My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

[mariushm]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

Of course it's fake... typos, label printed on a color laser printer, crappy stickers... if you think you can buy 100g of Japanese flux for 10$ you're a moron.

A 150g jar is 100$ on digikey : http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...50G-ND/4428869

If you're one in a group of "grownups professionals which are organized to handle the risk" you don't care about 100$ considering you use that jar for at least 30-50 jobs. $1-2 per job is not an issue.

You don't search eBay for some cheapo tacky flux.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

Thanks for calling us morons. I don't care who actually makes the stuff if it gets the job done.

FACT: xmoddz in the US sells the very same Kingbo with the "Colifornia" typo, and they do real pro work on Xbox 360s and laptops. They never had any complaints. Hundreds of other people use it with great results. If it works, why bother looking for anything else, genuine or not?

Another FACT: Genuine US-made Amtech is $45 for 100g. You don't need to pay $100 for a can of flux, seriously now.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

If you're one in a group of "grownups professionals which are organized to handle the risk" you don't care about 100$ considering you use that jar for at least 30-50 jobs. $1-2 per job is not an issue.

You are not in position or age to pass lessons to any one.

Personally I do not give a shit about your own buying habits, please do the same.

[mariushm]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

I didn't call you a moron, because I'm sure you know 10$ for flux in such quantity is too good of a deal.

Yes, you can get flux cheaper than 45$ and it will be a brand name, of course large stores like Digikey or Farnell also have to make a profit and keep in consideration the fact that this stuff is more expensive to ship (some fluxes can't be shipped by air due to fire risk) and they have a limited life so can't be bought in quantity.

I'm not arguing that you can get the job done and honestly, I don't care if someone fixes Xboxes and laptops with some fake flux.
Lots of people also buy fake Amtech flux and it also gets the job done. How well... I guess you'll never know without an X-ray machine to look how the reballing was done.

I'm using liquid flux made by some Polish company Topnik and it works great for me. If I buy tacky flux from them it will probably also get the job done just fine.

You could probably dilute colophony and IPA in a jar and flood the board with flux and you'll get the job done. Or just follow some 20-30 year old patent on tacky flux and you'll get the job done.

Getting the job done shouldn't be the metric, that's the point I'm trying to make.

It just annoys me that someone like this Greek guy comes all high and mighty bragging how he's industrial, professional, expert, blah blah, and constantly comments when people discuss cheaper tools or components and then comes here with this. It's enough to just paste his first line of text in this thread to prove what I say:

In the world of the ones who have master the job of rework/reflow/reballing, this product is considered as good enough

Personally I do not give a shit about your own buying habits, please do the same.

If you're posting something on a public forum, you're opening yourself up to critique. If you don't like it, sign out and post on your website instead.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

Because your imagination is limited, I will say that even me I do trust advices of people who have master a specific technical field.

When you will learn to act the same unquestionably, you will see your life to change to the better.

[mariushm]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

Everybody can claim to be anything on this forum and you can claim anything to want, doesn't mean I have to believe you. You and whatever you claim to be means nothing to me.

In regards to degrees and qualifications, I can spend a few thousand dollars for a fake master, that doesn't make me an expert in anything. When you actually give quality advice here on this forum, I'll believe your qualifications.

As for your second sentence, that's what religious sect leaders tell their followers.

By the way, I am a master in posting on forums and my advice is to stop posting on this forum, so go ahead and follow it unquestionably.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

I'm sure you know 10$ for flux in such quantity is too good of a deal.

I know. It's 20$ actually.

Lots of people also buy fake Amtech flux and it also gets the job done. How well... I guess you'll never know without an X-ray machine to look how the reballing was done.

That stuff is crap. Used it when i was just getting started, like everybody else i guess. Not tacky and left tons of residue behind.

Kingbo at least passed the "field tests" so far, and you have to agree with me that's what matters - if it makes a good strong joint that lasts over time, then it's good flux. I use it for many kinds of soldering, not just reballing, and i have had the opportunity to inspect many of the joints made with the help of Kingbo flux. They always come out nice and shiny.

I'm using liquid flux made by some Polish company Topnik and it works great for me.

Had a bottle of that stuff and hated it. Not that it wasn't good - it just was too messy.

Getting the job done shouldn't be the metric, that's the point I'm trying to make.

I know, but in today's world where almost everything comes from the knock-off paradise of China, there are no guarantees. When you find something that works, it's not a bad idea to also recommend it to others.

It just annoys me that someone like this Greek guy comes all high and mighty bragging how he's industrial, professional, expert, blah blah, and constantly comments when people discuss cheaper tools or components and then comes here with this.

We've talked about Mr. Kiriakos' way of expressing his opinion before. While i do not agree with many things he said, i don't have a problem with what he said in this topic.

[Sparks88]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

the fake stuff smells terrible as well, i bought some and could not do a decent reflow/reball because it just made a mess when warming up, i have used the fake stuff for basic soldering and it seems ok but even though it says no clean it leaves a residue behind that stains/leaves marks on the pcb which leads me to beleive that it will eventuall damage the board, went back to amtech LF4300 TF and getting consistent results.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

I can spend a few thousand dollars for a fake master

Just spent very few dollars so to buy a table so to sale potatoes on it, you are not even close to what is called as trained in electronics.
And your character is incompatible for this specialization.
Go for those potatoes, they are a safer bet.

[Sparks88]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

And i thought the idea of a forum was a place to help and share information and not a place to brag about who has the longest degree and i am better than you are, different countries have different laws governig many things and in certain parts of the world using a product together with information gathered from the wiser and elder all help to get the job done.
i do not beleive that everyone on here got to where they are by just reading and that is why experience is the most important thing you can have, i have worked with many people who claimed letters and numbers after their name but when it actually came to doing the job they were totally useless.
So lets all start acting grown up and go about doing what we all know best and helping and not hindering because at the end of the day we can all learn something from each other and i have not yet met anyone who did not gain something by listening to others with an open mind.

[ITTSB]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

All this "kingbo" flux is too confusing for me.
Who is the "original" manufacter? Why cant i find the company website?
Is there a product datasheet?

Also,
why there isn't any reliable supplier that sells it?

.... maybe the original is not so original....

Too many to list down, starting from flux, carpet, ramen and like this one =



... and maybe down to condom or what ever you can imagine of.


Yeah, definitely buy and use with confidence.

[momaka]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

However, if it is a fake, it's a really good one.

I agree.
Most likely Kingbo is cheap Chinese stuff indeed, but at least it works well.

Although, I do agree on one thing with mariushm - a data sheet would have been great if there was one. Right now, there's no way to know what's the melting point, boiling point, shelf life, storage temperature, etc. Any "true" real-world industrial use by big companies (like, let's say Intel, for example) would probably require that the products/consumables used in the manufacturing process be all well-documented. Not having a website, a data sheet, or any other contact information puts Kingbo right there with the other no-name fluxes. Of course, what sets it apart, is that it works much better than those other no-name fluxes.

Although I do only "amateur" BGA work (mostly as a hobbby/fun) now, I've used Kingbo quite extensively, and it still remains my favorite all-around flux.

By the way, as far as shelf life, I've had my jar for almost 2 years now, and it's still nearly full too. When I got it, it was creamy-white and easy-flowing. Now it's thick and dark-yellow. It still works good, though. However, it smells even more unpleasant when burned and the smoke from it is thicker too. So yeah, a data sheet would be nice to have.

Oh yeah, I did a search for "Nihon Material co. ltd", just to see what pops up (I deliberately dropped "Kingbo Chemicals" out of that expression). And so far, this seems the closest:
http://www.hktdc.com/manufacturers-s...d/en/1X08E0QA/
... which is nothing close. Most likely, the Chinese just borrowed the name. Or who knows. But yeah, I concur with some of the posts I found on Google, that Kingbo is probably indeed just another run-of-the-mill no-name Chinese flux. But at least it works well.

[Per Hansson]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

You are not in position or age to pass lessons to any one.

Personally I do not give a shit about your own buying habits, please do the same.

You sure are one to call the kettle black.
In pretty much every single thread where someone buys equipment X you come in and proclaim how equipment X by manufacturer Z would be so much better.
And that this person is a number of derogatory terms, like kids, stupid etc etc for buying such equipment.

Yet here you are proclaiming using some cheap Chinese ripoff flux, where the manufacturer can't even spell the name of the state of California or the word distribution properly on their inkjet printed label.

It's getting real old...

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

You sure are one to call the kettle black.

Next time jump in by been honest as mariushm is.
By saying out laud.. lets vandalize this topic, so to make the Greek mad and hopping that his own steams of anger will make him blow up. (Childish and pointless as idea but not a crime)

I am just collecting feedback due this thread about the specific product, and so far it does feel good that there is a majority of people who tested it, and the fact that they are satisfied with it.
In conclusion there is no need for me to defend it as product.

From the other hand I am not a sales person, so to care of which product will get a higher ranking either.



.

[xboxhaxorz]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

All this "kingbo" flux is too confusing for me.
Who is the "original" manufacter? Why cant i find the company website?
Is there a product datasheet?

Also,
why there isn't any reliable supplier that sells it?

.... maybe the original is not so original....

typing kingbo flux in google right away shows company web site
kingboflux.com

[xboxhaxorz]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

Is not bad, but Amatech is must better.

There are many Amtech options, so you must be specific about which model

There are also tons of fake Amtech out there, so unless you buy it from manufacturer in USA you are very close to getting a fake

Amtech may or may not be better, but it is much more expensive than Kingbo

We have used Kingbo flux in our BGA repairs for 2+ yrs now, and the best thing about it is that its active till at least 240c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhZhHFO9x0Q

It is the only flux we use in our shop, i have many other brands including Kester, Amtech, Insat but its our preferred type due to cost and effectiveness

Regarding the Colifornia part, that is on both authentic and fake bottles because well its made overseas and they cant spell

We have a few products that have misspelled things, our BGA Machine says CAUTION HOT SUREACE ON IT

[clearchris]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

They misspell California at the bottom of their webpage too.

AFAIK, the chemical names look to be spelled properly.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

that its active till at least 240c

This is one of the significant details about it success.
And in my very first post this is what I mentioned that I need to confirm too.
Thanks mate.

[clearchris]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

I figured Colifornia might have been a good mark of authenticity, but thats a bummer about fake kingbo also having the misspelling.

[Dimitrios]

Re: My very first Rework flux by KINGBO Japan

Last year I bought one KINGBO but instead of being the nice soft whitish cream, I 've received a hard yellow compound which at the end gets the job done but doesn't like its texture. Maybe its been on the shelf for too long and then they sent it to me? who knows..