Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Supply

[Almighty1]

Greetings:

It appears that the capacitors in my PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Supply need replacement. This power supply appears to be made by WIN-TACT Corp as the two circuit boards all say PC Power & Cooling, Inc. on them but one of the boards has WIN-TACT Corp stamped on it. In any case, I'm not sure what replacements to get, if I can't find something with the exact voltage or uF, would there be problems using something with a higher voltage of uF rating or what's the correct way to go for it? I bought the power supply in I think 2000/2001 which was used on a Pentium 3 and later a Pentium 4 with the P4 power adapter later on. All the capacitors are dated from 1998-2000 as the quality check date is August 2000. The power supply died once in 2005 or 2006 when it would shut off by it's own while I can still boot the system afterwards and I sent it back to PC Power & Cooling for warranty repair, it seems the capacitors replaced 3 x Hermei 10v 4700uF 0436 at c40, c35, right of c35 with the date code 0436 (36th week of 2004) and the 1x Teapo 10v 6800uF (swollen & leaking) September 2004 datecode at c39.

In any case, this is the capacitors list as I basically de-soldered all the capacitors as the voltage and uF was on the side I can't see:

Mini Circuit Board
(c208) Teapo 10uF 50v 10/99
(c201) Sanyo 2.2/25 - is this 2.2uF 25v as it just has 2.2 with a line over 25?
(Extension Board of Mini Circuit Board) 4.7uF 50v 03/99
(c318) Teapo 68uF 25v 10/99
(c309) Teapo 1uF 50v 04/00
(c310) Teapo 1uF 50v 04/00
(c302) Teapo 10uF 50v 12/99
(u301) PCE-TUR 1uF 50v 2008
(c303) PCE-TUR 1uF 50v 2008

Main Circuit Board
(c3) Teapo 200v 1000uF (swollen) 01/00
(c4) Teapo 200v 1000uF (swollen) 01/00
(c12) Teapo 25v 47uF 09/98
(c13) Teapo 25v 100uF 06/00
(c14) Teapo 6.3v 1000uF 01/00
(c43) Teapo 6.3v 47uF 01/00
(c33) Teapo 25v 22uF 11/99
(c15) Teapo 6.3v 1000uF 01/00
(c36) Teapo 25v 100uF 03/00
(c20) Teapo 25v 100uF 01/00
(c19) Hermei 25v 1000uF no date stamp
(c21) Teapo 25v 100uF 01/00
(c40) Hermei 10v 4700uF 0436
(c39) Teapo 10v 6800uF (swollen & leaking) 09/04
(c35) Hermei 10v 4700uF (swollen) 0436
(Right of C35) Hermei 10v 4700uF 0436
(c23) Teapo 16v 4700uF 08/00
(c24) Teapo 16v 4700uF 08/00

For some reason, I thought PC Power & Cooling was supposed to use better quality capacitors as part of their modification but guess not. I was actually using the computer and then it went off all of a sudden. Was unable to power it on but it seems like the motherboard's green light is still on and every time I plug AC back in after unplugging, I can get the case power light to blink once for a millisecond but nothing afterwards.

There is a small circuit board which has nothing on one side which has two soldered connections to the other side which is copper from the bottom of the main board. I can only find one of the connections as the other one is probably one of the pins from one of the capacitors I de-soldered, anyone know if this is important and what is is used for? Thanks in advance for any assistance!

[kasfamily]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

For a complete study remains to measure the actual capacity of each cap and ESR and of course pictures of the boards

[shovenose]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Wow, I'm surprised they used such horrible caps.
When finding replacements you will want to match capacitance, voltage, ESR, temperature, and size.

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

What about if I can't find something in the same voltage or capacitance? Can I use something with a higher voltage or capacitance rating? As for temperature, it seems like they are all 105 degrees from what I can tell, some are lower, not sure about the ESR though.

[kasfamily]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Use all cap at 105 degrees with low ESR, can be applied to large capacity and higher voltage

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

How much higher on the voltage and/or capacitance can I go for the replacement? I noticed badcaps.net doesn't sell anything close to a 200v 1000uF for example.

Also, there is a capacitor labeled Sanyo 2.2/25 - is this 2.2uF 25v as it just has 2.2 with a line over 25?

[dmill89]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

How much higher on the voltage and/or capacitance can I go for the replacement? I noticed badcaps.net doesn't sell anything close to a 200v 1000uF for example.

Also, there is a capacitor labeled Sanyo 2.2/25 - is this 2.2uF 25v as it just has 2.2 with a line over 25?

For voltage you can go as high as will fit in the location (capacitors generally get larger as voltage rating increases), the voltage is the maximum voltage rating so as long as it is as least as high as what you replaced you'll be fine.

For capacitance you can increase it on the filter caps though it is generally a good idea not to more than double the capacitance of what you're replacing.

You could take a bunch of time and look up all the caps and try to find an exact match (or as close as possible) if data sheets are even available for caps this old (you can probably find them for the Teapos and Sanyo, but the Hermeis may be hard to find) but entry low-esr caps designed for a PSU such as Nichicon PW or Nippon-Chemi-Con/United-Chemicon KY/LXV/LXY/LXZ would probably be suitable.

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Thanks dmill89 for the info, I redid the list so it is more sorted out... Are there any advantages/disadvantages to going with a higher voltage and/or capacitance? Which one do people change to get higher overclocking stability? Is Low-ESR the same thing as low impedence?

Anyways, here is the list, my ruler might be 1mm off so hope someone can let me know if these are good replacement candidates or are there others out there:

2 x 50v 10uF 6mmx13mm
Candidates are: Nichicon PV 50v 10uF 5X11mm,
Nichicon PM 50v 22uF 6.3X11mm

1 x 25v x 2.2uF 6mmx7.5mm - see attached picture
Not sure if this is 25v 2.2uF or 25uF 2.2volt, don't see anything with this uF rating anywhere.

1 x 50v 4.7uF 6mmx13mm
Candidates are: Nichicon PV 50v 10uF 5X11mm as I don't see anything else 4.7uF or higher

1 x 25v 68uf 7mmx13mm
Candidates are: Rubycon ZLG 25v 100uF 6.3X11mm as I don't see anything else 68uF or higher

4 x 50v 1uF 5mmx8mm
Candidates are: Rubycon YXF 50v 1uF 5X11mm,
Panasonic FC 50v 2.2uF 5X11mm

2 x 200v 1000uF 25mmx52mm
Any recommended replacements for this?

1 x 25v 47uF 6mmx12.5mm
Candidates are: Panasonic FR 25v 47uF 5X11mm,
Rubycon ZLG 25v 100uF 6.3X11mm

4 x 25v 100uF 7mmx12mm
Candidates are: Rubycon ZLG 25v 100uF 6.3X11mm,
Rubycon ZLJ 25v 150uF 6.3X11mm,
Panasonic FR 25v 150uF 6.3X11.2mm

2 x 6.3v 1000uF 9mmx16mm
Candidates are: Nichicon HZ 1000uf 6.3v 8X15mm,
Nichicon HN 1000uf 6.3v 8X15mm,
Nichicon HM 1000uF 6.3v 8X15mm,
Rubycon MCZ 1200uf 6.3v 8mmx16mm,
Nichicon HM 1200uf 6.3v 8X15mm,
Nichicon HZ 1800uf 6.3v 8X20mm,
Nichicon HN 1800uf 6.3v 8X20mm

1 x 6.3v 47uF 6mmx8mm
Candidates are: Rubycon ZL 10v 220uF 6.3X11mm,
Rubycon ZLG 25v 100uF 6.3X11mm,
Nichicon PM 35v 47uF 6.3X11mm
Couldn't find anything with the same voltage with a lower
capacitance that would be around 6mm in width as height
doesn't matter that much.

1 x 25v 22uF 6mmx13mm
Candidates are: Nichicon HC 25v 22uF 5X7mm,
Rubycon YXJ 25v 33uF 5X11mm,
Panasonic FR 25v 47uF 5X11mm

1 x 25v 1000uF 11mmx21mm
Candidates are: Rubycon ZLK 25v 1000uF 10X25mm,
Rubycon ZLJ 25v 1000uF 10X20mm,
United Chemi-Con KZH 25v 1000uF 10X25mm

3 x 10v 4700uF 13mmx31mm
Candidates are: Nichicon HN 4700uF 10v 12.5X25mm,
Nichicon VZ 4700uF 10v 12.5X25mm

1 x 10v 6800uF 17mmx37mm
Cannot find anything that is 6800+uF at 10v or higher

2 x 16v 4700uF 14mmx41mm
Cannot find anything that is 4700+uF at 16v or higher

[kasfamily]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...599269624.html

[kasfamily]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

this is replacement for 25v 2.2uF http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...035595444.html

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Thanks kasfamily for the help. I'm trying to look for decent or premium quality caps if possible sold within the U.S. since it will be cost prohibitive to be buying internationally, not to mention there are lots of fake caps out there.

[dmill89]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Thanks dmill89 for the info, I redid the list so it is more sorted out... Are there any advantages/disadvantages to going with a higher voltage and/or capacitance? Which one do people change to get higher overclocking stability? Is Low-ESR the same thing as low impedence?

Low ESR and low Impedance are affectively the same thing. Higher capacitance on filter caps can increase stability in cheap PSUs, but the PCP&C Turbo-Cools are very over-built to begin with so there is no need to increase capacitance unless you can't find direct replacements.

For the cap list:
Anyways, here is the list, my ruler might be 1mm off so hope someone can let me know if these are good replacement candidates or are there others out there:

2 x 50v 10uF 6mmx13mm
Candidates are: Nichicon PV 50v 10uF 5X11mm,
Nichicon PM 50v 22uF 6.3X11mm Both are decent options, the PVs have a longer rated life (5,000 hrs. vs. 2,000 hrs.) so I would probably go with them

1 x 25v x 2.2uF 6mmx7.5mm - see attached picture
Not sure if this is 25v 2.2uF or 25uF 2.2volt, don't see anything with this uF rating anywhere. odds are a sanyo cap is good looks like UCC KY is available in 2.2 uf 50v 5mm diameter if you want to replace it though http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1595-ND/756111


1 x 50v 4.7uF 6mmx13mm
Candidates are: Nichicon PV 50v 10uF 5X11mm as I don't see anything else 4.7uF or higher Nichicon PW and UCC KY are both available in 50v 4.7uf, I'd go with the KYs again due to longer rated life. http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1597-ND/756113

1 x 25v 68uf 7mmx13mm
Candidates are: Rubycon ZLG 25v 100uF 6.3X11mm as I don't see anything else 68uF or higher Nichicon PV and Rubycon ZLH are both available in 25v 68 up, both are good options: http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...243-ND/3562949
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...6-1-ND/4319820

4 x 50v 1uF 5mmx8mm
Candidates are: Rubycon YXF 50v 1uF 5X11mm,
Panasonic FC 50v 2.2uF 5X11mm I'd go with the Rubycons, best to stick with the same uf for the small capacitors in the control circuits if possible

2 x 200v 1000uF 25mmx52mm
Any recommended replacements for this? Looks like the Nichicon GU is probably the best price vs. performance right now:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...710-ND/1004371 other options include the Panasonic TS-ED (non-stock at digikey, you may be able to find them somewhere else), UCC KMS, and Nichicon GX (longer rated life but a bit more expensive)
1 x 25v 47uF 6mmx12.5mm
Candidates are: Panasonic FR 25v 47uF 5X11mm,
Rubycon ZLG 25v 100uF 6.3X11mm The Panasonic is a good option, again best to keep uf the same for non-filter caps UCC KYs would also be a decent option

4 x 25v 100uF 7mmx12mm
Candidates are: Rubycon ZLG 25v 100uF 6.3X11mm,
Rubycon ZLJ 25v 150uF 6.3X11mm,
Panasonic FR 25v 150uF 6.3X11.2mm I'd probably go with something like UCC KY, Nichicon PV/PW, etc. the ZLGs are a match in voltage/uf, but are ultra-low esr which are really intended for a motherboard not a PSU.

2 x 6.3v 1000uF 9mmx16mm
Candidates are: Nichicon HZ 1000uf 6.3v 8X15mm,
Nichicon HN 1000uf 6.3v 8X15mm,
Nichicon HM 1000uF 6.3v 8X15mm,
Rubycon MCZ 1200uf 6.3v 8mmx16mm,
Nichicon HM 1200uf 6.3v 8X15mm,
Nichicon HZ 1800uf 6.3v 8X20mm,
Nichicon HN 1800uf 6.3v 8X20mm I'd probably bump up the voltage rating to 10v for these UCC KY or Nichicon PW, again HM, HZ, HN, and MCZ re ultra-low esr, not the best options for PSUshttp://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1504-ND/756020
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1746-ND/589487

1 x 6.3v 47uF 6mmx8mm
Candidates are: Rubycon ZL 10v 220uF 6.3X11mm,
Rubycon ZLG 25v 100uF 6.3X11mm,
Nichicon PM 35v 47uF 6.3X11mm
Couldn't find anything with the same voltage with a lower
capacitance that would be around 6mm in width as height
doesn't matter that much. again I'd probably go to 10v, Nichicon PW are available in 10v 47uf in 5mm diameter http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1732-ND/589473

1 x 25v 22uF 6mmx13mm
Candidates are: Nichicon HC 25v 22uF 5X7mm,
Rubycon YXJ 25v 33uF 5X11mm,
Panasonic FR 25v 47uF 5X11mm The Nichicon HCs are a good option

1 x 25v 1000uF 11mmx21mm
Candidates are: Rubycon ZLK 25v 1000uF 10X25mm,
Rubycon ZLJ 25v 1000uF 10X20mm,
United Chemi-Con KZH 25v 1000uF 10X25mm ZLJs are a little lower ESR than needed but are probably the best option out of those, UCC KY or Nichicon PW would probably be better options though, KZH is much lower ESR than should really be used in a PSU

3 x 10v 4700uF 13mmx31mm
Candidates are: Nichicon HN 4700uF 10v 12.5X25mm,
Nichicon VZ 4700uF 10v 12.5X25mm VZs are GP and probably to high ESR, HN are motherboard grade and probably too low ESR, I'd probably go with UCC KY http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1515-ND/756031

1 x 10v 6800uF 17mmx37mm
Cannot find anything that is 6800+uF at 10v or higher UCC KY is available in 10v 6800uf and 16 mm diameter and should be a good option http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1518-ND/756034

2 x 16v 4700uF 14mmx41mm
Cannot find anything that is 4700+uF at 16v or higher UCC KYB are available in 16v 4700uf 12.5 mm, UCC KYs will also work if you can fit a 16 mm cap
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...874-ND/4843684
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1538-ND/756054

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

My other question is that on the bottom of the main PCB, there is a another plain PCB mounted to the main PCB that has no traces or anything on the side facing the main PCB but the other side is copper and has 2 connections or 2 holes on the entire board, one seems to connect using a soldered small wire to the same trace as the negative (-) side of (c23) 16v 4700uF capacitor. The other one I am not sure as apparently the soldered wire broke off when I desoldered it but the hole basically matches up with the negative (-) side of (c40) 10v 4700uF capacitor. Is this board required since I'm worried if c40 is not the correct location, it might mess everything else up since I have no idea what it is used for and I don't see anyone else has this power supply.

[c_hegge]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

^
If the board was there originally, then it probably is required. Hard to say for sure, though. Also, I wouldn't bother replacing the 2.2uF cap which you posted a picture of before, it's a Sanyo OS-CON, which are a polymer cap and are very reliable.

2 x 16v 4700uF 14mmx41mm
Cannot find anything that is 4700+uF at 16v or higher UCC KYB are available in 16v 4700uf 12.5 mm, UCC KYs will also work if you can fit a 16 mm cap
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...874-ND/4843684
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1538-ND/756054

Panny FR also has a 4700uF 16V in 12.5mm diameter

http://www.digikey.com/product-searc...=0&pageSize=25

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

I found an entire webpage on the PSU I have which has the board I'm referring to right above the picture of the fan at http://terasan.info/dengen/no041/index.html

I think it says it's probably used for ground, too bad no one has a picture of it desoldered.

Thanks c_hegge, you solved the mystery on that one. I always thought poly caps were all metal even on the sides which was why I thought it was a regular cap. Is there supposed to be a date stamp on these? I'm just concerned after 14 years of usage, it might be better to replace it. Is it possible to even get a replacement Sanyo OS-CON cap since I do see it on Ebay from someone selling a lot of 10 in the UK.

Speaking about life expectancy, I noticed the caps are all 3,000-10,000hrs but it seems I had my system on 24x7x365 since 2000 at least which would have been more than those hours, do they only fail in those amount of hours at 105C temps?

As for caps, is United Chemi-con actually Japanese caps? Between United Chemi-con and Panasonic, which one actually makes more premium caps?

[c_hegge]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

I found an entire webpage on the PSU I have which has the board I'm referring to right above the picture of the fan at http://terasan.info/dengen/no041/index.html

I think it says it's probably used for ground, too bad no one has a picture of it desoldered.

Ah, it's just a copper plate that goes over the PCB, not a PCB itself. It's probably also used as a heat sink. if it was just for grounding, then the two wires attached to it would just need to lead to the case.

Thanks c_hegge, you solved the mystery on that one. I always thought poly caps were all metal even on the sides which was why I thought it was a regular cap. Is there supposed to be a date stamp on these? I'm just concerned after 14 years of usage, it might be better to replace it. Is it possible to even get a replacement Sanyo OS-CON cap since I do see it on Ebay from someone selling a lot of 10 in the UK.

You could replace it, then, but don't use a regular wet electrolytic cap.

Speaking about life expectancy, I noticed the caps are all 3,000-10,000hrs but it seems I had my system on 24x7x365 since 2000 at least which would have been more than those hours, do they only fail in those amount of hours at 105C temps?

The lifetime rating is the endurance lifetime, which is how long it will stay in spec if run at its maximum rated temperature and ripple current. In real world conditions, it's going to last much, much longer.

As for caps, is United Chemi-con actually Japanese caps? Between United Chemi-con and Panasonic, which one actually makes more premium caps?

Yes, UCC caps are Japanese. Both UCC and Panasonic are very good manufacturers, although I personally prefer Panasonic, as I have found that they hold up better in Small Form Factor roasting oven PCs better than any of the others. UCC also have had problems with some of their ranges (notably, KZG and KZJ)

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Didn't know what that copper piece is called, it does have two holes at the upper and lower corner where the two screw standoffs from the chassis goes for screwing down the main PCB to the chassis with the copper plate sandwiched between them. The copper side of the copper plate touches the chassis.

I'll include a picture so it might illustrate it better as far as the main PCB is concerned.

The top red arrow still has the soldered wire on it which was soldered to the upper hole on the copper board. The green arrow is the negative (-) leg of the 16v 4700uF capacitor. Am I correct that the top red arrow and the green arrow is internally connected and the wire can basically be at the green arrow and it'll still do the exact same thing?

The lower red arrow is where the other hole on the copper board directly sits on top of. I found a broken wire with solder in the same box I put the copper board by itself so it was probably stuck to the copper board when I took it off. The blue arrow is the (-) leg of the 10v 4700uF capacitor. The other soldered joints in that area are untouched so it should be correct so not sure if connecting the negative side of two capacitors to a copper board as described above would do any harm. I accidentally bridged the area above the lower red arrow and will fix it when I get desoldering braid since I don't think the manual desoldering bulb or pump will help fix that problem.

Any suggested replacements from Digikey for the OS-CON cap? Also, does Sanyo still make caps or are they all Panasonic now as I know their famous rechargeable batteries are now under the Panasonic name, not sure about the capacitors.

Thanks for the clarifications on the hours and reliability.

As for caps, it seems like people complain on the motherboard forum about bad UCC caps way more often than Nichicon or Rubycon and many even replaced everything with Panasonic caps so for some reason, I thought UCC was Taiwanese until I saw the name was Nippon Chemi-con elsewhere.

[Behemot]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

I would never stick HN/HM into such old power supply. It has way too low ESR, that's motherboard-grade capacitor.

UCC is the US office isn't it? Though not all chemi-con caps come from Japan. I think they have one factory in Philippines or somewhere around and some co-ventures in Korea.

[Almighty1]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

Thanks dmill89, c_hegge, Behemot and anyone else that has helped! Ill go through the list of capacitors suggested and see what I can come up with. dmill89 did mention that HN/HM is too low ESA for a PSU while it's fine for a motherboard. Speaking about ESR, how does one know if it's too low for a PSU or not? After reading the forums, the lower ESR means it has more liquid inside so it will dry out faster.

UCC is the US office but is UCC and Nippon Chemi-Con the same product just sold under their different names in different countries or are they actually different products and quality?

[Behemot]

Re: Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Suppl

I am not sure about the structure exactly, but what is now NCC was the original Chemi-Con in Japan. They now have offices in differents parts of the world, like a daughter companies, possibly in Chemi-Con group Most of the caps are manufactured in Japan, only some in the other factory in Philippines. It is also possible they sell them under different brand from there, who knows…

Look into datasheet, generally for PSU lines like LXV, LXZ, KY, KYA, KYB, KZN, KZM, KZH, KZE are good. Some of the newer ones are a bit lower ESR but I think still within safe margins. But old ultra-low stock are too low, as you pointed out they have much lower lifetime and also all of them are EOL'd now with polymers being used instead.

If you need PSU-grade 3300 uF in D10, I have Samxon RS for 16 V and Chemi-Con KYA for 6,3 V. Custom KZN part for 16 V is being made with ESR so low it touches MB-grade caps, expected availability in december. However I do not have anything for D12,5 or D15 with even higher capacity, it is rarely used in ATX PSUs these days, D8/D10 is standard, so it is not interesting for me to stock these.