Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

[japlytic]

I think a lot of us have seen that the quality of power supplies made by Deer/L&C is very poor, and can even destroy components connected to it if the supply fails .

The import and sale of such power supplies should be banned on grounds of poor quality, especially in developing countries.

Do you agree?

[linuxguru]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

Actually, ban the import and sale of *any* power supply that does not meet certain well-defined quality standards. Those standards may include specifications that all components must last a certain number of hours at full load, etc., and that the printed boilerplate specs must be strictly met - i.e., if it says 300W, it must source 300W in continuous operation for its entire rated lifetime - say, 10000 hours without failure.

[willawake]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

well actually due to increased power requirements of current cpus and also EU requirement for pfc, the psus i see these days coming with china cases are looking pretty decent. L&C looks to be history.

still if people are looking to pay only the price of an L&C there will always be a box of them in the back of the computer shops.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

Well, i don`t think that this is a mather of price. In my opinion it is a mather of some criminal behaivior. I have some powmax laying around, which even laks safety capazitors. They have installed some ceramic (!) 1kv caps instead of the required x2 and y caps. And shure, there are all lables from UL and VDE on the unit.If one of those caps will fail, the whol pc case will be on live. So i think there would be enough reasons to bann those psu`S, as that isn`t anything than a criminal behaiviour, lacking any resonsibility. Concerning the price of a whole cpu, even it is the best brand and quality you can get today, i bet i won`t be mutch more then 10 to 20$. Rest of the game is margin and marketing. So, i think there is no reason to build sutch thing like L&C. The point in this whole sorie is, that the authorities don`t have the knowledge nor the manpower to regulate this market. I save for all elektronic equipment the bills, and if it fails i will bring it back, regardless if it was cheap. Hopefully, the manufakturer or the importe will getting out of bussiness that way.

[willawake]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

i saw only the finland safety authority was doing good inspections for safety on psus and they were very strict. In Greece there is banning of some china products but only after there is an electrocution or burns incident, then they inspect the products and force a recall if it is found to be dangerous. typically they are household goods like kettles, irons, presses etc....

yeah i would vote for the banning of deer/l&c. i wonder if they actually know much about what they are making. if you think about it they are using practically the same design for so long.

[yanz]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

OMG there are 9 voters and they all vote Yes. (including me)

[gonzo0815]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

I am shure, that they have no glue what they build. Think they have cloned the clasic desing, which is in use since the tl4xx chip is out. And then they thoug they can make it cheaper to have an extra marging. Thus removing the expensiv stuff which are not realy necessary for the psu, but e.g for safety etc.

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

get real,

you dont want their product, dont buy it.

if you wanna be a stupid consumer and buy one of the products, go ahead.

if not, dont buy it.

if you were to even begin to think of this rationally you would realize most of the shit psus go into crappy boxed computers, in which the demand on the unit is almost none.

if all of those supplies were banned, demand would remain the same, but supply would would decrease. therefor increasing the price of psus for people who actually care what psu they own.

for all the people here who have knowledge of what a good psu, i sure see ALOT of people here buying CHEAP SHIT supplies.

[tiresias]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

While I'm all in favour of a free, competitive, and unregulated market myself, certain of these PSUs, such as the notorious older DEER models, or the current Powmax "580W" jobs, are little more than scams.

Marketing a poor quality product isn't a crime, but attempting to secure a sale by displaying fabricated specifications should be.

In this respect, my vote has to be "yes".

[Tom41]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

I'm for banning the sale of Deer/L&C PSUs. All the PSUs I've seen with Deer insides have failed catastrophically, everything from the fan seizing up within a few months to the caps bulging and venting.

However, is there actually a law by which we could prevent these PSUs being sold? I know there is a law that protects consumers from misleading advertising - at least in this country

[Shroomie]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

I voted yes for two reasons.

One, the ridiculous, misleading overrating of these supplies.

Two, their significantly higher than average potential to become a fire hazard. If they made their design safer, at least, and relabeled their supplies, then I'd certainly vote No.

[yanz]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

it is sad that oftenly the L&C family PSUs i had/received in the past was not from my decision to buy.

from my experiences, they tend to overvoltage on 12v : 12.3v -12.7v (why is that?).

also, burn/discolored area on the PCB is not a surprise thing i found oftenly in L&C PSU (again, why is that?).

ban them! yes, the rating is ridiculous too!

[linuxguru]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

> from my experiences, they tend to overvoltage on 12v : 12.3v -12.7v (why is that?).

Just a guess - they tend to use a pair of 3A rectifiers on the +12v rail, much lower spec than the 10 or 20A that are printed on the case for +12v. The reason they can sometimes get away with this is that 3A rectifiers can be run at 10A continuous current, if you're willing to tolerate a higher forward voltage drop (say 1.2v instead of 0.6v) and much shorter endurance (say 1000 hours instead of 10000 hours lifetime).

So they spec the main transformer with a slightly higher turns ratio on the +12v winding to compensate for the higher rectifier forward drop at (fake) rated current of 10A. On low loading, say 3A, the rectifier forward drop stays at 0.6v, and the +12v goes to +12.7 volts. The controller compensates by dropping the +5v slightly to +4.7-4.8v.

On high loading (say 10A), the +12v drops lower and closer to +12v, and the +5v goes higher and closer to +5v.

This is also probably the main reason that Deer tends to kill hard drives quickly - on low loading, +12v tends to be too high.

[linuxguru]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

> burn/discolored area on the PCB is not a surprise thing i found oftenly in L&C PSU (again, why is that?).

When the 3A rectifiers on the +12v rail are overloaded to the (fake) rating of 10A, the dissipation would be (say) 10A * 1.2v * 0.5 (50% duty cycle each) = 6W each. They're dissipating 6W, when they're only rated for 3A * 0.6v = 2.4W each, continuous. Multiply by 2, and you get 12W being dissipated in a relatively small area of the PCB. If the fan fails or clogs, it's likely that a local hot-spot will occur right below the rectifiers and cause the PCB to brown/char at that location.

[Galvanized]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

I voted yes, but it will never happen. There are no demanding industry specifications/standards for SMPSs, only suggestions
IIRC, JEDEC wants a 5 years service life for desktop hardware and 10 years for workstation/server.

>linuxguru,TY for the brief tutorial. You did put a finer point on the issue at hand. ATM, on another forum, I'm reading a number of posts by folks having issue when loading up Aspire PSUs (AssFire or Expire). *shrugs*

All PSU designs should be tested to failure with high over loads in a controlled enviroment,ie, same ambient temps & mains voltage. Nothing tells the tale better than distructive testing.

There are some over rated (by wattage spec) MGE units out that use heat pipes for the primary heat sink cooling. They were installed w/o any TIM at the joint of the pipes, none no where=sad cooling. A waste really.

[MD Willington]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

Does Deer/L&C have TUV rhineland certification? if they do, that means that certificate is fake or not worth the paper it is printed on... Of course they can still have ISO900x certification... another useless piece of paper if you don't really do what you say you do.

[arneson]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

I'm certifieable, you haven't banned me. Yet

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

wow, alot of people here need to be welcomed into the REAL WORLD.

i think every psu should be shipped with a box full of gummi bears. of course its not reasonable nor feasible, but hey, lets make a law to try to make it happen.

[linuxguru]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

Does Deer/L&C have TUV rhineland certification? .

Their PCB can accommodate a fully-compliant design, with all the primary-side RFI/EMI components installed, and correctly-rated rectifiers on the secondary. So they can get certification with a compliant sample, and sell in volume with non-compliant units that cost less to make.

How much less? Maybe a dollar. I can source FR307 3A rectifiers for maybe 10c a pair, and I'd need to spend additional resources and labor to stick them into a metal bracket and solder them together. Instead, if I use a SBL1040 or similar 10A dual Schottky-Barrier rectifier, it would only cost about 35c each, and would not require further piece-work before assembly. So the savings on that particular "optimization" are only about a quarter, and these are based on single-unit retail prices. In high-volume manufacturing, the savings may only be about 10 - 15c. Add in all the remaining EMI/RFI compliance components, and we probably get to one whole dollar.

That's what is most irritating about the Deer/L&C fraud - it's a cut-corners, nickel-and-dimes shoddiness.

[jonnyGURU]

Re: Ban the import and sale of Deer/L&C power supplies?

That's very true.

I have a friend that has a friend (REO Speedwagon song?) that works at ECS.

He says that when they submit a sample board for OEM, they use all good components and quote the price of that build the same as the build cost (i.e.: zero profit.)

Once they get the business, they replace all of the components on that PCB with much cheaper components and make their profit from the money they saved.