29
                    Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                    ok i believe normal max is about 3meters per minute. Is there any detail on the motor that might help us find the specs for it?
                    Please upload pictures using attachment function when ask for help on the repair
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39740

                    Comment

                    • budm
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 40746
                      • USA

                      #30
                      Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                      Can you remove the motor from the assembly so you can run it without the load, and since it uses the gear reduction to run the shredder assembly, can you crank the assembly by hand using the same gear that the motor is attached to just to find out how hard it is to move the blades.
                      I believe the stator and the rotor windings are connected in series, and they reverse the direction by switching either the stator or rotor winding connection.
                      I still do have the time to draw up the wiring diagram yet.
                      Never stop learning
                      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                      Inverter testing using old CFL:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                      TV Factory reset codes listing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                      Comment

                      • 999999999
                        Badcaps Veteran
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 774
                        • USA

                        #31
                        Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                        He could also check voltage across a different combo of wires going to the motor to see if any combo is at ~ 120VAC. Since the cutters turn ok with the gear removed it seems as though either not enough voltage is getting to the motor or it has a short in the windings.

                        OR what I mentioned earlier, that the blades are really dull and it's choking on the paper which would make it run significantly faster with a narrow piece of paper vs a full width piece.
                        Last edited by 999999999; 06-13-2012, 12:55 PM.

                        Comment

                        • budm
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 40746
                          • USA

                          #32
                          Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                          Good suggestion, 9999999.
                          Never stop learning
                          Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                          Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                          Inverter testing using old CFL:
                          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                          Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                          http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                          TV Factory reset codes listing:
                          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                          Comment

                          • davg
                            Badcaps Veteran
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 536
                            • Canada

                            #33
                            Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                            Originally posted by 999999999
                            He could also check voltage across a different combo of wires going to the motor to see if any combo is at ~ 120VAC. Since the cutters turn ok with the gear removed it seems as though either not enough voltage is getting to the motor or it has a short in the windings.

                            OR what I mentioned earlier, that the blades are really dull and it's choking on the paper which would make it run significantly faster with a narrow piece of paper vs a full width piece.
                            Thanks all the motor runs the same with or without load. Gears removed or paper in? The problem is either in the motor or in the board. As soon as I can find a drawing to hookup the motor straight and bypass the main board I can narrow down the problem even further.

                            Comment

                            • budm
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 40746
                              • USA

                              #34
                              Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                              I am beginning to think the same as 99999 that the motor may have shorted turn in the windings.
                              Never stop learning
                              Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                              Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                              Inverter testing using old CFL:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                              Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                              http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                              TV Factory reset codes listing:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                              Comment

                              • budm
                                Badcaps Legend
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 40746
                                • USA

                                #35
                                Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                                By the way, that big white power resistor 0.6 Ohm is in series with the motor, can you check and see if it read less than 1 Ohm?
                                Never stop learning
                                Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                Comment

                                • budm
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Feb 2010
                                  • 40746
                                  • USA

                                  #36
                                  Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                                  OK, I figured out how it works, see simplified diagram attached.
                                  The Rotor winding is connected in series with Stator winding, depend on how you connect them together, you can make it run forward or backward by reversing the Rotor winding connection, very simple, as long as the two windings are in series, the motor will run.
                                  Attached Files
                                  Never stop learning
                                  Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                  Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                  Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                  Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                  http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                  TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                  Comment

                                  • selldoor
                                    Slow Learner
                                    • Dec 2010
                                    • 7870

                                    #37
                                    Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                                    Have we mentioned checking the brushes are not too worn or are the slides clogged with dust so the brushes are not seating correctly. When it is running are there a lot of sparks from the commutator, I recall you did say you had cleaned the gaps.
                                    Please upload pictures using attachment function when ask for help on the repair
                                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39740

                                    Comment

                                    • davg
                                      Badcaps Veteran
                                      • Sep 2008
                                      • 536
                                      • Canada

                                      #38
                                      Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                                      Originally posted by budm
                                      OK, I figured out how it works, see simplified diagram attached.
                                      The Rotor winding is connected in series with Stator winding, depend on how you connect them together, you can make it run forward or backward by reversing the Rotor winding connection, very simple, as long as the two windings are in series, the motor will run.
                                      Thanks for the drawing budm great job. Problem solved. The problem was with the motor as someone indicated (cheap motor). I removed the motor completely and dissembled it to find that the wire connection to one of the brushes was broken. and one of the bearings was worn badly. I can replace the brush but the bearings are actually bushings and finding a replacements could prove impossible? Cheaper to buy new.

                                      Comment

                                      • budm
                                        Badcaps Legend
                                        • Feb 2010
                                        • 40746
                                        • USA

                                        #39
                                        Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                                        Well at least you know how it is wired up now, I thought you had check the brushes in post 9 and indicating that they were OK. Live and learn.
                                        Never stop learning
                                        Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                        Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                        Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                        Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                        http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                        TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                        Comment

                                        • davg
                                          Badcaps Veteran
                                          • Sep 2008
                                          • 536
                                          • Canada

                                          #40
                                          Re: Init Paper Shredder sensor circuit

                                          Originally posted by budm
                                          Well at least you know how it is wired up now, I thought you had check the brushes in post 9 and indicating that they were OK. Live and learn.
                                          Thanks again and yes I did check but I only removed the one on top easy to get at?? (making to many assumptions) your are right "live and learn". That drawing is a useful thing to have around.

                                          Comment

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