High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • TractorGear
    Member
    • Mar 2015
    • 40
    • USA

    #1

    High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

    The GPS Tracker I have (a TK102B) uses a 3.7 Volt BL-5B battery. Ratings up to 1000 maH seem common.

    Here's an example of the type of battery I'm talking about:
    Code:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nokia-BL-5B-Battery-5140i-5300-XpressMusic-6020-6021-6061-7260-N80-6120-Classic-/361240050892?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541b95bccc
    I has occurred to me that most of these batteries come from China, and some of those manufacturers could be unscrupulous. One way to increase the value of a substandard product is to put a label that claims it's a high-capacity battery, and who would know? How would they know?

    So that is part one of my question. I'm currently looking for the highest capacity BL-5B battery I can find, and I've found some on AliBaba that are rated at 2950 mAh, but I'd like to know if there is some way to test a batteries capacity other than an "anecdotal" test of comparing standby times on the same cell phone or similar. Is there a way to quickly drain or use a battery and measure it's capacity?

    Part two has to do with making a non-BL-5B supplemental battery pack using multiple 3.7 "AA" sized batteries and connecting them in parallel. Shouldn't I be able to simply hard-wire (solder) a 3 or 4 battery pack somehow to the contacts that connect to the GPS Tracker's BL-5B? The main goal here is to dramatically increase the standby life of the GPS Tracker unit. The unit uses (roughly) 250 mAh per day, so a 750 mAh battery lasts 3 days (72 hours), a 1000 mAh lasts 4 days, etc...

    My thinking is that if I can package a battery pack that delivers 10,000 mAh, the tracker will last over a month, and can be used for overseas shipping containers, etc... where power is not available and shipping times are measured in weeks.
  • sofTest
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Aug 2008
    • 361

    #2
    Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

    I use a universal Li-ion battery charger similar to this to test and charge small batteries like BL-5B. Mine shows the capacity during charging, and fully charged capacity, in the display.

    As for building your own battery packs, I don't exactly see why. Your tracker seem to have a standard micro USB connector for charging. Your should therefore be able to hook up any standard 5V/USB power bank to the tracker. These power banks comes in a wide range of capacities, that should cover the need you describes.
    ------------
    Be a mensch

    Comment

    • TractorGear
      Member
      • Mar 2015
      • 40
      • USA

      #3
      Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

      Originally posted by sofTest
      I use a universal Li-ion battery charger similar to this to test and charge small batteries like BL-5B. Mine shows the capacity during charging, and fully charged capacity, in the display.

      As for building your own battery packs, I don't exactly see why. Your tracker seem to have a standard micro USB connector for charging. Your should therefore be able to hook up any standard 5V/USB power bank to the tracker. These power banks comes in a wide range of capacities, that should cover the need you describes.
      Thanks I didn't know there was such a thing as a 5V/USB "power bank". Do you have a link, or searchable text?

      Also, the charger in the link provided has a 2000 mAh limit, and one battery I've found (so far) claims to hold up to 2950 mAh. My understanding of batteries and how they work is admittedly weak, but I am suspicious of a charger that claims to be able to report how much power is being stored on a battery as it is charging. It might be accurate, but I'd like to know why rather than take the manufacturer's word for it. My instinct is that the proof of a battery's charge capacity is on discharge. It seems to me that the "real" measurement takes place during discharge and not charge, but then this is all instinct. Example conventional wisdom is to use a voltage reading to determine if a batter is good or bad. That has never sat well with me, so I've learned to distrust what "everyone" thinks. Another general impression I have is when you run a computer off a battery back-up. It will tell you directly how much power (watts) is being used to run the computer, and you can objectively measure how long the computer will run before the battery dies. I'm hoping for something like that; where I'm not blindly relying on what might be a completely inaccurate method.

      Reason for this is (to give some numbers), a basic BL-5B battery (say 800 mAh) can be easily had for less than $3.00. A "high-capacity" BL-5B sells for about $10.00 on Ali Baba Express, which is 3+ times the cost for 3+ times the capacity. But what if they've taken a lower-grade battery and simply re-wrapped it with a new label that only claims "2900 mAh", but cannot deliver. I'm thinking about reselling these, and I don't want justifiably angry retail customers wanting their money back because the 2900 mAh battery I sold them only stores 900 mAh when brand-new. And I'd rather not rely on possibly inaccurate readings from a simple, basic meter before getting too financially involved in the situation.

      Is there some kind of "discharge method" of measuring battery power in areas outside of cell phone batteries, and can it be applied to cell phone batteries?
      Last edited by TractorGear; 03-14-2015, 09:46 AM.

      Comment

      • sofTest
        Badcaps Veteran
        • Aug 2008
        • 361

        #4
        Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

        Originally posted by TractorGear
        Thanks I didn't know there was such a thing as a 5V/USB "power bank". Do you have a link, or searchable text?
        If I search "USB power bank" in eBay, I get at least 20.000 hits...

        Originally posted by TractorGear
        Also, the charger in the link provided has a 2000 mAh limit, and one battery I've found (so far) claims to hold up to 2950 mAh. My understanding of batteries and how they work is admittedly weak, but I am suspicious of a charger that claims to be able to report how much power is being stored on a battery as it is charging. It might be accurate, but I'd like to know why rather than take the manufacturer's word for it. My instinct is that the proof of a battery's charge capacity is on discharge. It seems to me that the "real" measurement takes place during discharge and not charge, but then this is all instinct. Example conventional wisdom is to use a voltage reading to determine if a batter is good or bad. That has never sat well with me, so I've learned to distrust what "everyone" thinks. Another general impression I have is when you run a computer off a battery back-up. It will tell you directly how much power (watts) is being used to run the computer, and you can objectively measure how long the computer will run before the battery dies. I'm hoping for something like that; where I'm not blindly relying on what might be a completely inaccurate method.

        Reason for this is (to give some numbers), a basic BL-5B battery (say 800 mAh) can be easily had for less than $3.00. A "high-capacity" BL-5B sells for about $10.00 on Ali Baba Express, which is 3+ times the cost for 3+ times the capacity. But what if they've taken a lower-grade battery and simply re-wrapped it with a new label that only claims "2900 mAh", but cannot deliver. I'm thinking about reselling these, and I don't want justifiably angry retail customers wanting their money back because the 2900 mAh battery I sold them only stores 900 mAh when brand-new. And I'd rather not rely on possibly inaccurate readings from a simple, basic meter before getting too financially involved in the situation.

        Is there some kind of "discharge method" of measuring battery power in areas outside of cell phone batteries, and can it be applied to cell phone batteries?
        Out from how my charger rate a new battery, compared with known quality manufacturers rating of their batteries, my charger is fairly accurate. Testing batteries that I have suspecting starting getting weak, has shown capacities as suspected. For the price, this has been a nice tool for me.

        If I were to become a reseller, I probably would invest in a professional battery tester. I don't have a need for one, so I can't give any recommendation.
        ------------
        Be a mensch

        Comment

        • kc8adu
          Super Moderator
          • Nov 2003
          • 8829
          • U.S.A!

          #5
          Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

          if the stock pack is 800mah,hi capacity 1000mah and the 2900 chinese mah are the same size then you are likely going to be dissapointed.
          this overrated pack will be lucky to do as much as the stock oem pack.
          its like 18650's.
          highest legitimate capacity is the rare 3600 panasonic.
          imagine my surprise to see some no name ultrafire crap marked 7800!

          Comment

          • domas
            News Hater
            • May 2013
            • 323
            • Denmark

            #6
            Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

            i wouldn't buy batteries from alibaba and ebay. BTDT many times, got disappointed.

            I would rather get high quality panasonic / sanyo 18650 cells, even used if that was the case.

            What tracker do you use?

            Comment

            • TractorGear
              Member
              • Mar 2015
              • 40
              • USA

              #7
              Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

              Originally posted by kc8adu
              if the stock pack is 800mah,hi capacity 1000mah and the 2900 chinese mah are the same size then you are likely going to be dissapointed. this overrated pack will be lucky to do as much as the stock oem pack. its like 18650's. highest legitimate capacity is the rare 3600 panasonic. imagine my surprise to see some no name ultrafire crap marked 7800!
              I've seen those "Ultrafire" batteries being sold and they are what I'm suspicious of.

              Both of these posts confirm for me that I should be suspicious, but again it goes back to finding an accurate testing method to know for certain.

              Originally posted by domas
              i wouldn't buy batteries from alibaba and ebay. BTDT many times, got disappointed. I would rather get high quality panasonic / sanyo 18650 cells, even used if that was the case. What tracker do you use?
              The tracker I'm looking at is a TK102B, which comes with 2 BL-5B batteries and a charger. You can get either an 890 mAh battery, or a 1000 mAh battery. The first test I've done using the 1000 mAh battery got about 100 hours of functional life, with about 50 transmitted "reports" of it's position. It's my assumption that the more it transmits, the more power it uses. One of the "selling points" a Vendor (me, in this case) could exploit is to provide firm anecdotal data on realistic "functionality times" on this tracker. Example I could say "using this abc battery you can get "x" hours of functionality with "y" number of transmitted reports. This hardware is highly configurable, so (in another example) if you programmed it to report frequently, say every 30 seconds, you might have a dramatically shorter functionality time. (I'm making up this phrase "functionality time". I think they have a better phrase for it but I'm only into my 1st cup of coffee, so...."

              Point is, more transmits, shorter life. Fewer transmits, longer life. My intention is to take the expertise that I've acquired over the last couple of weeks and put it practice, selling the product and the service of optimizing it's configuration at a premium to a prospective customer, thereby saving them the time and energy I've invested thus far just trying to get the thing to work. The Vendor of these units did an above-average job of translating their manual into English, but that's all they did. There are no specific instructions on how to do anything other than basic use. And I could improve on the instructions also, so there's room for improvement there as well. The idea is to provide a "turnkey" service, so that after a simple and direct exchange of money for product, the customer can immediately put the thing to work and not spend 2 weeks trying to figure out how to use it, like I did. I figure that's worth something. Quite a bit in fact, particularly to the non-geek that has a need but doesn't have the requisite technical background to quickly assimilate a wide-body of information into a working understanding of how to make something "go". One thing I've learned in life is that most people are not like me (or "us", I should say), and there's money to be made trading a lifetime of experiences of "figuring things out" to people that want it to work RIGHT NOW.

              Comment

              • TractorGear
                Member
                • Mar 2015
                • 40
                • USA

                #8
                Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...21&postcount=1

                Comment

                • domas
                  News Hater
                  • May 2013
                  • 323
                  • Denmark

                  #9
                  Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                  i can't really follow what your problem is anymore really? You can basically use any li-ion battery if that is 2pin configuration and voltages match (4.2 vs 4.1).

                  Comment

                  • ben7
                    Capaholic
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 4059
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                    I don't think you should use chinese, high capacity batteries. Even if they DO have the rated capacity (would be surprised to see that!), they might have a short lifetime, and your customers would be disappointed.

                    Another possible idea is a solar panel. It won't provide a predictable source of energy, but it can help make the battery last longer. Or just use an external battery pack (aka USB power bank).

                    You can measure the capacity by charging the battery, when dead, to 100%, using a set charge rate. Time how much time it takes for it to charge. Using the time and the charge rate you can get the capacity.

                    The chargers which tell you how much capacity the battery has while charging likely estimates the capacity using the change in voltage (and/or possibly the current) over a short time. (Not 100% sure if that is how it works, so don't quote me on that)
                    Muh-soggy-knee

                    Comment

                    • TractorGear
                      Member
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 40
                      • USA

                      #11
                      Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                      Originally posted by domas
                      i can't really follow what your problem is anymore really? You can basically use any li-ion battery if that is 2pin configuration and voltages match (4.2 vs 4.1).
                      I'm looking for the highest capacity battery I can find. And I want to be able to test the battery in order to prove that it is as high capacity as the manufacturer claims, using a test that is accurate and reliable. Secondarily, I want to explore making my own supplemental battery in the 5,000 to 10,000 mAh range. It needs to be small for easy concealment.

                      Originally posted by ben7
                      I don't think you should use chinese, high capacity batteries. Even if they DO have the rated capacity (would be surprised to see that!), they might have a short lifetime, and your customers would be disappointed.

                      Another possible idea is a solar panel. It won't provide a predictable source of energy, but it can help make the battery last longer. Or just use an external battery pack (aka USB power bank).

                      You can measure the capacity by charging the battery, when dead, to 100%, using a set charge rate. Time how much time it takes for it to charge. Using the time and the charge rate you can get the capacity.

                      The chargers which tell you how much capacity the battery has while charging likely estimates the capacity using the change in voltage (and/or possibly the current) over a short time. (Not 100% sure if that is how it works, so don't quote me on that)
                      Thanks, others have also expressed distrust over Chinese batteries and their claims of high-capacity. This is why I am looking for a way to test and measure a batteries' capacity on discharge. i.e. "How much power does it actually output?"In terms of charge/discharge cycles, if it maintained 90% capacity for 100 charge/discharge cycles I would be happy with it.

                      These units need to remain as small as possible, so that they can be concealed.

                      Comment

                      • budm
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 40746
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                        This will give some idea about batteries capacity testing.
                        http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries
                        http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...asure_capacity
                        Never stop learning
                        Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                        Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                        Inverter testing using old CFL:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                        Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                        http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                        TV Factory reset codes listing:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                        Comment

                        • TractorGear
                          Member
                          • Mar 2015
                          • 40
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                          Originally posted by budm
                          Thanks, Legend. I was hoping you'd post in my thread.

                          Comment

                          • domas
                            News Hater
                            • May 2013
                            • 323
                            • Denmark

                            #14
                            Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                            Originally posted by TractorGear
                            I'm looking for the highest capacity battery I can find. And I want to be able to test the battery in order to prove that it is as high capacity as the manufacturer claims, using a test that is accurate and reliable. Secondarily, I want to explore making my own supplemental battery in the 5,000 to 10,000 mAh range. It needs to be small for easy concealment.



                            Thanks, others have also expressed distrust over Chinese batteries and their claims of high-capacity. This is why I am looking for a way to test and measure a batteries' capacity on discharge. i.e. "How much power does it actually output?"In terms of charge/discharge cycles, if it maintained 90% capacity for 100 charge/discharge cycles I would be happy with it.

                            These units need to remain as small as possible, so that they can be concealed.
                            Ok, so just keep putting batteries in parallel until you run out of space. It is not clear which form factor you are limited to.

                            Batteries can be tested with cheapo charger/discharger, but the questions is how long it will work in that capacity. Cheapo chinese "best quality good battery manufacturer" are not known of products that keep their capacity for significant amount of time.

                            I mean, all lithium batteries are decreasing their capacity over the time. But crappy ones do that in like a month.

                            So as I say: go to your local electronic component supplier, ask for high quality cells, they should know it, panasonic and sanyo are the main players in the market, not sure if they are not fakes, but you might want to trust the seller, wire them in parallel (you may want to even out voltages before you do so) and bobs your uncle.

                            Testing the batteries is easy. Internal resistance is what you want. but again, those parameters change over time. I do have loads of used high quality and ok quality cells from laptop batteries. But they have limited lifetime left.

                            I always wanted a tracker for my car. Automatic charging from cars battery would be a nice solution

                            Comment

                            • kc8adu
                              Super Moderator
                              • Nov 2003
                              • 8829
                              • U.S.A!

                              #15
                              Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                              i use a triton or a imax b6 to charge/test.
                              a genuine b6 is around $30 shipped.make sure it has the sticker and the code validates!

                              Comment

                              • TractorGear
                                Member
                                • Mar 2015
                                • 40
                                • USA

                                #16
                                Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                                Originally posted by kc8adu
                                i use a triton or a imax b6 to charge/test.
                                a genuine b6 is around $30 shipped.make sure it has the sticker and the code validates!
                                This?

                                http://www.ebay.com/itm/iMAX-B6-LCD-...-/161132269652

                                Comment

                                • kc8adu
                                  Super Moderator
                                  • Nov 2003
                                  • 8829
                                  • U.S.A!

                                  #17
                                  Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                                  yes but that is a fake

                                  Comment

                                  • TractorGear
                                    Member
                                    • Mar 2015
                                    • 40
                                    • USA

                                    #18
                                    Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                                    Originally posted by kc8adu
                                    yes but that is a fake
                                    Okay, how can you tell?

                                    Comment

                                    • Shotgun25
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Feb 2014
                                      • 90
                                      • UK

                                      #19
                                      Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                                      He probably saw SUNY written on the power supply halfway down listing description.

                                      Comment

                                      • kc8adu
                                        Super Moderator
                                        • Nov 2003
                                        • 8829
                                        • U.S.A!

                                        #20
                                        Re: High Capacity Cell Phone Battery

                                        no scratch off sticker to verify it.

                                        Comment

                                        Related Topics

                                        Collapse

                                        • sam_sam_sam
                                          Is there any high current pouch battery that are size 60mmX80mm maximum thickness 21mm for a battery operated tab welder
                                          by sam_sam_sam
                                          I have a battery operated tab welder and the battery does not have enough current for the battery tab welder because after about 30 welded it does not have the same current output it voltage has gone down by at least 0.500 volts or maybe a more than that

                                          I can fit 21700 battery cells in the enclosure it is very tight fit for four of them that are 35 amp high current capacity 35X4=140 high current output this should work a lot better than what is installed right now

                                          I tested the battery cells there are installed right now and they are testing good with no issues that I...
                                          02-04-2025, 08:08 PM
                                        • flat-earther
                                          Adding a clock battery to action camera to retain date&time when changing batteries Campark X25
                                          by flat-earther
                                          I have a cheap action camera with an annoying trait, every time I change batteries the date & time gets reset and I have to set it again.

                                          To solve this problem I want to add a small internal battery inside it which will keep supplying power to the camera for a while while I change batteries so the date & time is retained.

                                          I have opened the camera and I think there is enough room to add something inside to accomplish this:

                                          The camera is powered by a 3.7V nominal single cell lithium ion battery.
                                          So I need to connect another battery in...
                                          06-08-2025, 02:00 AM
                                        • sam_sam_sam
                                          Brother “P-Touch” PT-2040SC modified with metal hydrate AAA 700 milliampere hour battery pack originally for cell phone
                                          by sam_sam_sam
                                          I have gotten so tired of battery cells leaking and it happen to this device and it is not very old I had bought these battery packs from The Electronic Goldmine for $1.00 a pack when they had a sale and I am putting 3 packs to good use so I do have to deal with leaking battery cells I am over it

                                          I bought the label maker at Sam Club a while back for $29.99 it come with 4 cartridges and they had them on sale again for $29.99 again so I bought another one because I was not sure if I was going to able to get it to work on the battery cells that I had planned on using for this particular...
                                          05-26-2024, 10:44 AM
                                        • huzo
                                          HP ELITE X2 1013 G3 weird battery issue
                                          by huzo
                                          Hi, so the old battery was getting error stated it's capacity is starting too get low and should be replaced, so the customer bought a new one and replaced it, but the new battery was also getting this notice that it's capacity is getting low and should be replaced, so i took the laptop for testing and the battery is charging at the terminal at 8.03V , the voltage of the battery is 7.7V, and drawing around 600mA when charger is put and the laptop is off...so that should be ok... but the bios system test doesn't recognize the battery and can't do the battery test and so is the hp battery manager,...
                                          01-31-2025, 12:09 AM
                                        • trepachka
                                          iPad Air A1475 Boot loops after replacing battery
                                          by trepachka
                                          This iPad was working fine except the battery was not holding charge for more than 40 minutes. I replaced it with a new battery. I haven't glued the battery yet, just inserted it into the slot and held it with battery screw.

                                          The iPad was powered on with the new battery and I am getting white screen with Apple logo for about 10 seconds, then the screen turns dark. It then cycles like this forever.

                                          I know the battery is working because the iPad continues to boot loop without the charger until it depletes to 0% and the message displays I need to plug in the charger.
                                          ...
                                          11-08-2024, 03:17 PM
                                        • Loading...
                                        • No more items.
                                        Working...