Antec PP412-X PSU

[bgavin]

As a noob, I've been taking this one apart after it went DOA.

It is 100% loaded with crappy Fuhjyyu caps, and several are bulged. One is leaking. I sent an shame email to Antec, and asked them if they will make good on a known-bad problem. I expect the finger from them, but it would be nice to be surprised.

My Sparkle FSP350-60PN is new stock, so I opened up for grins. It is all Teapo with one OST. The board is much less dense than the Antec, so it will be easier to for the noob to recap this one.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

Teapo and OST are regarded as ok for powersupply usage if the airflow is decent...

[gonzo0815]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

But only then.
KC8 has recaped some Seasonic PSu`s with them, and ok theyr not a storm of air, but shure they have some airflow. I think, that there could be more than this simple rule.
Any way, i have had no issues with FSP`s like that.

[kc8adu]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

But only then.
KC8 has recaped some Seasonic PSu`s with them, and ok theyr not a storm of air, but shure they have some airflow. I think, that there could be more than this simple rule.
Any way, i have had no issues with FSP`s like that.

those super tornado 400 units have a 120mm fan in them.
plenty of airflow.
seems the +12 caps fail first in those.
ost go poof!

[Spacedye69]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

I have a Sparkle FSP250-60G something. It has Fujyyu caps. Not dead yet.

[tazwegion]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

I really don't understand that in todays IT savvy marketplace, a manufacturer doesn't seize apon a quality premium component marketing plan (see mockup promo below), I like many others I know, would happliy pay a little more for an item if we knew it was built to last with quality components



This image is merely a hypothetical representation, and in not affliated with Antec Inc.


I advertise the fact that I've used quality capacitors to refurbish a motherboard when I place a listing in an online auction, just makes sense to me

[Galvanized]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

My bang-for-buck favorite are Enhance PSUs. They are populated with Teapo with the odd tiny Jamicon. The have a very low failure rate but are not quiet like Seasonic after about 40% of rated output.

High end caps would only add about $5~$10 per unit to PSU cost.

[tazwegion]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

High end caps would only add about $5~$10 per unit to PSU cost.

True, that's my point... they'd be value-adding to their business & reputation, not to mention saving $$$'s in avoided RMA's

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

The pp412x is a relabeled Channel Well CWT-420ATX12 - I had one of those I paid $105 Canadian for in 2003. It's been recapped and is still working very well. It was actually the easiest PSU recap I've done despite the crammed innards - the secondary side will accept 12.5mm diameter caps in all locations.

The only place I had some trouble is directly behind the fan for the 5vsb caps, where I had to bend the heatsink a bit to accept taller caps. It's also a dual layer PCB - use a good powerful iron.

Also, look carefully at the PCB where the wires come out - I had a resistor there that had heated up and almost desoldered itself from the board.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

A whole PSu probaly ist abouth 10 to 15 us$ may be 20$ if it is high end stuf, so you see, where the problem is.
Shure, a few Panansonic caps would not do increase the bill that dramatically, as in that quantities even those are cheap.
But in the end, for a few milion units this would certainely sum up to a few 1000$ -1000000$ and that is, from witch the real producer (or at least the mannger of it) is living from.
The competition in the PSU market is probably very very hard.

As long as the great, unwashed mass (oh i like this statement from willa.... ) don`t know anything abouth good caps vs badcaps, manufacturers will never do anything on this issue, if it will reduce their margin.
There are very few people, wich would understand the message with japanese quality caps.
Even most engineers are unaware of the problem still today.

The whole SOHO it busines is not a user oriented business IMHo, it is all abouth cheap mass production with lotsa investment and high risks (the smaller the more expensive, thus there is no small production plant for this kind of stuff).
So the investors do expect some returns, regardles if this should turn out as a problem for consumer or a special brand.

It is not that hard to introduce a new brand, if an older is burnt.
That is one reason, why i personally prefer to buy from the real producer if it is possible, but this is fore shure no assurance against badcaps.

[bgavin]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

I sent a shaming letter to Antec about my out-of-warranty PP412-X with bulging/leaking caps, and they have agreed to RMA the PSU.

It will be interesting to see if the replacement is crammed full of Fuhkyyu TNR caps like the old one.

Toyota and Honda lead the world by making a more reliable vehicle than Ford/GM, others. I wonder why some PSU make can't figure that one out.

[Galvanized]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

Last and only time I had phone contact with Antc Fremont, CA. I found both service reps there to be incredably helpful (both are named David).

Yes the bean counters really do screw things up but it does keep alot of repair techs in busine$$.

[willawake]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

the majority of consumers do not know about the badcaps problem. The majority of those that do think it is a problem from the past. The advertising of products with good caps in them will bring some increase in sales but not something very interesting.

On the other hand the decrease in RMA is something interesting to the manufacturers. But as long as total RMA is kept within limits they dont really care.

If more competitors begin using good caps and advertising this, then other competitors may do the same. There is no need for a product to be the best product and have all the features that could ever be needed. The intention is to make a product which is competing well in the market at the required price range sector of the market.

Something interesting is with the motherboard market where companies start to put polymer caps on the boards and advertise as such. Now several companies are doing it and the same with the all polymer boards. This is interesting because polymer caps are supposed to bring added performance which is something the market is really interested in. The all polymer boards review well, people buy and get interested in the technology. The manufacturers get interested and start making more.

The performance gain from using japanese caps in a power supply is probably close to nil as even the badcaps brands perform well in the beginning. real performance of power supplies anyway is not very interesting to the average user. just "brand names" and big wattage etc......

for a lot of kids i see they have too much money available to them, changing computers all the time to play the newest games. throwing things away when they are broken and its a chance to upgrade. 3 years is a very long time for them.......and they are probably one of the biggest markets.....

still if we ignore all that and see how a company works, its practically impossible to get everything done right anyway, there is just not enough time, not enough money, someone cares about something, the rest dont.....every department has their objectives and if they manage to do ok they are happy, anything else is not a concern of their department. change has to come from quite high up.

[tazwegion]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

The performance gain from using japanese caps in a power supply is probably close to nil as even the badcaps brands perform well in the beginning. real performance of power supplies anyway is not very interesting to the average user. just "brand names" and big wattage etc......

for a lot of kids i see they have too much money available to them, changing computers all the time to play the newest games. throwing things away when they are broken and its a chance to upgrade. 3 years is a very long time for them.......and they are probably one of the biggest markets.....

True we are becoming an ever increasing throw-away society, driven by the need for bigger, better, faster & flashier! it's truly sad, thankfully some PC retailers/manufacturers HP & Dell (and world citizens) are recycling old components

[gonzo0815]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

It is not only the people, our society or more preciouse some investors have too mutch money, and they want to invest it. But they don`t want a million small projekts, they want a few realy big ones to put the money in.
And one place to get ride a few billions is any mass production plant, and the production shut not end due too and full market......think abouth that, and you will see why we should buy every year new hardware....
Longlastingproducts don`t count in this philosophy.
As long as something is able to get to the customer and more ore less can survive the warranty period, it is ok to sell.

[kc8adu]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

there seems to be more crap psu on the market than good.
i dont buy new ones myself just to avoid the crap cap lottery.
i recap older well made units.
funny how the big box stores dont have sample units on display anymore.
they always look at me wierd when i shine the ol arc-ls in the vents to see what its made of.
had a guy at the ft.wayne hamfest see me flashlight testing a psu tell me its crap only reason he sells them is so many folks wont spend more than $20 on a psu.

[bgavin]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

I have to admit to this being self-serving on my part: I really don't want the headache of a crap PSU smoking one of my clients servers and/or boards and drives. I already have my clients on a 3-year rotation for their disk drives. I guess PSUs and recapped boards should be the next rotation.

I have one client's workstation on the bench right now. The MSI K7N2G board is completely dead, due to bad PSU. The board is entirely populated with premium caps. A real pity. I opened up the Avance Technlogies PSU and found the usual leakers/bulgers.

I have a few dead Antec left over that I was too lazy to get into the trash bin, so perhaps Antec will RMA them all for me. Examination reveals bad caps, multiple PP412X units, and a couple True Power. I figure I will recap the replacements when they arrive with more Fuhkyyu caps installed.

[kc8adu]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

ROFLOL! Fuhkyyu

[bgavin]

Re: Antec PP412-X PSU

That is more intuitive to type, plus everybody knows who I mean...