Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

[momaka]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

UPDATE!!!
I doubled the wattage of the lamp by connecting in parallel 2 60W lamps (total 120W) and fired it up again:
The power supply works, the fan moves normally, but the lamps light as if they are connected at ac alone.
Should I try it without the bulbs?

For how long did you test the PSU like this?
If there isn't any significant load, I think the bulbs should turn off after a while (1 to 2 minutes at the most?) I'm not really quite sure on the duration, though. I was just trying a big 670W Dell server PSU the other day, and I too used a 60W light bulb since I didn't know if the 5vsb circuit was dead or not. That PSU was huge, with 2x 450v, 330uF caps on the primary. Once I plugged it in, the light bulb lit brightly. At first I though there was something wrong with the PSU, but after 20 or so seconds, the light bulb turned off - and that was with only 1W load on the 5vsb (the 1W is from a load resistor inside the PSU). So I guess it's just a matter of time how long it takes the primary caps to charge to full potential.
It looks like PSU is working, though.

***EDIT***
Opps, didn't see your last post before there. I think I am blind .

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

I fully recapped that power supply!

2χ470uF Fuhjyyu main caps got replaced with 2x560uF 200V Panasonic

12V pi filter: 2x2200uF 16V Fuhjyyu TNR + TΜR --> 2x3300uF 16V Panasonic FK 12.5mm

5V: 1x3300uF Fuhjyyu TNR + 1x4700uF 10V Fuhjyyu TMR --> 2x3300uF 6.3V Panasonic FK 10mm

3.3V: 2χ3300uF Fuhjyyu TNR + TΜR --> 2x3300uF 6.3V Panasonic FK 10mm

I added an extra 4 pin connector to the existing 20pin ATX connector.

I added 5.6kohm and 4.7kohm (=~2.5kohm) in parallel with RTH2 so that it wont cook itself.

Some of the caps I used were of larger diameter that the original Fuhjyyu, but I managed to squeeze them in.

[momaka]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

Looks very nice!

[shovenose]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

yup, nice job!
does Topcat still carry the 10mm samxons?

[c_hegge]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

Yup. He said in the announcement that he would continue to sell the oddball sized ones, but the more common sizes would be replaced by nichicon.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

The Antec Smart Power psu I repaired and recapped back then, has been sitting in the attic all those years doing nothing.

I took it from there today to test a computer and when connecting it to AC there was a loud bang and right after some smoke and burnt silicon smell caming out of the power supply. The circuit breaker of the room tripped.

It appears that the Active PFC mosfet is shorted. Until now I thought that the reason of this thing happening is the Fuhjyyu primary capacitors going bad. But this is not the case here. This power supply was fully recapped. The replacement primary caps are Panasonic and I tested them and they are in specs. Nothing else seems wrong.

So, what do you think? Is it a badly designed APFC add on board? Should I remove the active pfc completely and run the psu without it? Or should I replace the 2SK2996 that shorted with K10A60D that I have in stock?

[momaka]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

So, what do you think?... Should I remove the active pfc completely and run the psu without it?

Yes, get rid of the APFC. You live in a country with 230 VAC, so efficiency is not a problem for you. If anything, your efficiency will improve.The PF figures will look worse, but no one really cares, except maybe the power company. But for a small load like this (as compated to a stove or a heater, for example), it really doesn't matter at all.

The only time when removing the APFC is not a good idea is if you have a newer power supply that comes with a single 450V cap on primary and you live in a country with 120 VAC mains.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

Well, since I had the replacement mosfets available here and out of scientific curiosity, I replaced the shorted mosfet with K10A60D and plugged the psu to the mains with a lamp in series.

5vsb worked without any problem. Then I disconnected the mains right after I shorted green with ground and the fans spinned for a second. I din't let the psu run ON with the lamp in series cause from my experience that apfc doesn't like the lamp in series trick.

Then I connected the psu directly to AC mains. 5VSB worked without any incident. Then I shorted green and ground and plugged it to mains... the mosfet shorted again and the circuit breaker tripped. So, there is definitely something wrong that makes the APFC Mosfet break. I hope it's something in the APFC board, but I can't say for sure until I replace it with a bridge rectifier and test the power supply again.

I am very curious about the reason that all these APFCs die. Could it be bad desing? There are incidents where the APFC coil gets hot. I attach a photo with APFC boards from Antec Smart Power psus sold in EU. On 1 of them the toroid coil material is burnt.

@momaka the worst about removing permanently the APFC board is that the primary caps (originally 2x470uF 200V Fuhjyyu recapped with Panasonic 560uF 200V) need to be replaced with 820uF or 1000uF or else, due to lower voltage across the primary caps the power supply will not be able to output more than 350W...

[stj]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

if you use a lamp,
use a 100-150w halogen linear strip.
those have a lower resistance.

you can get them for 10-15Euro in a waterproof casing with a PIR sensor on them for security/garden use.

some examples:
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrica...p-120W-23-5144
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrica...-White-23-9187
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrica...ciency-23-0929

[momaka]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

@momaka the worst about removing permanently the APFC board is that the primary caps (originally 2x470uF 200V Fuhjyyu recapped with Panasonic 560uF 200V) need to be replaced with 820uF or 1000uF or else, due to lower voltage across the primary caps the power supply will not be able to output more than 350W...

But if you are not going to use it in a machine that draws more than 350W from it, you might as well leave it as is.

I din't let the psu run ON with the lamp in series cause from my experience that apfc doesn't like the lamp in series trick.

It's okay to use the lamp in series with an APFC PSU as long as you don't put much load on it. You'll probably see the lamp turn on and/or flicker a lot and possibly have the PSU making weird noises for about 10 seconds give or take. But once the APFC builds up the proper voltage in the primary caps, this will stop and PSU will work normal.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

I have an identical Antec Smart Power 450W with APFC that I repaired 2 years ago. It has not seen much use since then. I can't remember when it was the last time that I used it to power a PC. Let's connect it to AC 240V and see what happens...

[Behemot]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

Momaka: I am not really friend of the idea of removing PFC. It has nothing in common with power factor in terms of phase change, we are dealing with harmonics here and that is some crazy stuff.

That idea was spread here by PCBonez who obviously had no idea about harmonics and power factor correction (I did not have by that time as well but at least I wass not talking rubbish), despite supposedly working in power making/distribution industry. Losses are not really problem (that is problem of phase change), harmonics are. And not only for distributors but for industry, especially the ones using motors. That is almost anybody after all (every industry machien has some motor), than you have motors in various home appliances, big old motors in elevators etc. Harmonics damage all that and it's pretty fucking expensive to change huge motor on top of elevator schaft.

Than it can make some serious intereference with radios, TVs, today also with all those wireless things you have at home. If insufficient input filters are present, it will stress and damage every other single SMPS you have at home (also dozens of them - different chargers, TVs, monitors, printers etc.). So telling somebody to remove PFC is really pretty stupid thing, it will damage everybody around you, including yourself.

[kc8adu]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

what a load of bullshit!
in a residential environment lack of pfc means NOTHING!
imho its not worth the added complexity.so when it fails no big deal to gut it and replace with a doubler here or a full wave bridge on the other side of the pond.
the rfi suppressing parts are retained.
i have both types here and lots of hf radio gear.
i dropped the noise floor on 75m here by replacing a pfc unit with non pfc.
and my evil non pfc psu cannot damage your elevater motor!

Momaka: I am not really friend of the idea of removing PFC. It has nothing in common with power factor in terms of phase change, we are dealing with harmonics here and that is some crazy stuff.

That idea was spread here by PCBonez who obviously had no idea about harmonics and power factor correction (I did not have by that time as well but at least I wass not talking rubbish), despite supposedly working in power making/distribution industry. Losses are not really problem (that is problem of phase change), harmonics are. And not only for distributors but for industry, especially the ones using motors. That is almost anybody after all (every industry machien has some motor), than you have motors in various home appliances, big old motors in elevators etc. Harmonics damage all that and it's pretty fucking expensive to change huge motor on top of elevator schaft.

Than it can make some serious intereference with radios, TVs, today also with all those wireless things you have at home. If insufficient input filters are present, it will stress and damage every other single SMPS you have at home (also dozens of them - different chargers, TVs, monitors, printers etc.). So telling somebody to remove PFC is really pretty stupid thing, it will damage everybody around you, including yourself.

[Behemot]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

Some of you may not noticed yet but this problems is being observed from 80s with increasing frequency over time, resulting in legislative measures. There is loads of papers about this problem and most of them do not even cover things like currents flowing through metal skelet of buildings, which may also be higher because of harmonics.

For example:
- http://electricalquestionsguide.blog...or-impact.html
- http://www.cpccorp.com/harmonic.htm
- https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...e313b4967d.pdf

Surely one PSU without PFC won't do that much since everything else has some correction. Back in 90s when the problem was peaking since there were almost no PSUs with PFC, it was much worse. On the other hand, todays electronics is much more sensitive (working on higher frequencies, with tighter limits etc.) so even lower distortions may impact them.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

Guys, I have two identical Antec Smartpower 450W psus, one has still APFC add on board and works without a prob
and the other has its PFC mosfet blowing repeatedly, so I removed the add on board and replaced with bridge rectifier. The input filtering is present and good for a 450W psu. Now I need to put bigger input caps, 1000uF would be nice.

But what worries me is that the same thing might happen suddenly to the other, still working, APFC board. It would make me feel more confident if I knew what is the reason of all those failures... Could it be the coil? Or some resistor? I tested them and didn't find something failed or open.

[Behemot]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

Unfortunatelly I cannot help you either. There has been several threads about different PSUs shoving the same behaviour with mostly no luck IIRC, I also have run into few such and found nothing so far. At least now I have CT-micro so I am able to measure even foil and ceramic capacitors and similar devices, maybe the problem is there. Or the PFC controller?

[kc8adu]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

intermittant shorted turns in the coil.
run too hot and subject to vibration.
had one i could hook to a ringer and tap to see this.

Guys, I have two identical Antec Smartpower 450W psus, one has still APFC add on board and works without a prob
and the other has its PFC mosfet blowing repeatedly, so I removed the add on board and replaced with bridge rectifier. The input filtering is present and good for a 450W psu. Now I need to put bigger input caps, 1000uF would be nice.

But what worries me is that the same thing might happen suddenly to the other, still working, APFC board. It would make me feel more confident if I knew what is the reason of all those failures... Could it be the coil? Or some resistor? I tested them and didn't find something failed or open.

[stefos]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

?.....so I removed the add on board and replaced with bridge rectifier.......

Can you please share a photo of this action?
Thanks a lot.

[kc8adu]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

not considered a big deal here.
big tv,higher end psu have it but not the vast majority of stuff with smps.
bean counters wont allow it till its mandated.even most wallwarts are smps now.but it takes a lot of these units without pfc to even be noticeable.
if it were going to be a big deal here it would certainly be now.esp with all the cfl's.
i autopsy(and sometimes repair go ahead and call me crazy)any that fail and have never seen pfc in any.

Some of you may not noticed yet but this problems is being observed from 80s with increasing frequency over time, resulting in legislative measures. There is loads of papers about this problem and most of them do not even cover things like currents flowing through metal skelet of buildings, which may also be higher because of harmonics.

For example:
- http://electricalquestionsguide.blog...or-impact.html
- http://www.cpccorp.com/harmonic.htm
- https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...e313b4967d.pdf

Surely one PSU without PFC won't do that much since everything else has some correction. Back in 90s when the problem was peaking since there were almost no PSUs with PFC, it was much worse. On the other hand, todays electronics is much more sensitive (working on higher frequencies, with tighter limits etc.) so even lower distortions may impact them.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Antec SL450P Smart Power Exploded!

Can you please share a photo of this action?
Thanks a lot.

It is quite simple. You just need to be careful with the polarity.