Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

[tibimakai]

I have just picked up this TV, which is in like new condition, but it has these vertical lines.
Service shop diagnosed it through the phone and they said that it's the mainboard.
To me it looks like T-Con board issue, am I right?

[capkid]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

It looks like a main board issue to me. I would have expected lines in your third picture if it were just the T-CON. Also, everything onscreen in the first picture appears to be superimposed over the lines.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I am going to say main board as well. The T-con is unlikely; unless, it is a TV with motion interpolation and it turns off the motion interpolation when in the menus. Then it could be T-con but main would still be possible.

[multimeter]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

looks very much like main board,can you run a scart lead or hdmi out to another tv?,if the pic is same on other tv,then it would prove main board failiure.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

It's possible to send signal to another TV?

Tom, do you see, another mainboard issue.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

SCARTing out is only available on some European TVs with bidirectional SCART ports... personally I have never managed to get it to work. Never heard of any TV with HDMI out.

If you had a TV with the same or similar panel, you could put them back to back and connect the LVDS from one TV to the other. This has been done before with success by one member.

I am more suspect of the main board but would appreciate a picture of the T-con to confirm if it has the motion interpolation (100/120/200/240/400/480Hz or Sony MotionFlow/MotionPro) on it or not.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

It seems that it has it:
http://store.sony.com/p/KDL-46W4100/en/p/KDL46W4100

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I need a picture to know if the T-CON or MAIN BOARD has the motion interpolation on it. (Or perhaps on a third board like older SONY use.) I know this TV has it.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I will have to take it apart. I have just brought it home last night.
Here is Memorial day weekend, so I won't work to much today and tomorrow.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Some weird development.
I have opened the TV, and I have noticed that the mainboard it looks the same as my other 40" with weird colors.
First I have installed both 40" boards(the original and the one from Ebay) and the TV turned on, but didn't show anything on the screen, just the backlight.
No error codes, or nothing, LED it was green, when everything it's OK.
I thought of installing the 46" mainboard in the 40", and to my amazement, the 40" works great.
So I have two bad mainboards for the 40"?
This 46" mainboard it seems good if it runs well on the 40"?
Picture is taken with my phone.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

That seems like a good conclusion to make. See, how many dud boards we get. It's crazy, no one bothers to test the boards they pull, it's just "well why would they smash a broken TV... they must be working... no way they could have got angry with it..."

The large SONY chip on that board is probably the motionflow processor. It's just a rebranded Samsung processor, I expect. (Basically every Sony TV is a Samsung with better capacitors...) Replacing the T-con is probably the only viable option there.

You will probably find that 40" and 46" main board can be exchanged on this model but many Sony LCD are fussy about that.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

What I don't understand, why the 40" board doesn't work on the 46"?
The 40" it's a year newer the the 46".
What is interesting, that on Ebay everybody sells only broken screen TV's boards.
I'm not sure if I will get back my money from that person. He said that the sale is final. I may have to go to Ebay for my money.
I can say now for sure, that I have a bad(or two) board on the 40"?

[capkid]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

What I don't understand, why the 40" board doesn't work on the 46"?
The 40" it's a year newer the the 46".
What is interesting, that on Ebay everybody sells only broken screen TV's boards.
I'm not sure if I will get back my money from that person. He said that the sale is final. I may have to go to Ebay for my money.
I can say now for sure, that I have a bad(or two) board on the 40"?

Sony main boards are very particular. A lot of times, you have to match up the serial number and/or panel version. I use ShopJimmy to confirm which boards will work.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

So... let me get this straight, you have:

one KDL-40xxxxx main board which works in 40" with bad colours, 46" perfectly?
one KDL-40xxxxx main board which does not work in any TVs at all
one KDL-46W4100 main board which does not work in 40", and does work on 46"?

??

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I have a KDL-40V4100 with those two mainboards showing those weird colors.
And I have a KDL-46W4100 with vertical lines.
The 46" board works in the 40", but none of the 40" boards work in the 46".

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

The T-con probably has an EEPROM on it that the main board reads. Perhaps the 40" main boards are detecting the incompatibility, but the 46" isn't.

[cashkennedy]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Out of curiosity, what does the motion extrapolation chip on the tcon do? Does it require any additional data from the motherboard that a regular tcon would not need?

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

It can sometimes require extra data.

Basically 120Hz TVs add one extra frame in between each frame at 60Hz. This is supposed to make the motion more fluid. (In reality it tends to make it look fake and artificial, but some people like the effect.)

The motion interpolation is done by a high performance ASIC/DSP. The processor analyses each and every pixel in the image. The search range may be around +/-30 pixels around each pixel. If it calculates a motion change between two objects within this range, it attempts to create an in-between frame which interpolates them. Obviously, this requires a helluva lot of processing. Despite all of this, it has the disadvantage of not interpolating larger changes.

If you try this algorithm on the menu interface etc you'll get weird effects (objects moving to the side of it will drag through it) so there is usually a bit of data transmitted telling the T-con what areas to exclude from the motion interpolation. You can see this on TVs which use transparent menus (e.g. Samsung LE40A656.) The background of the menu appears to judder behind the rest of the screen. I'm not sure how this extra data is sent (mask data), probably somehow encoded into the LVDS or I2C, but it's the only main difference between TVs with interpolation and without it. Perhaps on some TVs the motion interpolation is disabled entirely when a menu pops up, but most I have seen use masks.

[cashkennedy]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I figured all the inbetween frames were created by the main board, did not know they were throwing that on the tcon. Makes some sense so they can use mainboards in sets with lower hz panels. Probably makes the tcons super exspensive for factory new replacements, not that ive ever in my life bought a "new board" for a tv.

From what I assume, newer plasmas create a few inbetween frames themselves to fill in the 600hz refresh rate, where are those calculated on a plasma?

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

...duplicate post...