High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

[TractorGear]

The GPS Tracker I have (a TK102B) uses a 3.7 Volt BL-5B battery. Ratings up to 1000 maH seem common.

Here's an example of the type of battery I'm talking about:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nokia-BL-5B-Battery-5140i-5300-XpressMusic-6020-6021-6061-7260-N80-6120-Classic-/361240050892?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541b95bccc

I has occurred to me that most of these batteries come from China, and some of those manufacturers could be unscrupulous. One way to increase the value of a substandard product is to put a label that claims it's a high-capacity battery, and who would know? How would they know?

So that is part one of my question. I'm currently looking for the highest capacity BL-5B battery I can find, and I've found some on AliBaba that are rated at 2950 mAh, but I'd like to know if there is some way to test a batteries capacity other than an "anecdotal" test of comparing standby times on the same cell phone or similar. Is there a way to quickly drain or use a battery and measure it's capacity?

Part two has to do with making a non-BL-5B supplemental battery pack using multiple 3.7 "AA" sized batteries and connecting them in parallel. Shouldn't I be able to simply hard-wire (solder) a 3 or 4 battery pack somehow to the contacts that connect to the GPS Tracker's BL-5B? The main goal here is to dramatically increase the standby life of the GPS Tracker unit. The unit uses (roughly) 250 mAh per day, so a 750 mAh battery lasts 3 days (72 hours), a 1000 mAh lasts 4 days, etc...

My thinking is that if I can package a battery pack that delivers 10,000 mAh, the tracker will last over a month, and can be used for overseas shipping containers, etc... where power is not available and shipping times are measured in weeks.

[sofTest]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

I use a universal Li-ion battery charger similar to this to test and charge small batteries like BL-5B. Mine shows the capacity during charging, and fully charged capacity, in the display.

As for building your own battery packs, I don't exactly see why. Your tracker seem to have a standard micro USB connector for charging. Your should therefore be able to hook up any standard 5V/USB power bank to the tracker. These power banks comes in a wide range of capacities, that should cover the need you describes.

[TractorGear]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

I use a universal Li-ion battery charger similar to this to test and charge small batteries like BL-5B. Mine shows the capacity during charging, and fully charged capacity, in the display.

As for building your own battery packs, I don't exactly see why. Your tracker seem to have a standard micro USB connector for charging. Your should therefore be able to hook up any standard 5V/USB power bank to the tracker. These power banks comes in a wide range of capacities, that should cover the need you describes.

Thanks I didn't know there was such a thing as a 5V/USB "power bank". Do you have a link, or searchable text?

Also, the charger in the link provided has a 2000 mAh limit, and one battery I've found (so far) claims to hold up to 2950 mAh. My understanding of batteries and how they work is admittedly weak, but I am suspicious of a charger that claims to be able to report how much power is being stored on a battery as it is charging. It might be accurate, but I'd like to know why rather than take the manufacturer's word for it. My instinct is that the proof of a battery's charge capacity is on discharge. It seems to me that the "real" measurement takes place during discharge and not charge, but then this is all instinct. Example conventional wisdom is to use a voltage reading to determine if a batter is good or bad. That has never sat well with me, so I've learned to distrust what "everyone" thinks. Another general impression I have is when you run a computer off a battery back-up. It will tell you directly how much power (watts) is being used to run the computer, and you can objectively measure how long the computer will run before the battery dies. I'm hoping for something like that; where I'm not blindly relying on what might be a completely inaccurate method.

Reason for this is (to give some numbers), a basic BL-5B battery (say 800 mAh) can be easily had for less than $3.00. A "high-capacity" BL-5B sells for about $10.00 on Ali Baba Express, which is 3+ times the cost for 3+ times the capacity. But what if they've taken a lower-grade battery and simply re-wrapped it with a new label that only claims "2900 mAh", but cannot deliver. I'm thinking about reselling these, and I don't want justifiably angry retail customers wanting their money back because the 2900 mAh battery I sold them only stores 900 mAh when brand-new. And I'd rather not rely on possibly inaccurate readings from a simple, basic meter before getting too financially involved in the situation.

Is there some kind of "discharge method" of measuring battery power in areas outside of cell phone batteries, and can it be applied to cell phone batteries?

[sofTest]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

Thanks I didn't know there was such a thing as a 5V/USB "power bank". Do you have a link, or searchable text?

If I search "USB power bank" in eBay, I get at least 20.000 hits...

Also, the charger in the link provided has a 2000 mAh limit, and one battery I've found (so far) claims to hold up to 2950 mAh. My understanding of batteries and how they work is admittedly weak, but I am suspicious of a charger that claims to be able to report how much power is being stored on a battery as it is charging. It might be accurate, but I'd like to know why rather than take the manufacturer's word for it. My instinct is that the proof of a battery's charge capacity is on discharge. It seems to me that the "real" measurement takes place during discharge and not charge, but then this is all instinct. Example conventional wisdom is to use a voltage reading to determine if a batter is good or bad. That has never sat well with me, so I've learned to distrust what "everyone" thinks. Another general impression I have is when you run a computer off a battery back-up. It will tell you directly how much power (watts) is being used to run the computer, and you can objectively measure how long the computer will run before the battery dies. I'm hoping for something like that; where I'm not blindly relying on what might be a completely inaccurate method.

Reason for this is (to give some numbers), a basic BL-5B battery (say 800 mAh) can be easily had for less than $3.00. A "high-capacity" BL-5B sells for about $10.00 on Ali Baba Express, which is 3+ times the cost for 3+ times the capacity. But what if they've taken a lower-grade battery and simply re-wrapped it with a new label that only claims "2900 mAh", but cannot deliver. I'm thinking about reselling these, and I don't want justifiably angry retail customers wanting their money back because the 2900 mAh battery I sold them only stores 900 mAh when brand-new. And I'd rather not rely on possibly inaccurate readings from a simple, basic meter before getting too financially involved in the situation.

Is there some kind of "discharge method" of measuring battery power in areas outside of cell phone batteries, and can it be applied to cell phone batteries?

Out from how my charger rate a new battery, compared with known quality manufacturers rating of their batteries, my charger is fairly accurate. Testing batteries that I have suspecting starting getting weak, has shown capacities as suspected. For the price, this has been a nice tool for me.

If I were to become a reseller, I probably would invest in a professional battery tester. I don't have a need for one, so I can't give any recommendation.

[kc8adu]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

if the stock pack is 800mah,hi capacity 1000mah and the 2900 chinese mah are the same size then you are likely going to be dissapointed.
this overrated pack will be lucky to do as much as the stock oem pack.
its like 18650's.
highest legitimate capacity is the rare 3600 panasonic.
imagine my surprise to see some no name ultrafire crap marked 7800!

[domas]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

i wouldn't buy batteries from alibaba and ebay. BTDT many times, got disappointed.

I would rather get high quality panasonic / sanyo 18650 cells, even used if that was the case.

What tracker do you use?

[TractorGear]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

if the stock pack is 800mah,hi capacity 1000mah and the 2900 chinese mah are the same size then you are likely going to be dissapointed. this overrated pack will be lucky to do as much as the stock oem pack. its like 18650's. highest legitimate capacity is the rare 3600 panasonic. imagine my surprise to see some no name ultrafire crap marked 7800!

I've seen those "Ultrafire" batteries being sold and they are what I'm suspicious of.

Both of these posts confirm for me that I should be suspicious, but again it goes back to finding an accurate testing method to know for certain.

i wouldn't buy batteries from alibaba and ebay. BTDT many times, got disappointed. I would rather get high quality panasonic / sanyo 18650 cells, even used if that was the case. What tracker do you use?

The tracker I'm looking at is a TK102B, which comes with 2 BL-5B batteries and a charger. You can get either an 890 mAh battery, or a 1000 mAh battery. The first test I've done using the 1000 mAh battery got about 100 hours of functional life, with about 50 transmitted "reports" of it's position. It's my assumption that the more it transmits, the more power it uses. One of the "selling points" a Vendor (me, in this case) could exploit is to provide firm anecdotal data on realistic "functionality times" on this tracker. Example I could say "using this abc battery you can get "x" hours of functionality with "y" number of transmitted reports. This hardware is highly configurable, so (in another example) if you programmed it to report frequently, say every 30 seconds, you might have a dramatically shorter functionality time. (I'm making up this phrase "functionality time". I think they have a better phrase for it but I'm only into my 1st cup of coffee, so...."

Point is, more transmits, shorter life. Fewer transmits, longer life. My intention is to take the expertise that I've acquired over the last couple of weeks and put it practice, selling the product and the service of optimizing it's configuration at a premium to a prospective customer, thereby saving them the time and energy I've invested thus far just trying to get the thing to work. The Vendor of these units did an above-average job of translating their manual into English, but that's all they did. There are no specific instructions on how to do anything other than basic use. And I could improve on the instructions also, so there's room for improvement there as well. The idea is to provide a "turnkey" service, so that after a simple and direct exchange of money for product, the customer can immediately put the thing to work and not spend 2 weeks trying to figure out how to use it, like I did. I figure that's worth something. Quite a bit in fact, particularly to the non-geek that has a need but doesn't have the requisite technical background to quickly assimilate a wide-body of information into a working understanding of how to make something "go". One thing I've learned in life is that most people are not like me (or "us", I should say), and there's money to be made trading a lifetime of experiences of "figuring things out" to people that want it to work RIGHT NOW.

[TractorGear]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...21&postcount=1

[domas]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

i can't really follow what your problem is anymore really? You can basically use any li-ion battery if that is 2pin configuration and voltages match (4.2 vs 4.1).

[ben7]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

I don't think you should use chinese, high capacity batteries. Even if they DO have the rated capacity (would be surprised to see that!), they might have a short lifetime, and your customers would be disappointed.

Another possible idea is a solar panel. It won't provide a predictable source of energy, but it can help make the battery last longer. Or just use an external battery pack (aka USB power bank).

You can measure the capacity by charging the battery, when dead, to 100%, using a set charge rate. Time how much time it takes for it to charge. Using the time and the charge rate you can get the capacity.

The chargers which tell you how much capacity the battery has while charging likely estimates the capacity using the change in voltage (and/or possibly the current) over a short time. (Not 100% sure if that is how it works, so don't quote me on that)

[TractorGear]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

i can't really follow what your problem is anymore really? You can basically use any li-ion battery if that is 2pin configuration and voltages match (4.2 vs 4.1).

I'm looking for the highest capacity battery I can find. And I want to be able to test the battery in order to prove that it is as high capacity as the manufacturer claims, using a test that is accurate and reliable. Secondarily, I want to explore making my own supplemental battery in the 5,000 to 10,000 mAh range. It needs to be small for easy concealment.

I don't think you should use chinese, high capacity batteries. Even if they DO have the rated capacity (would be surprised to see that!), they might have a short lifetime, and your customers would be disappointed.

Another possible idea is a solar panel. It won't provide a predictable source of energy, but it can help make the battery last longer. Or just use an external battery pack (aka USB power bank).

You can measure the capacity by charging the battery, when dead, to 100%, using a set charge rate. Time how much time it takes for it to charge. Using the time and the charge rate you can get the capacity.

The chargers which tell you how much capacity the battery has while charging likely estimates the capacity using the change in voltage (and/or possibly the current) over a short time. (Not 100% sure if that is how it works, so don't quote me on that)

Thanks, others have also expressed distrust over Chinese batteries and their claims of high-capacity. This is why I am looking for a way to test and measure a batteries' capacity on discharge. i.e. "How much power does it actually output?"In terms of charge/discharge cycles, if it maintained 90% capacity for 100 charge/discharge cycles I would be happy with it.

These units need to remain as small as possible, so that they can be concealed.

[budm]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

This will give some idea about batteries capacity testing.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...asure_capacity

[TractorGear]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

This will give some idea about batteries capacity testing.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...asure_capacity

Thanks, Legend. I was hoping you'd post in my thread.

[domas]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

I'm looking for the highest capacity battery I can find. And I want to be able to test the battery in order to prove that it is as high capacity as the manufacturer claims, using a test that is accurate and reliable. Secondarily, I want to explore making my own supplemental battery in the 5,000 to 10,000 mAh range. It needs to be small for easy concealment.



Thanks, others have also expressed distrust over Chinese batteries and their claims of high-capacity. This is why I am looking for a way to test and measure a batteries' capacity on discharge. i.e. "How much power does it actually output?"In terms of charge/discharge cycles, if it maintained 90% capacity for 100 charge/discharge cycles I would be happy with it.

These units need to remain as small as possible, so that they can be concealed.

Ok, so just keep putting batteries in parallel until you run out of space. It is not clear which form factor you are limited to.

Batteries can be tested with cheapo charger/discharger, but the questions is how long it will work in that capacity. Cheapo chinese "best quality good battery manufacturer" are not known of products that keep their capacity for significant amount of time.

I mean, all lithium batteries are decreasing their capacity over the time. But crappy ones do that in like a month.

So as I say: go to your local electronic component supplier, ask for high quality cells, they should know it, panasonic and sanyo are the main players in the market, not sure if they are not fakes, but you might want to trust the seller, wire them in parallel (you may want to even out voltages before you do so) and bobs your uncle.

Testing the batteries is easy. Internal resistance is what you want. but again, those parameters change over time. I do have loads of used high quality and ok quality cells from laptop batteries. But they have limited lifetime left.

I always wanted a tracker for my car. Automatic charging from cars battery would be a nice solution

[kc8adu]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

i use a triton or a imax b6 to charge/test.
a genuine b6 is around $30 shipped.make sure it has the sticker and the code validates!

[TractorGear]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

i use a triton or a imax b6 to charge/test.
a genuine b6 is around $30 shipped.make sure it has the sticker and the code validates!

This?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/iMAX-B6-LCD-...-/161132269652

[kc8adu]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

yes but that is a fake

[TractorGear]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

yes but that is a fake

Okay, how can you tell?

[Shotgun25]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

He probably saw SUNY written on the power supply halfway down listing description.

[kc8adu]

Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

no scratch off sticker to verify it.