Recapping MSI MS-6368

[markiemrboo]

Hi,

I've got an oldish MSI MS-6368 v2.1 board that has 5 visibly bad capacitors. 3 of them are right next to the ATX power connector and 2 of them are just below the CPU socket. The board seems to have some major problems randomly locking up. I am guessing this is probably due to the board having so many bad capacitors?

All of the capacitors that have gone bad appear to be identical.

Manufacturer: Chhsi
Model?: WG (M)
Temperature Range: -40C - +105C
Voltage: 6.3v
Capacitance: 2700uF

Today, because the machine locked up again, I replaced one of the capacitors near the CPU socket with the only capacitor I had laying about:

Manufacturer: Rubycon
Model: ??? (forgot to look)
Temperature Range -??C - +105C
Voltage: 10v
Capacitance: 2200uF

I see you have a fair few threads asking if it's ok to replace with higher values, but in my case you can see that the capacitance value I have replaced with is actually slightly lower than the original. My main question is if this is ok? I'm seem to be having a hard time finding good brand name, 2700uF capacitors in the UK. I've seen a Panasonic FC series 2700uF capacitor on RS, but the specs say the diameter is 16mm! Perhaps this is a typo? I'm needing as close to 10mm diameter as possible. The replacement I did today was probably (I didn't measure) 12.5mm, and it's at a slight angle as it didn't quite fit perfectly next to the other capacitors.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

[Rainbow]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

I've replaced 2700uF with 2200uF before (it was a Soyo board IIRC) and it worked fine.

[willawake]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

no i dont think it is a typo. they are short and fat version.

you can get 2200uf 6.3v rubycon at farnell 10mm diameter
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...U=768005&N=401
they appear to be ZA but spec sheet links to ZL i think they are ZL

otherwise 3300uf 10v Panasonic FC 12.5mm
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=9691987&N=401

3300uf 10v rubycon zl 12.5mm
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...U=769095&N=401

there is also 3900uf 6.3v Panasonic FM or FC at RS 12.5mm
FM are superior but RS is holding a rather crappy range of values recently.

then you have elfa http://www.elfa.se/en/
with the 2200uf 6.3 sanyo wx 10mm
and the 3300uf 6.3 sanyo wx 12.5mm

otherwise order from digikey in the states
http://uk.digikey.com/

perhaps some of the caps are connected in parallel so if possible you could fit one larger value and the rest 2200. if you show some pics then maybe we could decide. anyway i agree with Rainbow.

check the spec sheets here to decide what you will buy. lower esr and higher ripple is what you want. confirm the dimensions before you buy in case i was careless.

make sure you replace all chssi and whatever other crap you have on the board otherwise you will have another possibly worse problem later.

[markiemrboo]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

no i dont think it is a typo. they are short and fat version.

Damn!

you can get 2200uf 6.3v rubycon at farnell 10mm diameter
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...U=768005&N=401
they appear to be ZA but spec sheet links to ZL i think they are ZL

otherwise 3300uf 10v Panasonic FC 12.5mm
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=9691987&N=401

3300uf 10v rubycon zl 12.5mm
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...U=769095&N=401

there is also 3900uf 6.3v Panasonic FM or FC at RS 12.5mm
FM are superior but RS is holding a rather crappy range of values recently.

Only problem with farnell is the £20 minimum order value I only need a few.

then you have elfa http://www.elfa.se/en/
with the 2200uf 6.3 sanyo wx 10mm
and the 3300uf 6.3 sanyo wx 12.5mm

otherwise order from digikey in the states
http://uk.digikey.com/

No thanks. Even worse than Farnell for me, £10 handling because I aint in the US and £12 shipping!!! Which ends up costing me about £28 for just 10 capacitors, though they are 2700uF and 10mm.... which I can't find anywhere in the UK!

perhaps some of the caps are connected in parallel so if possible you could fit one larger value and the rest 2200. if you show some pics then maybe we could decide. anyway i agree with Rainbow.

Do you need a really high resolution picture, or will MSI's website overview picture of the board be adequate to tell?

check the spec sheets here to decide what you will buy. lower esr and higher ripple is what you want. confirm the dimensions before you buy in case i was careless.

make sure you replace all chssi and whatever other crap you have on the board otherwise you will have another possibly worse problem later.

[willawake]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

ok then the 2200 10v 12.5mm Panny FC at RS

Do you need a really high resolution picture, or will MSI's website overview picture of the board be adequate to tell?

ok just any pic but mark the cap values on it

[markiemrboo]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

ok then the 2200 10v 12.5mm Panny FC at RS

That was what I was looking at actually Just a little worried about the diameter. I'm not sure replacing them with even 12.5mm will actually fit properly. There's hardly any space between the capacitors

ok just any pic but mark the cap values on it

Ok... in the picture the ones circled in pink are the only ones that look bad, and the only one's I am interested in replacing. They're all identical, as mentioned in my original post:

Manufacturer: Chhsi
Model?: WG (M)
Temperature Range: -40C - +105C
Voltage: 6.3v
Capacitance: 2700uF

The one's circled in blue are (I *think*, can't check for sure at the moment but my memory tells me...)

Manufacturer: Chhsi
Model?: WG (M)
Temperature Range: -40C - +105C
Voltage: 10v
Capacitance: 3300uF

Is that good enough info to go by?

[willawake]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

yes that is great, i would be suprised if each set you circled was not connected in parallel.

to replace only the pink would be a mistake, Chssi is an incredibly crap brand which i have had pleasure to deal with on several occasions on my systems. The blue must go also.

it would be prudent to check also what the yellow i have circled are also. I prefer to do the best job and then enjoy the mobo without issue for the remainder of its useful life.

considering the pink, if you wanted to have the same or excess capacitance you could have one cap of each three to be a larger value and then use the 2200s for the other two.

there is even possiblilty to fill only 2 of the 3 spaces with larger caps and if they are indeed connected with parallel then it should work fine.

anyway if you check this image



you can see how to deal with using larger new caps. it is ok to lean the caps or even have them lying down. this board is still in use at an office today.

[markiemrboo]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

yes that is great, i would be suprised if each set you circled was not connected in parallel.

Cool

to replace only the pink would be a mistake, Chssi is an incredibly crap brand which i have had pleasure to deal with on several occasions on my systems. The blue must go also.

Ah. I'll see if I can see the value's of them then. It's quite a bit of hassle as this machine is actually my little home server and does NAT, sharing the internet for my connection, so I prefer not to shut it down if possible. It's even more tricky as it's in a custom briefcase case in my cupboard

it would be prudent to check also what the yellow i have circled are also. I prefer to do the best job and then enjoy the mobo without issue for the remainder of its useful life.

The yellow one's look scary like the Chhsi ones going by the blue and silver stripe colour scheme.

Is there any kind of technical reason which makes it absolutely necessary to replace these if I am replacing other capacitors, or are you just saying to replace them now as they're quite likely to fail in time?

considering the pink, if you wanted to have the same or excess capacitance you could have one cap of each three to be a larger value and then use the 2200s for the other two.

Ok. Considering the quality of the original capacitors, do you think it's going to be ok for me to replace say, the 2700uF capacitors with high quality 2200uF capacitors and still be perfectly stable? It seems to be working fine with the one I replaced today, it didn't lock up during the boot of the O/S like it usually does at least...

there is even possiblilty to fill only 2 of the 3 spaces with larger caps and if they are indeed connected with parallel then it should work fine.

That's something to think about then.

3 * 2700 = 8100
8100 / 2 = 4050

So if I tried filling only 2 of the 3 spaces would it be good to have atleast 4050uF (4700uF probably closest?) per capacitor?

anyway if you check this image



you can see how to deal with using larger new caps. it is ok to lean the caps or even have them lying down. this board is still in use at an office today.

Really? I read somewhere that it's good for the leads to be as close to the board as possible for some reason. Something to do with ESR I think. If it's going to be ok to have them a little away from the board then that's cool. I managed to get it down to just about 1-2mm away from the board, with a slight lean, I would say

[willawake]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

Ah. I'll see if I can see the value's of them then. It's quite a bit of hassle

anyway make your decision when you have time to check the comp. they are probably 1000uf and if they are from a crap brand i recommend to replace. Generally we recommend to replace anything 470uf and above (recommended) and 1000uf and above (definitely recommended) from the badcaps list.

Is there any kind of technical reason which makes it absolutely necessary to replace these

basically YMMV with the badcaps, they are inconsistent so you might have 1 or two caps going bad out of a selection but enough to cause problems. any cap 1000uf and above is a definite candidate for failure. Based on my experience even having the major caps being good brands like on some boards doesnt stop the 1000uf from going bad. your choice anyway, you might be lucky if you replace only the major caps.

Considering the quality of the original capacitors, do you think it's going to be ok for me to replace say, the 2700uF capacitors with high quality 2200uF capacitors and still be perfectly stable?

yes

So if I tried filling only 2 of the 3 spaces would it be good to have atleast 4050uF (4700uF probably closest?) per capacitor?

yes, as long as they are connected in parallel

I read somewhere that it's good for the leads to be as close to the board as possible for some reason

experience has shown you can get away with it. its best to minimise the lead length. there are other considerations also like the esr/ripple of the cap values you chose also. differs across the values of each series.

[markiemrboo]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

anyway make your decision when you have time to check the comp. they are probably 1000uf and if they are from a crap brand i recommend to replace. Generally we recommend to replace anything 470uf and above (recommended) and 1000uf and above (definitely recommended) from the badcaps list.

I will probably check tomorrow I hope most of your yellow highlighted ones are < 470uF then

basically YMMV with the badcaps, they are inconsistent so you might have 1 or two caps going bad out of a selection but enough to cause problems. any cap 1000uf and above is a definite candidate for failure. Based on my experience even having the major caps being good brands like on some boards doesnt stop the 1000uf from going bad. your choice anyway, you might be lucky if you replace only the major caps.

Ok, I see!

yes, as long as they are connected in parallel

What happens if they're in series? I assume it probably won't cause any major damage, but I would be forced to fill in every space...?

experience has shown you can get away with it. its best to minimise the lead length. there are other considerations also like the esr/ripple of the cap values you chose also. differs across the values of each series.

Good to hear. I may actually be able to use my University to get stuff from Farnell without the minimum order value actually, thinking about it. I shall have to go and nag Pete

Thanks for your help so far! I sure hope when I get some capacitors and recap my lock up issues disappear...!

[willawake]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

What happens if they're in series? I assume it probably won't cause any major damage, but I would be forced to fill in every space...?

board wont post if they are not in parallel

[markiemrboo]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

Do you think it would be better to get the 10v @ 2200uF's or 6.3v @ 3300uF's to replace the ones I circled in pink earlier? To refresh the one's there are 6.3v @ 2700uF.

[kc8adu]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

i use 3300.
very few things use 2700 so i just bump up to 3300.
one less part to stock.

[markiemrboo]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

i use 3300.
very few things use 2700 so i just bump up to 3300.
one less part to stock.

Cool cool.

I took a quick look at the yellow circled ones today. They're all 1000uF 6.3v by the looks of things. I think I will order a bunch of 1000uF rubycon's and have a go at replacing those too, as advised.

[davmax]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

looking at your photo. The pink circle devices are at the VRM output so I would use the 3300u 6.3V caps there. Being MCZ caps you will end up with a very low ESR.

[markiemrboo]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

looking at your photo. The pink circle devices are at the VRM output so I would use the 3300u 6.3V caps there. Being MCZ caps you will end up with a very low ESR.

Just ordered:

10 x Rubycon MCZ 3300uF 6.3v
10 x Rubycon MCZ 2200uF 10v (for the couple of 10v 2200uF caps around the CPU socket)
10 x Rubycon MCZ 1000uF 10v
10 x Rubycon MCZ 1800uF 6.3v

Wasn't sure what I wanted to use for replacing the smaller caps (the 1000uF and 1800uF ones in my order), so I just got both

Hopefully they will arrive soon. Thanks for mentioning that website. Can't wait to get them all replaced now! I will post some pictures as soon as I get it done

EDIT: Will having a very low ESR put more stress on other components (mosfets? I dunno)?

[davmax]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

Great to be of help. How much were you charged for postage?

Lower ESR should not be any stress. It will mean less ripple to the CPU.

[markiemrboo]

Re: Recapping MSI MS-6368

Great to be of help.

How much were you charged for postage?

About 16 euros. The total order price came to about £25. Probably still a bit much really, but it's way better than Digikey that's for sure! Digikey would have charged me £22 before I even ordered anything!

Lower ESR should not be any stress. It will mean less ripple to the CPU.

Nice