Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

OK, I understand now why you are confused. I just look at the training manual, you have two balancers and two inverter boards. I will have to read in details on how to test them.
Read page 50 and 51.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

Here is a video with the problem. It looks like on the left side is the problem.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b0iwueg4tt...KDL52V4100.mp4

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I have measured all the test points on all four balancer boards with MinMax.
Left upper board:
10.38Vac
10.76Vac
10.29Vac
10.48Vac
10.10Vac
10.52Vac
9.24Vac
9.82Vac
10.70Vac
10.18Vac
9.33Vac
10.72Vac
Left lower board:
9.24Vac
9.92Vac
10.13Vac
9.57Vac
10.07Vac
10.60Vac
9.49Vac
9.92Vac
9.76Vac
10.26Vac
9.38Vac
10.52Vac
Vdc at the diode's cathode is: 32.30Vdc

Right upper board:
8.65Vac
10.68Vac
9.50Vac
10.13Vac
9.28Vac
10.29Vac
10.40Vac
10.03Vac
10.20Vac
10.13Vac
10.39Vac
10.51Vac
Right lower board:
10.14Vac
10.31Vac
9.65Vac
10.31Vac
9,59Vac
9.21Vac
9.97Vac
10.01Vac
9.70Vac
10.17Vac
10.16Vac
9.07Vac
Vdc at the diode's cathode is: 33.83Vdc

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

It can't be that one of the inverters is not working? Since the light "goes" from one side to the other, that doesn't mean that?

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I do not know why ALL of them are HI, yes, you do have high voltage otherwise you will not be getting the reading. The signal went HI so it trips the shutdown and display the 13-error. Something that is common to all the lamp detection circuit that causes all to be HI.
I would temp to put ground the Cathode side to ground with 100 Ohms to see if it will stay on and see how the lamps light up normally. Just do not do it too long, we are disabling the shutdown to try and see what is going on. All the small balancer transformers has about the same resistance as shown in the video? And all the traces that link the transformer windings from one to the other are OK? Also make sure that all the board mounting screws are tightened. It may have bad ground or connection some where.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

The resistance of the transformers are the same, around 270 Ohm.
So with the resistor in place, we could see if all the tubes light up, right? We can exclude them if they all light up, right?
At least two of them blink slightly as they turn on. I don't think that is a good thing. I have replaced those tubes and they continued to blink, so it's not the tubes causing the blinking.
It would be nice to get to the bottom of this TV as soon as possible, it takes up almost all my work area.
I'm bolting down the boards with only two screws, each board. They have those metal washer like contacts at those corners. That wouldn't be enough?

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

The lamps should all light up and stay lit with same brightness, no flickering, if anyone of them does that, that must be fixed.
BTW, do you have other SONY or the SAMSUNG with the balancer board to take the readings to see if you are getting the result as shown on youtube?

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

Right now I don't have one, which is working. Only the KDL46EX400 with the 2x error code.

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I will have to do that myself in the future when I get to work on another one.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I do not know why ALL of them are HI, yes, you do have high voltage otherwise you will not be getting the reading. The signal went HI so it trips the shutdown and display the 13-error. Something that is common to all the lamp detection circuit that causes all to be HI.
I would temp to put ground the Cathode side to ground with 100 Ohms to see if it will stay on and see how the lamps light up normally. Just do not do it too long, we are disabling the shutdown to try and see what is going on. All the small balancer transformers has about the same resistance as shown in the video? And all the traces that link the transformer windings from one to the other are OK? Also make sure that all the board mounting screws are tightened. It may have bad ground or connection some where.

How long should I leave the resistor there? A couple of seconds?

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

If you keep the resistor in place, the error signal will not be able to be fed back to the main board, we are just killing the error signal so we can see if all the lamps are on normally. If you remove the resistor, then the error signal will be fed back to the main board and cause the TV to go into shutdown. So leave long enough to see how the TV function and see if you still gets the error code.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to do that test today.
Do you have schematic for a balancer? Could you explain how does it work?
The outer contacts of the transformers are the same as the ground. That is normal? This measurement I have managed to do today.

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

There is the basic diagram in that training manual and explanation how it works.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I'm trying to figure out the circuitry of the primary side of the transformers.
It seems like there are two coils there, no? The two outer pins and the two inner pins.
The outer pins seems like they are connected in series with the rest of the transformers. They all show short to the ground, which I don't think that it's normal.
The inner pins, which are the the ones that are going toward the test points.

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I have some balancer boards at home, I will try to find time to draw out the diagram showing how the transformers are connected.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

Maybe, we should concentrate on the two inverters, to make sure that they are working in the first place.
Since the light in the tubes "travels" from one end to the other, to me that indicates that one inverter is not firing.
I can't find anything wrong, at the balancers or tubes.

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I thought you already follow the training manual regarding to the model with two balancers/inverters page 51:

Dual Inverter Circuits
The use of dual inverters can produce symptoms that will not be seen on single inverter designs. Note that the DF4 board contains the oscillator to drive the inverter on both the DF4 and DF5 boards. The common oscillator and drive circuits are needed to keep the lamp voltages out-of-phase at the opposite ends of the lamps. In this design a unique situation occurs if the inverter fails on the DF5 board.
Note that both inverters have a detect circuit. Both detect lines actually tie together on the DF4 board. The problem with this design is that if only the inverter on the DF5 board fails, the inverter on the DF4 board will still be functioning because that is where the oscillator/drive circuits are located. This will cause the functioning inverter on the DF4 board to keep the inverter error detect line from activating since the common point of both inverter detect lines are not or-gated to isolate them from one another. The unit will never go into inverter protect shutdown. The balancer error detect circuits will activate and the unit will shut down with 13 blinks instead of 6.
Since the DF4 board is operating, the backlights will light momentarily but if one observes the screen closely, you should notice that the right side is backlit with a little more intensity than the left side. It is subtle, but you should be able to detect it. The same symptom could appear if the inverter were to fail on the DF4 board with the oscillator/drive circuits still functional. This would keep the DF5 board active and the symptoms and shutdown events would be the same except the left side of the screen would have a little brighter backlighting than the right before the unit shuts down.

Balancer Errors
When a balancer error occurs, we at least have the ability to observe the lighting of the lamps before the unit shuts down. The unit must a have a correctly functioning inverter to start the lamps and allow the balancer detect circuit to function. In some cases, the lamps may light long enough to see active video or snow for a couple of seconds. Observing the backlighting of the panel at this time is a great tool in determining what is causing the shutdown.
NOTE: Unlike an inverter error where the unit will make 3 attempts to start the inverter, a blanacer error will cause the unit to cycle 2 times before the protect shutdown occurs.
Remember, the purpose of the balancer detect circuit is to monitor a lamp that will not startup. Unless a particular model has a history of a related component causing balancer error shutdowns to occur, it will usually be a defective lamp and that will require replacement of the entire LCD panel. A lamp that is not lighting is difficult to spot due to the efficiency of the diffuser panel to spread the light.
In models that use inverter boards on both sides, observe the screen for uneven lighting from one side to another. This indicates a faulty inverter board and the side that is darkest is where the failed inverter resides.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I have read it, but I haven't fully understand it, but now since you have pointed out the last line, it all make sense.
I will check out that side's inverter.
Thank you for your help, it's much appreciated.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I have turned it on and the left side(watched from the back) not turning on. It's the left upper/lower balancer or the D4 inverter next to the power supply.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-52V4100 13 blink code

I'm looking at it, but I don't know what to do. Keep reading the manual too, but I'm not sure what exactly it's going on and what should I do?
I could go ahead and replace all the ccfl tubes, but I don't know if the inverters work or not. How would I know that?
If I hold the volt meter's probe close to the inverter output wires on Vac, the voltage increases when the tubes turn on. I'm thinking that the inverters work.
So it must be something with the tubes or the left balancer boards.
I will try the resistor trick now.