odd motherboard voltage reading

[jbanter]

Hi, I just recently found this website and I must say it's very informative and helpful.

Anyway, I have an old P4 machine with Intel D865PERL motherboard. I have recently had my local computer shop replaced the capacitors on my motherboard. It couldn't do POST. There were bulging caps on the side of the CPU socket. I don't know how many caps were replaced but the computer does work again.

After a while, I notice that my Intel active monitoring software is alerting me of spikes outside the threshold. One time, its the CPU temp gone to 100C, then 12V gone to 15V, then Vcore gone to 0V, all these are happened separately and each happens very fast less than a second I think. When I look at the readings everything was normal. Later on, I will get the same alert, but it may not be from the same one.

Is this a PSU problem or a capcitor problem? So far no freezes or anything like that but I haven't used the computer for long. Another note, I know for a fact the guy from the computer shop had to take caps from other motherboards because he couldn't get a new one.

Thanks to anyone who can point out something.

[stj]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

couldnt get a new one - bullshit.
he didnt want to buy them.

old caps - what did he fit - got a foto?

[kaniki]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

I agree. Unless they are a very rare and odd size, you can always get them no problem, and the places that you are talking about, he should have had no problem getting some for it. Also, you said that he used some used ones to replace the bad ones. Do you have any idea what brand or model that he used. Just because the ones that he used will boot up the PC does not mean that those same caps are within proper tolerance, nor does it mean that they will last, especially since you said that they were used. If you could give us the info off of the side of the caps that you said that he replaced, we could give you a better idea as to whether the caps are even of a decent brand. A lot of the cheaper motherboards come with cheap made in china pieces of crap on them instead of good brands like rubycon, etc. also, were the caps that he replaced them with ultra low esr or standard caps? cant say with the details of the type and model of the caps that he replaced them with. so if you could give us the brand and type (should be 2 or 3 letters), it would help a lot.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

How did the tech test the used caps before installing them, and why didn't he charge you anything for the repair? I'm assuming there was no fee because the repair seems really shoddy, and nobody can be 100% scum.

[kc8adu]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

Hi, I just recently found this website and I must say it's very informative and helpful.
Another note, I know for a fact the guy from the computer shop had to take caps from other motherboards because he couldn't get a new one.

Thanks to anyone who can point out something.

unless you took this in to your pc tech as an "oh shit!"emergency fix your tech is a hack.
anyone in the biz knows where to get parts.
yes i have done some rather unorthodox temp fixes to get something running right now! in a pinch but i go back after the crisis and do it right.
post a pic of the work.

[ratdude747]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

used caps? is this guy on crack? did he forget rule #2 of recapping (rule one is no ebay caps): NEVER use USED caps unless you must or if the esr has been tested good!

[kaniki]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

...and why didn't he charge you anything for the repair? I'm assuming there was no fee because the repair seems really shoddy, and nobody can be 100% scum.

where does it say that he did not charge anything??? read it again, it said that he repaired it but nothing was said about cost, free or otherwise..

used caps? is this guy on crack? did he forget rule #2 of recapping (rule one is no ebay caps): NEVER use USED caps unless you must or if the esr has been tested good!

Dont criticize untill you find the facts. He said that he used caps from another motherboard.. He never said that he did not test them, nor did he say that he did.. For all we know, they may have been 2 year old rubycon's and perfectly good... but on the other hand they may also be OST's.. dont know because he did not say.. so how do you know that they were crap caps or that they were no good??

[PCBONEZ]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

Intel boards of that vintage often have 85C rated caps for the small 4 and 5 mm caps.
They dry out and go bad too.
Sometimes they even bloat but it's hard to see on caps that small.
If bad, those caps could affect your monitoring circuits.

Yup, a bad PSU could do it.

Where are you?
In some parts of the world it is difficult to get good caps.
If you aren't in one of those places then, Yup, your tech is a hack.

.

[jbanter]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

I didn't expect so many replied already. But thank you

I live in Indonesia so that may explain why the tech says he can't find a new ones. I actually put the motherboard in another shop before, and after 3 weeks nothing could be done. He said that he couldn't get the parts also. So I was actually glad that I found a guy who could do it. Anyway I paid about US$16 for the service, incl parts.

I didn't take picture of the old caps because initially I didn't know what cause my motherboard to die. Also, I had not found about this site either. So I didn't ask in detail about what kind of caps he took nor what motherboard that was. He did say that he took only the good caps. Since he is the tech guy and I haven't got a clue about these stuff, I took his word for it. Now I have a little doubt.

As for testing the motherboard, I don't know what kind of testing he did on the board. What sort of testing needed?

Intel boards of that vintage often have 85C rated caps for the small 4 and 5 mm caps.
They dry out and go bad too.
Sometimes they even bloat but it's hard to see on caps that small.
If bad, those caps could affect your monitoring circuits.

Yup, a bad PSU could do it.

Where are you?
In some parts of the world it is difficult to get good caps.
If you aren't in one of those places then, Yup, your tech is a hack.

So how do I know whether it's the monitoring circuits that go bad? or the PSU? I wonder though, if the voltage spike, wouldn't the computer restarted or something?

Anyway, since I don't think every caps in my motherboard were replaced, do you think it should be?

Thanks

[kaniki]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

first, not every cap needs to be replaced.. at least it is not very likely.. a lot of the smaller caps almost never need replacing on the boards.. It is usually more the standard size ones (with top vents), but can not tell you for sure without seeing or testing the board.

as for the caps, i am not sure but a lot of sellers will sell caps to other countries. maybe try badcaps and see. I know he does ship overseas, just not sure about your country..

I have attached some pics of your board that i found on the net. At least now we can see what the board caps positions are..

[PCBONEZ]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

I'll repeat it.

Intel used 85C caps [usually Nichicon] for the small 4&5 mm caps on some boards at least from socket 370 through socket 478.
[Socket 775 if you include Dell-Intel-Foxconn boards.]

They dry out and go bad and don't always bloat.
They start going bad when the boards are 5 to 7 years old depending on how well it was cooled. [The inadequately cooled Dells can kill them even sooner.]

Yeah, that problem isn't typical except to Intel [and Foxconn] made boards, which this is, so I mentioned it.

....

Original caps on a Intel D865PERL sometimes include the defective Nichicon HN and/or HM series caps. [Might also have Chemicon KZG but Intel didn't favor those much.]

If the tech only replaced obviously bloated caps you may still have some bad but not bloated yet HN or HM on the board.

~~

In Indonesia you can probably order Samxon from Big Pope [a member here] who sells Samxon caps out of Hong Kong.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/member.php?u=682

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

So how do I know whether it's the monitoring circuits that go bad? or the PSU? I wonder though, if the voltage spike, wouldn't the computer restarted or something?

To REALLY know you would need an O'scope.

Next best is to remove the caps and check them with an ESR meter and an Ohm meter and a uF meter.

Most people just replace the caps 'and see' [retest the board] because the needed test equipment isn't worth the cost for occasional use.

.

[Pyr0Beast]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

Caps from some ASUS boards (Good ruby's) can be recycled.
But that is for personal use only.

It is not worth of unsoldering and cleaning and soldering them back.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

Not really.
I just wrote something on that in another thread.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...5&postcount=46

[brethin]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

Quality caps I remove (because that is the only true way to test them) that test good with a ESR meter and pass a visual inspection I reuse for some applications.

[jbanter]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

I have attached some pics of your board that i found on the net. At least now we can see what the board caps positions are..

Thanks for the pictures, I don't have my camera with me so I can't take picture.

I'll repeat it.

Intel used 85C caps [usually Nichicon] for the small 4&5 mm caps on some boards at least from socket 370 through socket 478.
[Socket 775 if you include Dell-Intel-Foxconn boards.]

They dry out and go bad and don't always bloat.
They start going bad when the boards are 5 to 7 years old depending on how well it was cooled. [The inadequately cooled Dells can kill them even sooner.]

Yeah, that problem isn't typical except to Intel [and Foxconn] made boards, which this is, so I mentioned it.

....

Original caps on a Intel D865PERL sometimes include the defective Nichicon HN and/or HM series caps. [Might also have Chemicon KZG but Intel didn't favor those much.]

If the tech only replaced obviously bloated caps you may still have some bad but not bloated yet HN or HM on the board.

~~
.

Yep as far as I know, the tech only replaced the bloated caps on the side of the CPU socket. There are about 10 caps or so. The row of caps between the CPU and the 2 yellow circular thingy. (this is not my motherboard, picture taken from kaniki's post) So other than these, you're saying the smaller caps could also be bad (without any visible sign) and causing the hardware monitoring to give odd readings? By the way, before recapping I don't think I ever got any alerts from my hardware monitoring software.

The Nichicon HN/HM, what color do they have or look like?

I have to ask, 85c means the temperature and 4 or 5 mm means diameter?
When I have my camera back I'll try to post my motherboard picture here, hopefully the picture is good.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

HN are black with gold lettering and are marked HN(M)
HM are black with white lettering and are marked HM(M)

The (M) is not part of the part number.
It's the industry standard tolerance mark meaning +/-20% for the uF.
- Most caps you run across will have it somewhere.

Note: If you see a [M] with squarish side brackets and no other logo or brand name it's probably Matsushita - aka Panasonic.

Date codes on Nichicons are like: H0344
.. which would be year 2003 [the 03] and week 44.
Year marks 01 through 04 are bad.
[Some people say 05 too but the problem was ID'ed in mid 2004 and fixed so that isn't correct. Late 2004 is probably okay but as no one has an actual date it's safer to call all 2004 bad.]

Chemicon KZG [another good brand with a bad series] have a shield for a logo and are brown with white letters. The "KZG" will be evident.
[KZJ has the same problem but I'm pretty sure they are too new a series to be on that board.]

.

Nichicon HN


.

Nichicon HM

[PCBONEZ]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

I have to ask, 85c means the temperature and 4 or 5 mm means diameter?

Yes, exactly.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

More Pics from other threads.

.
Chemicon KZG
Note shield logo. All Chemicons have it.



.
Bloated KZJ
KZG and KZJ don't always bloat.



.
Panasonic FM
Note M logo for Matsushita [the parent company]



.
Panasonic FM
Note shape of Panasonic Trademark vent stamp. All Panasonic have it.



I should just send you here...
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=588
But some is out of date...

.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: odd motherboard voltage reading

where does it say that he did not charge anything??? read it again, it said that he repaired it but nothing was said about cost, free or otherwise..

Dont criticize untill you find the facts. He said that he used caps from another motherboard.. He never said that he did not test them, nor did he say that he did.. For all we know, they may have been 2 year old rubycon's and perfectly good... but on the other hand they may also be OST's.. dont know because he did not say.. so how do you know that they were crap caps or that they were no good??

I thought he would be too ashamed to charge for such bad work, unless it was the type of emergency situation that kc8adu mentioned, and any tech who said those caps were oddballs is the type of person who'd probably do no testing of the used replacement caps, except to look for bulging or run a quickie ohm meter check.