Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

[Pentium4]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Yeah....some can be very tricky to take apart and I feel like I'm going to break the damn thing!

[momaka]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Just peel back the sticker, take out the rubber bung if there is one, and put a few drops of oil in the shaft. Then put the sticker back on and spin it a few times until it spins freely. This can also be done as a precautionary measure.

This is only a short term fix for growling fans and it won't work for the badly seized ones.

Sometimes, it's tough to get a fan apart. Often there is a tiny c-clip at the top of the shaft or simply a plastic washer that has a split on one side so it can technically be fiddled out of it's slot. I find myself using sewing needles and other weird stuff to remove these parts at times, but it works.

I find those c-clips and plastic locking washers very easy to take apart with a small flat head screwdriver. Just insert the flat head screwdriver into the cut of the c-clip / locking washer, twist screwdriver slightly, then pry one end of the c-clip / locking washer up. Once the end of the c-clip / locking washer is up, just continue prying it until it's off the shaft.
Note 1: often those plastic washers will not pry unless you use a second small flat head screwdriver to push the opposite (of the cut) end of the washer towards the shaft.
Note 2: sometimes those plastic washers will violently snap off the shaft and fly up, usually towards your eyes if you are looking directly over the fan. I've had enough of them go in my eye that now I either:
a) wear safety glasses or
b) better yet, once the washer is about to come off the shaft, I then put the second flat head screwdriver on the center of the shaft above the washer so that the washer cannot fly away.

I always clean the shaft and bearing, sometimes running some 2000-grit wet sanding paper through the bearing, very lightly, just to debur anything miniscule.

+1
For sleeve bearing fans, cleaning the shaft is sometimes vital to restore proper operation, especially for fans that have seized a lot. Normally, I do this with a very small flat head screwdriver as well - I just insert the screw driver in the sleeve bearing and rub in and out. This will also make slight grooves in the sleeve bearing which will help it retain oil and reduce friction between the sleeve bearing and the shaft. Before lubing, though, I fist run a small piece of paper towel in the sleeve bearing to clean all of the crud that I scrubbed with the screw driver. Then oil and go.
The whole take apart, clean, lube, and assemble back together process takes no more than 10-20 minutes, depending on how bad the fan was seized. Still quicker than going out and buying a new fan.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

I've found those c-clips to break very easily if the fan has been hot... Now where to get extra ones that were shatterred...

[momaka]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

^
Most fans will work fine without them. If you have one that doesn't, you can usually take a piece of copper wire and bend it around the shaft key where the c-clip normally goes. It may add a bit of friction if the fan is turned with the rotor facing down, but it will still work good enough. I have a few fans that were fixed this way. Also have 1 that I simply didn't put any washer back in. It's actually in the PSU that is powering my gaming PC right now .

[kc8adu]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

anymore i preemptively oil sleeve fans as routine maintainence.
cant remember last time any failed here.worst ones i have seen were some generic trash that antec relabled for the 1200 case.
only a few months old and they locked up.the machine is in a heavy dog/cat hair environment but since there are rubber plugs that should not matter.owner called antec who sent replacements but they died in about the same time.
cleaning out the trash oil and relubing fixed them.

[c_hegge]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

worst ones i have seen were some generic trash that antec relabled for the 1200 case.
only a few months old and they locked up.the machine is in a heavy dog/cat hair environment but since there are rubber plugs that should not matter.owner called antec who sent replacements but they died in about the same time.
cleaning out the trash oil and relubing fixed them.

The same thing happened to my Antec 1200, although it took more like 3 years. I decided that the 3 LEDs in them weren't enough, so I replaced them with Enermax Apollish fans (the ones that have 16 LEDs in them)

I think the Antec ones were Dynatron Top Motor

[imp]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

I use exclusively Papst fans when using sleeve bearing fans, I believe these have a much better construction than many other "cheap" brands, but yes, they cost a lot more. However, I almost ever see them fail before the equipment there´re installed in retires. At work Papst are entirely the most common brand preinstalled in european manufactured equipment, MNB-NIMEA and Sunon in some american and a few chinese brands in other. They hardly fail though, we change them on a regulary basis (five to ten years) to avoid disturbancies in production.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Papst is an excellent brand, likewise Comair-Rotron, NMB, Panasonic Panaflo, and EBM. But they are also expensive and may not be readily available to really small companies and individual repair people.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

I don't know if all sleeve bearings in fans are permanently lubricated like Oilites, but I once received 5 brand new retail boxed AMD Socket 7 CPUs in a row with ball bearing fans that squealed loudly because their rear sleeve bearings had no oil. I checked one of the replacement fans, and it had a drop of oil in it, and oiling the squealing fans silenced them.

[Pentium4]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Papst is an excellent brand, likewise Comair-Rotron, NMB, Panasonic Panaflo, and EBM. But they are also expensive and may not be readily available to really small companies and individual repair people.

Don't forget Nidec and Delta

[c_hegge]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Papst is an excellent brand, likewise Comair-Rotron, NMB, Panasonic Panaflo, and EBM. But they are also expensive and may not be readily available to really small companies and individual repair people.

I agree with the expensive part, but I can easily get hold of them from element14 and RS components. If I want a BB fan, then I usually get NMB, unless I can find a SanAce for a similar price.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Forgot Nidec and SanAce. Despite working for Delta for 3 yers I didn't get much experience with their fans. Almost by default I thought of Delta fans as sort of mid-grade, though that might be an under-estimation.

[c_hegge]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

I've had very few problems with delta fans, and I regard them as being up there with SanAce and NMB. The only thing I've been noticing recently with them is that the Delta-made Intel stock fans seem to have a more audible PWM whine than their Nidec counterparts.

[momaka]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Personally, I don't like NMB at all. Both their ball and sleeve bearing fans are too loud for my taste. Also, they are not service-friendly at all either. Just fixed a home stereo SRS system. Although the problem had nothing to do with the fan (a 50 mm NMB), the fan was starting to seize. And worse, I couldn't open it because it had a machine-pressed metal cap seal on the back. So how did I oil it?? - I didn't. Instead I pushed and pulled the rotor back and forth to get it freed a bit. It worked, but who knows for how long.

I've seen some Sunon Maglev fans also use that metal cap on the back. Luckily, all of them had holes on the front of the rotor near the shaft so I just squirted oil in there and that fixed them.
Supperred is yet another brand that likes to use machine-pressed cap seals - but at least they are plastic so I just drill through them.

And finally Delta - don't like them either because they all (both ball and sleeve bearing) make very loud "clicking"/buzzing sounds. At least they are very reliable, though.

So from those "top" brands that everyone likes, I only like Sanyo Denki, Nidec, and Panaflo. Haven't tried Papst and SanAce yet. Sunon is very good too, but just not enough to make it on my "top" list due to seeing a few that started to seize and I couldn't get them open.

As for the cheaper sleeve bearing fans, I like Power Logic and Yate Loon quite a bit. Adda is actually a lot better than the other sleeve bearing fans IMO. Easy to repair too, so I like them.

[c_hegge]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Personally, I don't like NMB at all...I only like Sanyo Denki, Nidec, and Panaflo

NMB and Panaflo are one in the same. So are Sanyo Denki and SanAce.

[momaka]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

^ I might be confusing Panaflo with Papst then. I do remember seeing/using one of those "P" brands, but not sure which. Regardless, NBM is still not good IMO.

[Wester547]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

NMB and Panaflo are one in the same. So are Sanyo Denki and SanAce.

Wasn't Panaflo once a division owned by Panasonic? I think NMB and Panaflo merged in 2005, and that they're now known as NMB-MAT or Minebea.

Personally, I don't like NMB at all. Both their ball and sleeve bearing fans are too loud for my taste.

Way back at the end of 2001, when I first had my old Dell Dimension 8200 (which had a Pentium 4 1.7 GHz Willamette and the commonly known 3612KL-04W-B66 92x92x32 fan from NMB, dual ball bearing, rated up to 3800RPM/69.91CFM/.34" static air pressure/43.5 DBA), the NMB CPU fan that came with it was very quiet, even when the CPU was at full load. However, over time, it became noiser and noiser, and now it's at the point where it's the noisiest CPU fan I have (I estimate it to have roughly 17,000 power on hours and 7,000 power cycles). No joke. I replaced it with a more powerful 3615KL-04W-B86 fan from NMB (92x92x38, dual ball bearing, rated up to 5700RPM/120CFM/.75" static air pressure/53.2 DBA) and while it makes more noise, techically speaking, it's still notably quieter, especially in the volume of sound it takes in the room, if that makes sense. The latter fan is very powerful, though - you can tell it's rated up to 120CFM even at half speed. I always feel a powerful breeze from it.

I think NMB are fine, depending on what you use their fans for. Maybe not user-friendly or great for repair and servicing, and also not a contender for a quiet fan, but if you need something that will last you a long time and provide decent airflow (and if that's all you need), I think NMB (dual ball bearing) would be a nice choice. On the record, I've never heard a Delta that clicks, though they are loud and noisy. It is Sunon's sleeve bearing fans that click, rattle, and vibrate because of the way their loose bearing assembly is designed, in my experience, so much so that it may make the whole case rattle if such a fan (80mm or larger) is used in a PC. That can't be good for solder joints, BGA chips, lead-free solder, or hard drives. That said, Sunon fans provide the most airflow out of any of their competition, for me.

The only problem with ADDA fans is their lack of oil, which can easily be remedied before you start using their fans by preemptively lubing them. They are quiet and do not vibrate much while giving off good airflow, all of which is terrific. In reply to the thread, no, I don't replace sleeve bearing fans on sight. I prefer to be as resourceful as I can be so I try to use whatever I can whenever I can and whenever it's befitting.

[momaka]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

Way back at the end of 2001, when I first had my old Dell Dimension 8200... the NMB CPU fan that came with it was very quiet, even when the CPU was at full load. However, over time, it became noiser and noiser, and now it's at the point where it's the noisiest CPU fan I have

I have a Dell OptiPlex 170L with the same problem. CPU fan is a 92 mm NMB. Not sure if it's the same model as yours, but regardless it is very loud and vibrates a little too. PSU fan is an sleeve bearing Adda (IIRC). I believe the PSU is original to that computer. Nonetheless, that fan is still quiet. So I see no excuse why the NMB got so loud.

The 92mm Datech in my family's Dimension 3000, on the other hand, hasn't changed much in terms of noise. It has started to vibrate a little more than it used to as well, but I suspect that's because I haven't cleaned it in quite a while. That computer now has 10 000 hours on it. It's not a whole lot. But again, the PSU in it also has (IIRC) an Adda sleeve bearing fan that is still working fine.

On the record, I've never heard a Delta that clicks, though they are loud and noisy. It is Sunon's sleeve bearing fans that click, rattle, and vibrate because of the way their loose bearing assembly is designed, in my experience, so much so that it may make the whole case rattle if such a fan (80mm or larger) is used in a PC.

Well the Deltas aren't exactly clicking, but at very low RPM, you can kind of hear how the strong magnet in the rotor "clicks" or "jumps" to the next position on the stator. Although, I should probably note that I find this to be true with other high end brands as well. I think it's because they use much stronger magnets than the cheapo fans.

As for Sunon - I have a 40mm and a 92 mm sleeve bearing fans that are both very very quiet. Also have a 80 mm dual ball bearing Sunon that isn't as quiet, but it's very powerful and "clicks" no more than the 80 mm dual ball Delta in my Pavilion PC. But I'll be honest that I never tried mounting that 80 mm Sunon in a case, so I wouldn't know if it can actually make it vibrate like you say yours does.

In reply to the thread, no, I don't replace sleeve bearing fans on sight. I prefer to be as resourceful as I can be so I try to use whatever I can whenever I can and whenever it's befitting.

+1
I always use/reuse all my fans, even the ones that have seized badly. However, if I have a cheap but quiet sleeve bearing fan on hand and I want to make my own computers quiet, then I will use the cheap fan. Reliability is not an issue with my systems because most of the time they are off when I'm not using them. I just counted 2000 hours on my P3 HP Pavilion PC last month (it had 22028 hours, now it has 24104). It's been about 2.5 years since I found it, so approx. 2 hours of use per day.

[Wester547]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

I have a Dell OptiPlex 170L with the same problem. CPU fan is a 92 mm NMB. Not sure if it's the same model as yours, but regardless it is very loud and vibrates a little too. PSU fan is an sleeve bearing Adda (IIRC). I believe the PSU is original to that computer. Nonetheless, that fan is still quiet. So I see no excuse why the NMB got so loud.

Minebea fans don't vibrate much if at all in my experience, they're just loud. And well, dual ball bearing fans do get louder over time, though NMB's are exceptionally loud.

The 92mm Datech in my family's Dimension 3000, on the other hand, hasn't changed much in terms of noise. It has started to vibrate a little more than it used to as well, but I suspect that's because I haven't cleaned it in quite a while. That computer now has 10 000 hours on it. It's not a whole lot. But again, the PSU in it also has (IIRC) an Adda sleeve bearing fan that is still working fine.

Does it have a Newton Power 250W? I would be surprised to find a sleeve bearing ADDA in it - usually I see those PSUs use fans with more oil in them, like Sunon or Delta. And watch out. Those JMC/Datech fans don't last, even the dual ball bearings ones. I think they vibrate more than NMB fans, too. Another I had in a Dell seized completely (rock-solid) after almost 17,000 hours of use and 5,000 power cycles, and 1,000 hours before it started slowing down tremendously. It was the common 9232-12HBTL-2 (92x92x32 and dual ball bearing, rated up to 4000RPM/82CFM/.33" static air pressure/45 DBA). It became quieter before that happened, so if yours is more quiet over time it may be starting to die (though hopefully not). Another Datech fan I have that's no longer in use, the DS9238-12HBTL-A (92x92x38 and dual ball bearing, rated up to 5700RPM/120CFM/.80" static air pressure/53.2 DBA), vibrated noticeably and didn't blow out nearly as much air as it should have even at half speed for being rated up to 120CFM, though it was quiet at least and did spin rather fast.

Wizard once said here that the Sunon fans vibrate because their harsh magnetic impulses are uneven so they cause the rotor to rock back and forth, resulting in the rattling - that sounds like a good explanation to me.

+1
I always use/reuse all my fans, even the ones that have seized badly. However, if I have a cheap but quiet sleeve bearing fan on hand and I want to make my own computers quiet, then I will use the cheap fan. Reliability is not an issue with my systems because most of the time they are off when I'm not using them. I just counted 2000 hours on my P3 HP Pavilion PC last month (it had 22028 hours, now it has 24104). It's been about 2.5 years since I found it, so approx. 2 hours of use per day.

What PSU does it have? It must be a good one to have lasted that long.

[lti]

Re: Do you replace sleeve bearing fans on site?

I have an 80mm NMB fan that sounds like an airplane. It is bearing noise and isn't very loud, but it can clearly be heard over the motor.

The Sunon fans I have seen vibrated because the blades were unbalanced.

Since this has turned into a general fan discussion, I'll talk about my experiences with fans. I have found that Evercool fans are equal in quality and performance (noise and vibration) to Sunon fans. The NMB fan in my parents' computer has actually become quieter. When it was new, it was loud enough that I could hear it in the other end of the house. It was loud enough to keep me awake at night and really started screaming when the CPU was placed under load. It isn't that loud anymore.

As for the sleeve bearing fans, I usually replace them after they start to make noise or seize up. I haven't tried to lubricate computer fans, but I managed to revive a bathroom fan by completely disassembling it, cleaning the shaft and bearing surfaces, and filling it with oil (the bottom bearing was enclosed, so I just filled it with oil) before putting the blades and shaft back in. Computer cooling fans should be a similar process, but with smaller parts.

I have also fixed a cheap desk fan that was noisy from the factory by oiling it. It never had any lubricant in its "permanently lubricated" bearings, and I couldn't get the motor apart because one of the screws was stuck. I put as much oil on top of the bearing as I could and let it sit with the shaft positioned vertically for several hours to let the oil soak in. One drop on top without giving it enough time to soak in (as everyone recommends) doesn't work.