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Old 06-13-2006, 10:10 AM   #1
trodas
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Red face Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

About a year or so ago I got suspicous that my Enermax 431W is not enought, holding back my O/C and cause problems in general, so I - based on this very positive review: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article177-page1.html
It was amazing PSU back there and don't let the relatively low 480W rating confuse you - it pack two 12V rails with 18 and 16A - so, plenty of power to overclock and have hi-end GFX card at this date.
Anyway, the terrible death of the Chemi-con KZG caps in my DFI LP B could be attributed to the fact, that this PSU use Fuhjyyu caps - known bad brand.
In short, the suspiction of many BadCap members (davemax above all) is probably right. I should measure by oscilloscope and better, but what the hell...
Recently one of my DFI LP B recapped boards start crashing. Since it just get hotter there, I looked on cooling and stuff, but things get more and more often, so I replaced the PSU with Enermax 600W one and with slight suspicion on the Antex and - no crash since them. My DFI is well recapped, after all

So I smell the Antec and - damn - it smell after bad caps
So I opened it up and what the hell is this?!



Yep, a leaking like hell Fuhjyyu cap! (the one more close to the cam is just bulging and bend quite to the cam ange, since it's rubber sealing are pushing off...)

So I quickly checked the BadCaps forum list and yep, Fuhjyyu caps are known bad caps. But wait, the PSU is full of them!







Recapping is in order, seems. And bad caps aren't all that is bad there! WTF is this?!



There was a PVC isulation on the resistor, but it burned in... The resistor has now 1,9k ohm, yet I somewhat dubt that that high walue is original one...

At least the big cap (there is only one?!) is Rubby:



The list of parts need for recapping this suxxka:

1x Rubycon 330uF 400V 85C x25 x 45
4x Fuhjyyu 3300uF 10V TMR 105C r10 x 30
2x Fuhjyyu 2200uF 16V TMR 105C r10 x 30
2x Fuhjyyu 1000uF r8 x 17
C4 - 1uF 50V r4 x 8
C12 - 10uF 50V r5 x 8
C56 - 10uF 16V r5 x 8
C23 - 220uF 16V r6.5 x 11
C22 - 470uF 25V r8 x 16
C58 - OST RLG cap 22uF 50V r5 x 11
C17 - 22uF 16V r5 x 11
C - unknown, but very close to the C58 - 47uF 25V r5 x 11
(all caps is Fuhjyyu, except the two mentioned - one Ruby, one OST)

And I also need 1x R117 - dunno witch resistance, going to ask Antec support, hehe, that will be fun
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:41 AM   #2
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

I have a bunch of the same Fuhjyyu's in a bin, all bloated, Antec 430W... Getting skinny caps to replace those is a pain in the butt...
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Old 06-13-2006, 01:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Whoo-freakin'-hoo.

Thanks for showing us this, looks like I won't be considering an Antec this time around. Good designs, but those caps...
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Old 06-13-2006, 02:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Yea, a friend to me has a Antec Truepower 2.0 480w

Full of Fuhjyyu caps

They have not bulged yet but it will need recapping soon... Stay away from Antec in general, see this thread...
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Old 06-13-2006, 09:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

From my experience it seems to be a good policy to check all power supplies (new or used) for bad cap brands and if present replace with known quality caps. Power supply performance and integrity is of course very important.

Trodas you are giving very good inputs. Thanks.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:13 AM   #6
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Red face Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

MD Willington - yep, these caps like to leak and bulge... Only two mine does that, tough the machine was entierly unstable thanks to the PSU at just 2500Mhz... (that is where O/C begin, so I won't call that O/C at all...)
And you hit the problem properly. While recapping the PSU is not a problem and minutes of work only, the real pain will be to get such thick cap's - these 4x 3300uF 10V and 2x 2200uF 16V ones. Given the crowded space there it seems next to impossible use 12,5mm ones (Pannyes FM/FC), so I have to look harder. Big Pope says that 2200uF 16V Samxons GD with diamater 10mm are made, but they are VERY RARE, so... Also 3300uF with r10 is possible to get in Samxons, however they are 6.3V only. Now time to check the rails, because I think that since the 2200uF ones are on the 12V rail, the rest is for 5 and 3.3V rails - clearly low enought voltages for 6.3V caps. But let me check it first


Shroomie - actually, they used one Rubycon cap, hehe Yep, but then killed the rest with Fuhjyyu caps... Great...


Per Hansson - and I suppose they are also r10 mm ones, right? Now the questios is not whatever to be or not to be (errr, recap or not to recap) but rather what caps to use, as the r10mm ones in the higher capacity are very rare. Mainly these two 2200uF 16V ones... If the rails permit using 6.3V caps instead the 10V ones, then the other four are fine...


davmax - agree with you. Time to check all my PSU's to get the caps to replace them before they starting to make troubles...
And thanks

Another challenge (apart from the r10 caps) will be the true original value of the R117. I'm going to ask Antec support, hehe, that will be fun
We can start betting with what excuse to not tell me what original resistance the R117 in Antec NEO 480W PSU has... I think that they come up with "we did not disclose exact technical specification's of our product under any circumstances, but we appreciate your concern..."

Quote:
Hello, Antec support.

I need this email get forwarded to technical department, please.
My question is very simple, yet rather technical.
Thanks.

The question - what is original the value of the R117 resistor into
the Antec 480W "NEO" PSU? Mine got a little bit burned beyond
recognition and it has now 1.9k ohm resistance. Is this the original
one, or what is the original resistance?

BTW, it get burned because the used cap's are bad brand, Fuhjyyu,
and I going to replace them in order to fix the PSU and make it working
well again Long after warranty, of course, but I like it, so, please
a little help?

Thanks!
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

i see the following stripes on the resistor : red white (cant see) gold
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by trodas
Per Hansson - and I suppose they are also r10 mm ones, right? Now the questios is not whatever to be or not to be (errr, recap or not to recap) but rather what caps to use, as the r10mm ones in the higher capacity are very rare. Mainly these two 2200uF 16V ones... If the rails permit using 6.3V caps instead the 10V ones, then the other four are fine...
Yes trodas they are d10mm (not r10, that would be radius 10mm so diameter 20mm , ok enough nitpicking )

And as you can imagine that is the reason I have not recapped it yet, I'm also having great troubles finding suitable capacitors... And I'd rather not use anything bar from the 5 major Japanese brands, since it is not my own and I will not be able to monitor if they fail after a few years of use...

Though I do think the Fuhjyyu 3300F caps are overrated, i.e. I do not think they can provide 3300F, even when they are brand new, that is just my own theory though so please don't quote me on it elsewhere...
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by willawake
i see the following stripes on the resistor : red white (cant see) gold
Can you scrape the rest of the pink off the resistor so we can see all four colors?
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Quote:
MD Willington - yep, these caps like to leak and bulge... Only two mine does that, tough the machine was entierly unstable thanks to the PSU at just 2500Mhz... (that is where O/C begin, so I won't call that O/C at all...)
And you hit the problem properly. While recapping the PSU is not a problem and minutes of work only, the real pain will be to get such thick cap's - these 4x 3300uF 10V and 2x 2200uF 16V ones. Given the crowded space there it seems next to impossible use 12,5mm ones (Pannyes FM/FC), so I have to look harder. Big Pope says that 2200uF 16V Samxons GD with diamater 10mm are made, but they are VERY RARE, so... Also 3300uF with r10 is possible to get in Samxons, however they are 6.3V only. Now time to check the rails, because I think that since the 2200uF ones are on the 12V rail, the rest is for 5 and 3.3V rails - clearly low enought voltages for 6.3V caps. But let me check it first
I bought Nichicon PW.. very fat, I'm trying to recap it a bit different, raising the PCB on standoffs and putting the fans external for a bit more room... May work.. Hopefully I will get some time to do it soon.. There is just too much going on right now, so it's on the shelf.
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

It's reasonably well-made and stuffed with Fuhjyyus, so I suspect it's a Channel-Well. Do the transformers have CW or CWT printed on them?

In a pinch, I've used Chemicon KMG 2200/10v 10mm caps to replace 10mm Fuhjyyus, although they're not low ESR. They'll be OK for non-critical use.
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by willawake
i see the following stripes on the resistor : red white (cant see) gold
Well spotted - I hadn't seen the stripes peeking through at first. The first one could also be brown, which would make the resistor 1.9x10^something.

If that were the case, and that third band were to be a red, then trodas' measurement of 1.9K would be confirmed.
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

I ran into the same problem replacing those skinny fuyou caps on a couple of my Antecs. After removing all the caps it became apparent that a few 12.5mm caps (panny FM's) would fit with a bit of offsetting. If you have a surplus of molex connectors, those wires can also be removed off the board giving you that bit of extra space by the 3.3v and ground rails. A hammer works well too as a last resort after all, it is an Antec.
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Old 06-16-2006, 04:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

i recognice that logo of Fuhjyyu. i found those tnr or tmr caps in my fortron, they are under 330uF iirc.

one of my friend have a same dead antec (480w neo), he refuse to open it so he return it to the shop (warrantee from the shop). he have acbell now .
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Old 06-18-2006, 01:31 AM   #15
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Wink Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

To think Antec would have the world believe that their PSU's are high-end, the stuff overclocker's dreams are made of

For what it's worth 4x 3300uF 10v are cactus in my Antec TruePower 380 too, to think I've had more reliability from cheap generic PSUs
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Old 06-20-2006, 04:28 AM   #16
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Red face Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

willawake - well, you see bad The first one is brown (eg. 1), the second is white (eg. 2) and there is one completely missing one (probably red one to indicate 1900 ohms as I measured) before the last gold one, witch means 5% tolerance.
I still need to determine that for SURE, so I need someone with Antec PSU (dead or not) who can open and take a look - there is originally a protective sleeve on this R117 resistor, tough...

Per Hansson - sorry, I'm used to write r10, as in Czech language wwe use r... D is much more correct for english forum, I try stick by it next time Thanks for good point there, you damn nitpicker

About the tall caps - just wait a little, if Big Pope could really provide them to me - then your problem is fixed. Fuhjyyu caps being overrater or not won't mater much for me, when I see them bulging and leaking (and killing my DFI board) ... I really see no reason to dig whatever these caps specs are and if the are meet at least after 5sec of usage or not
Let's KILL THEM WITH AC VOLTAGE!


jonnyGURU - I'm sorry, there is not much to scrape off at all. What you see is resistor, that already scrapped itself under extreme overheating and what you see are the cunductive traces (!!!) on the resistor core itself. They are not anymore covered with the protective paint or whatever it is - but it was protecting them from oxidation and running PSU with resistor damaged like that is not IMHO wise.


MD Willington - sure it may work, but I would vote against it for two reasons. First - into every voltage regulator specs you can read that the caps should be as close to it, as possible. Adding a long wires there won't help anything, I'm affraid. Also, if you push them up, you have to remove the fan from the normal place and place it outside of the PSU casing. Then your PSU won't fit into most mainboard cases...
But yea, it might work again - I rather wait for the right caps


linuxguru - it was sold to me for premium price and as Antec - even the Antec logo is pressured on the PSU side panel... It should be Antec, tough it don't matter much now
And KMG are nowhere near the Samxons GD specs, so it sure restore the PSU functionality, yet won't fully restore it's power... And that is what I aiming at.


tiresias - yep, a small part of the stripes remained there, and the first one is brown. Unfortunately I can't find any piece of the last one left, so I need now a Antec user... Anyone?


Mustang - you actually managed to fit there Pannyes? Whoa whoa, a pic is possible? I would say that it is very hard or impossible, because the four 3300uF 10V ones (could be 6.3 used there too) are so close to each other and there is so much wires around, that ... well, it is possible, like everything, but... pretty hard and they has to have a long legs and be a bit higher over the PCB that these d10 ones that just fit there, right?
And could you pretty please look at the R117 for it's stripes colors?


yanz - mine is after warranty Anyway, I think that the warranty is a trick. They created the PSU fan loud, so I had to mod it in the first place, so warranty is usless to me, unless I want suffer with noise, witch I strictly refuse... So they could claim 10 years warranty - silent freak user lost the warranty when he had to mod the PSU fan (replace to other one, power it from 7V ...) ...


tazwegion - indeed they did. Now the same fooling is out there on DFI forums about OCZ PSUs, full of - TEAPOS!!!
( http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56164 )
I tried to tell them, but they won't listen and ... the longer posts of NEOAyetyr for who his OCZ PSU is dying already was even removed... Well, everything for the sake of sale, right? But I think they will regret it. 3 years warranty these Teapos can't made, unless miracle happen...

Quote:
are cactus in my Antec TruePower 380
What do you mean by that? That they are leaking, bulging and dying?


Anyway, Big Pope claim that there is no PSU with good caps. I don't know, but NEOAyethyr Enermax is full of Jpcon caps, witch are bad ones too. And who can tell me, what is wrong on THIS picture:


(Fortron Epsilon 700)

My new Enermax Liberty 620W have inside CTC VENT FM caps...
1x 390uF 400V 85C d25 x 45 HP3 ...???
4x 3300uF 10V d10 x 34
2x 3300uF 16V d10 x 34
2x 1000uF 10V d8 x 18
1x 1500uF 10V d10 x 23
4x 10uF 50V
3x 2.2uF 50V
1x 22uF 50V
All are the Pce-tum(r) ones, clearly marked as bad caps...

So it looks like Big Pope is right.
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Old 06-20-2006, 05:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

...That's just depressing...
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Old 06-21-2006, 05:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by trodas
Anyway, Big Pope claim that there is no PSU with good caps. I don't know, but NEOAyethyr Enermax is full of Jpcon caps, witch are bad ones too. And who can tell me, what is wrong on THIS picture:
(Fortron Epsilon 700)
If I may say so, that statement should be qualified a little, in the sense that while, admittedly, it is rare (not impossible though) to find a PSU with Rubycon/Sanyo/UCC output caps, there is a huge difference between the better Taiwanese caps (say Teapo, or Taicon which does indeed appear to be rebranded Nichicon) and the worst, such as Rulycon or Chhsi.

JPce-tur is also one of the better "bad caps", at least, judging from their relatively low failure rate in Enermax PSUs where they are found.

As with most things in life, a cap brand isn't simply "good" or "bad", obviously - there's a whole gamut of quality out there...

...

PS. What's wrong with that picture? Those heatsinks really could be a little larger for a 700W rated PSU!
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Old 06-21-2006, 02:17 PM   #19
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Red face Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Shroomie - yep. Very. Tought at least these "better of the bad caps" could produce enought lifetime to pass the warranty (mostly), so...


tiresias - I'm not looked to much PSUs, since I know witch brands of caps to avoid, yet all I opened has bad caps inside. I'm in no possition to judge (I know too little and opened too few brands of PSUs), however it somewhat fit my persons experience and experiences of others that do care about caps so well, that I think it has some more truth in it, that we might like...

I would love to see a picture of PSU with good caps inside, so if you stumble upon one, please post. I'm sure most BadCaps members will applaud you!

Teapos are rebranded Nichicons? Now as far as I know, re-branding is simply selling the products of one company under the name of other one. Therefore Teapos should be one of quite wanted caps, because Nichicon can produce greatest cap's on Earth - their HZ line - and in general, their caps are widely accepted for their superior quality and long lifetime w/o bulging, leaking and stuff...

While Teapos are notorious for bulging (not that much that GSC ones, tough) and leaking a little (smell) and performing just great at start, but quickly turning worser and worser and...

Now if they are just rebranded Nichicons - would almost all of us face the problems with them or not?

I simply dubt that statement to be true. Can you prove it?


And no no no, I did not willing to give Teapos shoot into MY hardware. Not ANYMORE!

Other than that, I have to entierly agree with you that simplifying things as good or bad is just manner of stupid morons like George Walker Bush ("Either you are with us, or agains us!" -actual quote) ...
In life, there is a whole shade of grey between black and white and so we do experience that in cap's world too. There are even some Teapo experiences that show them run long life w/o problems. And in some cases, they just blew off after month of usage. Sapphire "Grouper" A9RX480 preproduction boards use Teapos and frequently die on hands of reviewers - Sapphire now use Nichicon caps and they hold extraordinary well. I'm yet about to experience a crash of my machine


PS. yep, the size of the heatsink is laughable and I won't be satisfacted finding THAT in 350W PSU. Clearly off the mark in 700W rated one, but that is not what I see. I see CapXon cap - clearly a BAD CAP as the main big one! Now that is just... Damn, even Antec that use Fuhjyyu crap ones use there a Ruby!!! Fortron Epsilon 700 -
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Old 06-21-2006, 03:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by trodas
Teapos are rebranded Nichicons? Now as far as I know, re-branding is simply selling the products of one company under the name of other one.
You're right, "rebranded" was the wrong word. I believe this issue was discussed briefly on the "Supermicro-Ablecom PSUs" thread... I believe our observations went something like:

- Taicon is a Taiwanese daughter company of Nichicon
- Taicon's caps are produced in both Taiwan and (mainland) China
- Specs for Taicon HL seem to be identical for those for Nichicon HN, suggesting the two to be indeed "analogs" of each other
- It may indeed be that the failed Taicons were merely the cousins of the failing Nichicon HN
- Then again, it may indeed be that Taicon's QC isn't as good as Nichicon Japan's - something which we cannot, at present, disprove or confirm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trodas
Other than that, I have to entierly agree with you that simplifying things as good or bad is just manner of stupid morons like George Walker Bush ("Either you are with us, or agains us!" -actual quote) ...
A somewhat politically "hot" statement, if I may say so... But indeed, the material world in which we live is practically never black or white.

About the non-redundant ATX/EPS PSUs which routinely use Japanese output caps - I know a number of Zippy/Emacs and also Delta units which use Rubycon or UCC. I'll see if I can post a few photos later on... I do recall having seen them on the web.
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