Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Supply

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

dmill89, thanks for taking the time to answer the questions like usual.

So basically only the primary caps is responsible for the input current, I wasn't planning to increase the capacitance but was thinking of increasing the voltage since I was trying to see if I can get a 2x 220V or 250V caps with the same 1000uF capacitance as 400VDC seems like what the actual voltage can actually hit but there aren't anything in the same dimensions or smaller so that thought basically went out the window.

The only thing I can see with the PVs is that just like you said, it's half the price for the UCC KYs except the Nichicon PVs have a higher impedance. So it seems like at least for this one:
2 x 50v 10uF 6mmx13mm, my choices are United Chemi-Con KY 50v 10uF 5X11mm or the Rubycon YXJ 5x12.5mm which cost roughly the same. I'm leaning towards the KYs unless the YXJ's are better, not sure if the 1.5mm height is going to help any.

I kept forgetting that the objective is to replace the aluminum electrolytics and not the other types of caps. I noticed that the only Sanyo OS-CON 2.2uF 25v polymer caps available is from someone in China selling it on EBay so there is a high chance of it being fake. I did measure the Sanyo OS-CON with a digital multi-meter and it does test at 2.2uF. I was wondering what would actually happen electrically-wise if I did replace that with a 6.8v OS-CON polymer cap should it fail at a later date, would there be any problems since it doesn't seem like there are quality replacements polymer caps available that meets the specs? The Sanyo is part of the daughterboard, any ideas what the daughterboard is actually for since other Power Supplies usually don't have it and seems like other than the big square capacitors that shows 250v/275v, all the capacitors are between 25V-50V on that board.

For the 4 x 50v 1uF 5mmx8mm, I've decided to get Rubycon YXJ 50v 1uF 5X11mm as it seems to be the same impedance as the YXF but with a higher ripple rating. The Nichicon PV's has a way higher impedance.

Seems like in all the Corsair AXi series, they use Panasonic input caps and since it is cheaper than the other options and it's still available at 1/2 the cost, it seems to be the best value for something of quality.

I decided on 4 x 25v 100uF 7mmx12mm -> United Chemi-Con KY 25v 100uF 6.3mmx11mm as KYs has a lower impedance than the Nichicon PV and way cheaper.

Good point on 10v replacements for the 6.3v caps as additional overhead is always good for the same price and last longer since I thought durability was based on the 105c rated hours but I guess when you don't push the voltage to the max on a 10v cap as it will probably be 63% max, it will add to the reliability.

Is there any other good options for the 1 x 25v 22uF 6mmx13mm replacement capacitor as the Nichicon HC was a good option except I can not find it in stock anywhere. The Rubycon ZLG has the exact same 270mOhm impedance and 350mA ripple current as the Nichicon HC except it is also not in stock anywhere.

Just as I thought, that higher ripple rating is a good thing as far as reliability is concerned, thanks for pointing out that lower impedence would reduce filtering performance since I think PC Power & Cooling advertised the Turbo-Cool Power Supplies as being high filtering performance. Hopefully all of these caps will give at least the performance of the original caps.

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Forgot to ask but what would be suitable for the impedence/ESR and ripple current for the 25v 22uF cap replacement as a good option?

[c_hegge]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

^
I would go with an entry-level Low ESR seris, such as Panasonic FC, Nichicon PW, or Chemi-con LXZ. I can't think of the exact specs off hand, but they always work fine for me when replacing the small <100uF caps. I use 22uF 50V caps to replace 22uF 25V caps, as they are more common and I often have a heap of them on hand.

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Thanks c_hegge, I think the part is I'm trying to figure out exactly what "Low ESR" means as far as the actual numbers are concerned. When looking at the chart, it seems like when it comes to both high ripple current and low impedance, both the Rubycon ZLG and Nichicon HC 25v 22uF caps has 350mA ripple current/270 mOhm impedance which has a 1000 hr life at 105c except I don't see Digikey stocking them. The next thing on the list is the Panasonic FR 50v 22uF which has a 250mA ripple current/340mOhm impedance with a 5,000 hr life at 105c. Is the impedance too low on these for a power supply since it would seem the FR would give the longest life. I noticed in the Antec 450Watt PSU thread, it does come with a 22uF 50v cap instead of a 25v cap so I was thinking about the 50v route instead, I would have thought someone would be able to get a lower impedance and higher ripple current on a 50v cap than Rubycon ZLG/Nichicon HC at 25v or at least have something comparable. The Chemi-Con KZE seems to have similar specs as the Panasonic FR except with a 2,000 hr 105C life. Does the application purpose of the cap really matter since I noticed the ones I listed are General Purpose while the Panasonic FC is listed as Automotive. Reason I ask is I noticed Elna makes 25v 22uF caps which are for audio use, would those actually work as well?

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Before placing my order for the capacitors, I was looking at the 2 x 16v 4700uF 14mmx41mm replacements again. dmill89 mentioned that lower impedance will reduce filtering performance. I was looking at the UCC KY which is 0.018 Ohm/3.14A Ripple and the Panasonic FR which is 0.012 Ohm/3.75A Ripple. Is the 0.006 Ohm difference in impedance going to really matter since the number looked bigger when it was expressed as 18 mOhm and 12 mOhm but seems like the number differs only in the 3rd number after the decimal, it seems like a small issue. On another note, isn't the filtering performance actually based on the quality of the capacitor rather than the ESR rating as you can have a low quality cap with a low ESR and have poor filtering or have a high quality cap with a low ESR and have high performance filtering.

[budm]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

"lower impedance will reduce filtering performance." I sure would like to see the info and the tech reason for that. i can see too low of ESR can cause circuit to become unstable.

[dmill89]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Before placing my order for the capacitors, I was looking at the 2 x 16v 4700uF 14mmx41mm replacements again. dmill89 mentioned that lower impedance will reduce filtering performance. I was looking at the UCC KY which is 0.018 Ohm/3.14A Ripple and the Panasonic FR which is 0.012 Ohm/3.75A Ripple. Is the 0.006 Ohm difference in impedance going to really matter since the number looked bigger when it was expressed as 18 mOhm and 12 mOhm but seems like the number differs only in the 3rd number after the decimal, it seems like a small issue. On another note, isn't the filtering performance actually based on the quality of the capacitor rather than the ESR rating as you can have a low quality cap with a low ESR and have poor filtering or have a high quality cap with a low ESR and have high performance filtering.

Odds are it won't be enough to make a big difference either way, and both have a ripple rating that is more than sufficient. However, unless you find a really good deal on the Panasonics somewhere, I couldn't see paying more for the Panasonics that will if anything actually reduce performance (or have no effect at all).

Many variables affect filtering performance, you have to consider the whole circuit not just the capacitors. When the circuit was designed it was designed for specific spec capacitors (the OE caps) going too far away from the original specs on replacement components can throw off the circuit and create more ripple, either cap selection is probably lower ESR than what the PSU came with (mainly due to age, cap technology has advanced greatly in the 12 years since this PSU was made), FRs are just likely to be further off the original spec than KYs, it is hard to say if or how much that will affect ripple of the output.

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Thanks dmill89 for your input as always. I was thinking about the FR's because if I am ordering just the 2 x 200v 1000uF Panasonic's from mouser.com, it will make the cost of each Panasonic higher just for the 2 items than if I added another 2 x 16v 4700uF Panasonic FR's to that same order as it would really just add $1 maximum to the total of the order including shipping. Is Panasonic a new player in capacitors since it seems like Nichicon, Rubycon and Chemi-con are way more popular and Panasonic's are only used a lot because digikey sells them at a cheaper price than the other brands. In fact, I was looking at a PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 850ATX review today and it seems like the primary capacitor is a single Hitachi and the rest of it is all Chemi-Con KY's. Are Hitachi's available to OEMs only because I haven't seen it for sale anywhere. I just hope the 2.2uF 25v polymer Sanyo OS-CON doesn't fail in the lifetime of the PSU as it seems like there isn't a suitable replacement for that one as 6.8uF is the smallest capacitance made for the OS-CON polymer caps currently and I don't think I want to go with the regular cap route either as a replacement. I did a cap measurement with a DMM and it measures 2.45uF in both correct and reverse polarity. Are motherboard's a different animal since I noticed that people are replacing rubycon YXG 6.3v 1000uF 0.087 Ohm/504mA capacitors with Nichicon HZ 6.3v 1000uF 0.014 Ohm 2210mA as the later is 6x lower impedance and 4 times higher ripple than the OE without problems on motherboards that are 12+ years old without problems, just out of curiousity. I'll stick with the UCC KY's just to be on the safe side. On another note, when people talk about Japanese capacitors, does it just need to be a Japanese brand or does it actually have to be made in Japan because the Panasonic FR's are made in Malaysia according to the spec sheet but people seem to label Panasonic as Japanese.

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

I ordered and received the following capacitors as recommended by dmill89 with great thanks! Hope the Chemi-Con caps made in China and Indonesia are reliable with Chemi-Con's good quality. Didn't realize until looking at the other thread that dmill89 had PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool PSUs.

(D) = Digikey.com and (M) = Mouser.com, the country of origin and the date code is inside the ()'s, not sure how to decode the Chemi-Con or Panasonic caps.

2 x 50v 10uF 6mmx13mm -> United Chemi-Con KY (Indonesia 41 Yk) 50v 10uF 5mmX11mm (D)

1 x 50v 4.7uF 6mmx13mm -> United Chemi-Con KY (Indonesia 41 bK) 50v 4.7uF 5mmx11mm (D)

1 x 25v 68uF 7mmx13mm -> Rubycon ZLH (Japan A1422) 25v 68uF 5mmx11mm (D)

4 x 50v 1uF 5mmx8mm -> Rubycon YXJ (Japan A1414) 50v 1uF 5mmX11mm (D)

2 x 200v 1000uF 25mmx52mm -> Panasonic TS-ED (Malaysia 1O10D) 200v 1000uF 25mmx45mm(M)

1 x 25v 47uF 6mmx12.5mm -> Panasonic FR (Malaysia 41IVGN) 25v 47uF 5mmX11mm (D)

4 x 25v 100uF 7mmx12mm -> United Chemi-Con KY (Indonesia 4 (k) 1 J) 25v 100uF 6.3mmx11mm (D)

2 x 6.3v 1000uF 9mmx16mm -> United Chemi-Con KY (Indonesia 4 (k) 3 Q) 10v 1000uF 8mmx20mm (D)

1 x 6.3v 47uF 6mmx8mm -> Nichicon PW (Malaysia B1216) 10v 47uF 5mmx11mm (D)

1 x 25v 22uF 6mmx13mm -> Panasonic FR (Malaysia 20IV0B) 50v 22uF 5mmx11mm (D)

1 x 25v 1000uF 11mmx21mm -> United Chemi-Con KY (Japan 3(T) 9 R) 25v 1000uF 10mmx30mm (D)

3 x 10v 4700uF 13mmx31mm -> United Chemi-Con KY (China 2(T) 0 V) 10v 4700uF 12.5mmx35mm (D)

1 x 10v 6800uF 17mmx37mm -> United Chemi-Con KY (Japan 3(T) 1b) 10v 6800uF 16mmx31.5mm (D)

2 x 16v 4700uF 14mmx41mm -> United Chemi-Con KYB (Japan 4 (2) 8E) 16v 4700uF 12.5mmx35mm (D)