Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

[AntecRep]

SmartPowers, caps, RMA, and other models

The CompUSA by me closed its doors this last summer.

I admire the fervor I see here of people who want a high quality PSU.

Antec makes many models of PSU, and in the time I spent working in support I talked to many people who were upset that their PSU had failed. I also got to see the whole capacitor issue from the front row.

The SmartPowers were the quiet home-user model designed for people who turned on their computers for a few hours per day. The SmartPower was also the biggest selling line of PSU we ever had, so when there was an issue with a batch of caps that were good enough to pass QC, but only lasted about 6 months in the field everybody called support. For individuals, we offered advance replacement. If we were backordered on SmartPowers, we offered to replace with EarthWatts. Luckily for a lot of people, the problem 5VSB cap would sometimes make an annoying high-pitched whine. When they called in with that symptom, we could immediately set them up for a replacement and they never experienced any downtime.

Some people get upset when they get what they think is an automated reply to an RMA request. Sorry to hurt their feelings, but their ticket was looked at by a tech here in Fremont, CA, and simply determined to fit into the RMA category without problem. It's not automated, but it is "cut&paste". We are able to help more people more quickly that way. We have created a web-based RMA system that gets people their RMA numbers much faster than if each one was handled with an individual call. Sorry if we want to get your machine working sooner rather than later

For the tightest power regulation, TruePower provided +/-3% stability. The TP2-550 EPS was the PSU for our server cases until just recently.

For high quality & efficiency, we created the NeoPower. Modular cabling and multiple rails meant that this was designed for the enthusiast market. As a result, take a look at what badcaps users say about them .

Recently, the TruePower 2.0 has been superceded by the Trio and Quattro. Those are designed for the server and workstation. The Trio is not modular, but with three cleverly balanced rails will handle gaming rigs as well as the NeoPower. It has an additional feature the NeoPower does not, which is a pair of 'FanOnly' connectors. Based on the PSU temp and load, the fan speed is varied for maximum quiet or optimal cooling as needed. Those connectors are described in the manual as being for only one fan per connector. When they are overloaded with multiple fans, the circuit can be damaged. We still honor the warranty, even when this occurs because we understand the reality that even the most technically minded people (sometimes, especially those people! ) will miss the information.

The Quattro is a monster. And if anyone has any questions regarding the quality of components, or performance on the Quattro 850, don't listen to me. Check out the head-to-head, two PSU enter/one leaves review done by Hardware Canucks

Just as the SmartPower units have been discontinued, better models emerge. Such are product cycles.

[intp1000]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Mr ANTECREP,
I thank you for your continued interest in this forum.
It's very nice to see mfg. reps. represented.

As an aside, PrintPlanet.com has always invited reps. to represent their viewpoints. Those reps. who do so have learned to not BS the fourms; for they will soon be found out by the "in the trenches" people who use their products everyday.

I would ask you, although I may have misunderstude which PSU you were talking about, there are a lot of people who seem to be having a problem with your Neo HE PSU's, espically on ASUS motherboards (but not limited to them).
Are these the same as your NeoPower you mentioned in your post?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Mr ANTECREP,

I find it quite entertaining that Antec chooses paying Public Relations people to troll the internet in order to rebut well earned adverse comments about their products over putting more money and effort into improving QA.
(Or simply buying better components in the first place.)

Fortunately most technicians are not so gullible as to allow the pleasant sensation of having Corporate smoke blown up their ass to distract them from the truth as to the quality of a particular product.

I admire the fervor I see here of people who want a high quality PSU.

Then why don't you build them that way?

Lets see what it would COST to use quality capacitors in the first place.

Using as an example one of the two TP-550's on my work bench right now.

10 Fuhjyyu caps
(A brand widely known to be complete crap when used in PSU's. - Try google if you doubt that.)

4x 4700uF 10V 10mm*
2x 3300uF 16V 10mm*
2x 1000uF 10V 8mm
1x 470uF 25V 8mm
1 x 47uF 35v 8mm

The *
- You are stuck using 10mm Fuhjyyu or OST (OST is only marginally better that Fuhjyyu) in the 4700uF and 3300uF positions on the PCB because your engineers don't have (or are not at liberty to use) the COMMON SENSE of designing PCB's around the availability of QUALITY parts. You engineer yourself into a hole that you can't dig out of and FORCE yourself to use crap parts. *STUPID MISTAKE*
- Or is it? -
That is a mistake one would only expect to see from a new inexperienced company or a company that simply doesn't give a rats ass about the end users experience with the product.
(Antec is not new or inexperienced. - That speaks for itself.)

- It's REAL SIMPLE!
Leave room on the PCB for 12.5mm caps so you can use quality parts and then buy quality parts. - REAL SIMPLE!

Lets see what it would cost for these 10 caps if you used a quality brand.
I will be using prices in per 1000 piece boxes from internet-RETAIL type supplier [Digikey] in the US and US Dollars.
[You buy in bulk and presumably in larger quantities so this is OVER conservative in YOUR favor.]

4x 4700uF 10V 10mm*
- - Use 4700uF 10v UCC KZE #EKZE100ELL472MK35S 12.5x35mm
- - $0.22267@ x 4 = $0.90

2x 3300uF 16V 10mm*
- - Use 3300uF 16v UCC KZE #EKZE160ELL332MK35S 12.5x35mm
- - $0.21061@ x 2 = $0.43

2x 1000uF 10V 8mm
- - Use 1000uF 10v UCC KZE #EKZE100ELL102MH20D 8x20mm
- - $0.09053@ x 2 = $0.19

1x 470uF 25V 8mm
- - Use 470uF 25v UCC KZE #EKZE250ELL471MH20D 8x20mm
- - $0.08746 @ x 1 = $0.09

1 x 47uF 35v 6.3mm
- - Use 47uF 35v Nichicon PW #UPW1V470MED 6.3x11mm
- - $0.06560 @ x 1 = $0.07

Total cost of using quality caps in this PSU would be $1.68.

Presumably Fuhjyyu did not give you the other capacitors for free.
(Although they probably should be paying you to take them.)

The net effect on the overall cost would no doubt be LESS THAN ONE US DOLLAR.

There is ZERO EXCUSE for using crap capacitors in ANY PSU.
I don't care if it's only a $20 PSU.
There is NO acceptable excuse for using crap caps in ANY PSU.

Even people buying "economy" power supplies would prefer to spend an extra $1 to not have their system down, their motherboard damaged, their hard drive damaged, data corrupted, and their time wasted.

~~~~~~~~~~

With the way the Internet is now you CAN NOT get away with selling a shoddy product and patching it up with bogus claims and a slew of public relations nonsense like you could 10 years ago.
-
If the product is crap the truth will become known relatively quickly.
-
Suddenly dropping product lines and creating a new ones with the same old problems isn't going to fool intelligent people. What it does do is expand a history of creating faulty products. It goes from: "they had this one bad one" to "the last 5 models they made were crap" much more quickly that way.
-
This site has a relatively small membership of around 5,500 people. The thing is most of the members here are members in numerous other places which means their voices carry much further than you might think. For example I am senior (in the top 500 rated by knowledge level) on another IT technical related site with nearly 84,000 members.
-
Too many bad products results in a loss of confidence in your products and that results in loss of business.
In this day and age ONE bad product can do the same thing.
These losses will eventually out weigh your 'savings' in using cheap low quality parts and could put you out of business.
(Ask Soyo why they no longer manufacture motherboards.)
-
Further, you may have to answer to your faulty products by way of law suits.
Abit, MSI, and Soyo (probably others) have all been sued and lost specifically over using faulty capacitors in their products.
- Antec may be next.

~~~~~~~~~~

I'll address some of the smoke in your other comments in a later post.

~~~~~~~~~~

I have expressed my own personal opinion here. (And in all my posts.)
I am not in any way an official representative of badcaps.net

~~~~~~~~~~

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

For the tightest power regulation, TruePower provided +/-3% stability. The TP2-550 EPS was the PSU for our server cases until just recently.

~~~~~~~~

The Trio is not modular, but with three cleverly balanced rails..............

And the TP2-550 EPS might indeed perform that well if you hadn't chosen to use the lowest quality capacitors that you could possibly find anywhere in any market.

I have an EchoStar 580w that I paid something like $20 for that out performs, is MUCH more stable, and outlasted both the TP2-550 or TP2-550 EPS Antec PSU's that I bought.
The best of the two Antecs only lasted 4 months.
One of the TP2's damaged a motherboard beyond all repair.
[The TP2 literally blew a hole in the motherboards chipset when it failed.]

~~~

You advertised the TP2's as having two 12v rails but that is not the case.
The stickers on the side clearly state the OUTPUTS are separate 19 amps rails.

However, all the 12v outputs are connected internally by jumpers on the PCB.
All the 12v wires are connected to the same electrical point.
They are NOT separate and there is only ONE 12v rail on the output.
- I have close up photos of the PCB's if you doubt me.

[ This is blatant false advertising. ]
If you were not misrepresenting the product the label would state a single 12v output at 38 amps. (Assuming the amps in 2 x 19 amps is not a lie as well.)

Given that, I have doubts the TP3 actually has three 12v rails. I would not be particularly surprised if they have only one 12v output just as the TP2 does.

~~~

Personally I think having one high capacity output at 12v is a better design but that doesn't change the fact that you present the product as have separate 12v output rails and it does not.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

For high quality & efficiency, we created the NeoPower. Modular cabling and multiple rails meant that this was designed for the enthusiast market. As a result, take a look at what badcaps users say about them .

Instead lets take a look at what actual owners from a larger sample size say about your PSUs.

NeoPower

NeoPower 430 ATX12V --- 44% of 50 buyers rated it as Poor or Very Poor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103939

NeoPower 500 ATX12V --- 24% of 126 buyers rated it as Poor or Very Poor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103940

NeoPower 550 ATX12V 550W --- 28% of 283 buyers rated it as Poor or Very poor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103941

NeoPower 650 Blue ATX12V / EPS12V --- 29% of 17 buyers rated it as Very Poor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371010

Overall for NeoPower - 138 of 476 [ 29% ] rated it as POOR or VERY POOR.

~~~~

Quattro

Quattro TPQ-850 ATX12V / EPS12V --- 22% of 37 buyers rated it as Poor or Very Poor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371009

Quattro TPQ-1000 ATX12V / EPS12V --- 42% of 19 buyers rated it as Poor or Very Poor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371012

Overall for Quattro - 16 of 56 [ 29% ] rated it as POOR or VERY POOR.

~~~~

Is anyone perhaps interested in a raffle?

Whoever guesses closest to the actual date Antec goes out of business wins the pot.

.

[kc8adu]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

thats realy funny!
the echostar is the poster child for gutless wonder piece of shit power supply!
we shit can those on sight!
and btw i have already recapped some newer antec units with ost cap failures.
seems ost is still shit.

And the TP2-550 EPS might indeed perform that well if you hadn't chosen to use the lowest quality capacitors that you could possibly find anywhere in any market.

I have an EchoStar 580w that I paid something like $20 for that out performs, is MUCH more stable, and outlasted both the TP2-550 or TP2-550 EPS Antec PSU's that I bought.
The best of the two Antecs only lasted 4 months.


.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

I think in PSU`s it depends more on geral design, especially the thermal & noise management if a particular capacitor will last or not.

I think that is the message, we can learn form the intensive discussion of the problems here.

My personal opinion is, that the lower quality caps can`t sustain the usual temperatures in PSU`s in a controlled manner.
Thus quality branded caps are for me the poor mans sign for a reliable high quality PSU.
If a product is not suited for certain applications, then the manufacturer has to state this clearly (may be a sticker : "this PSU is not designed for daily usage").

Therefore i i do not recommend, encourage the use or buy PSu`s with marginal capacitor brands, unless recapping is a feasible option.
No marketing spin will change this hard learned lesson, as RMA procedures are always very unpleasant and are problematic especially for small integrator.

[MixMasta]

Re: SmartPowers, caps, RMA, and other models

The SmartPowers were the quiet home-user model designed for people who turned on their computers for a few hours per day.

AntecRep, please point us to the documentation that came with these power supply that indicated this. Oh wait, there isn't any! I guess we are all stupid for using your SmartPower and Trupower power suppies for more then a few hours a day (though I have many, many examples of failed units from people who didn't), because apparently thats all your high priced power supplies were designed for?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: SmartPowers, caps, RMA, and other models

gonzo0815, MixMasta

I was wondering exactly the same thing. I just hadn't got there yet.

The SmartPowers were the quiet home-user model designed for people who turned on their computers for a few hours per day.

#1: Where did you state in the advertising that this unit wasn't designed to handle more than a few hours a day use?

#2: WHY would anyone deliberately build such a weak power supply?

#3: This clearly shows that you HAVE NO CLUE about the needs in the market for one of your major products.
-
A person that uses a computer 'only a few hours a day' is very unlikely to be a person that is going to build their own computer. They will buy a computer from a builder. (Be it a small local builder or some major entity.)
-
A builder rarely has the slightest idea how long the end user is going to be using the computer. The builder will not know went it is built if the machine will be running one 1 hour a day or 24/7/365.**
If a competent builder, he (or she) is not going to knowing purchase a PSU that is only good for "a few hours a day". The risk of warranty returns, lost man-hours, and resulting lost profits would be far too high.

How convient that you didn't mention the PSU was only designed with a duty cycle of "a few hours a day" in the advertising. - If you had no one (certainly no PC tech) in their right mind would buy one and most of them would still be safely stored unused in your warehouse.



** That assuming it actually works for a whole 365 days, which is debatable.

.

[Krankshaft]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Well I took a peak in my Antec Sonata case which houses my personal e-mail server running Windows 2003.

The case included an Antec TP 2.0 so I peak behind the rear fan and I see that Antec replaced the 2 1000uf Fukyuus (that my other recapped supply had) with 2 Teapos and they were not bulged.

Teapos seem to be at home in PSUs and work well there. On mobos is another story.

However I looked a little to the right and what do I find they kept the Fukyuus as general purpose capacitors.

While they probably pose no threat there COME ON if a crappy capacitor manufacturer sullied my reputation I would wipe it clean off the board.

It seems Antec is still out to save a few cents.

I guess I'm recapping this one as well. All the GP Fukyuus will be replaced with Chemicon General Purpose KMG caps.

I will be taking this supply out of service soon to check the secondary capacitors I BETTER NOT FIND ANY FUKYUUS THERE.

I agree with you PC getting my 12.5 FCs in that 10mm space was a real pain in the ass.

I go as far to say that those small high value caps may have been the reason that they failed. A smaller cap requires the plates to be closer together which requires a good electrolyte to prevent the plates from arcing.

And who knows you may need to make some "rated life" compromosises by making them smaller too.

I have NEVER seen a 4700uf cap AT ANY WV at 10 milimeters in diameter whats the matter was Fukyuu the only manufacturer that would stoop low enough to make these subpar caps for you?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Besides Fuhjyyu TN and TM series the only other 4700uF 10mm I know of is made by OST in 6.3v in the RLX series.
-
They are all 10x30 mm.
-
Definitely a size that should fade away into non-existence.
.

[hardwareguy]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

If need be, I have been known to leave the leads long ans mount the cap up off the board a bit to make it fit! Of course, the leads get some heat shrink to prevent issues.

The 10mm 3300 and 4700 get tossed universally. I've never seen one older than two years old that was in good shape.

[AntecRep]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

PCBONEZ, saw you over on experts-exchange. Good post. You're certainly right about the cramped spaces inside a high-watt PSU.

As for the NeoHE (NeoPower) and ASUS motherboards, there was an issue all right. The incompatibility had to do with minimum loads and startup timing. The NeoHE PSU worked perfectly with other motherboards, which makes it somewhat simple. Our design fix in response to these motherboard problems was not to fix a 'defect' in our PSU. It was to adjust our reaction to a new way of handling load that the ASUS boards were using, and is very similar to those discussed in the article here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/news652.html You'll notice that the issue is discussed in detail, but Antec is hardly mentioned, since we were only one of four PSU manufacturers that had trouble with the ASUS boards.

Blew a hole in a motherboard? Hmmm. If something shorts on a hard drive or mobo (the two leading culprits in cases that we investigate) it is quite possible to take the power supply down with it. In roughly 80% of cases we investigate, it was not the PSU at fault. If we are contacted with such an issue, we would like to get that PSU to test. If it was our equipment's fault, even though we don't explicitly warrant for collateral damage, we will usually issue a check for the value of the damaged equipment. If we determine that there is a way in which our PSU can fail and cause downstream damage, we can improve the design. With all the over-current protection, over-voltage protection, short-circuit protection, thermal shutdown, and crowbar mode, it is incredibly difficult for things that go wrong inside the PSU to damage downstream components. Still, we get one or two a year, so we continue to investigate all claims.

If you've ever RMAd something to Antec, you know that you received back a brand-new box in the shrink-wrap. It's really a shame when users open a device that could be replaced under warranty. We don't, however, "disown" people who do that. The proud and technically competent people who wear the t-shirts that say, "I void warranties" have absolutely no right to complain when they decide to break that sticker. They are choosing to take ownership of the device, not being disowned by the mfr. You know how it works.

Thank you gonzo0815 for pointing out the importance of design. Many times, the type of design used will dramatically change the tolerance or capacity required of a downstream component. Change the design and the rating for a transistor can go from 900V to 450-500V. Better design can allow the use of smaller components without affecting the MTBF.

The SmartPower was designed to be reliable and provide a serviceable PSU for a reasonable price. The people who purchased it tended to be home users and system builders. It was also designed to be quiet. An interesting point about it is that many people thought they were defective immediately upon installation because the rear fan wasn't spinning. It wasn't supposed to! There were two fans, and the one on the inside of the case was running enough to keep it cool. If it reached a certain temperature, the outside fan would come on. It was described on the box. Covered in the manual. Paper inserts were added to the box. FAQs were put on the website. Many people just couldn't figure it out. Another reason the line was terminated.

PCBONEZ is not who we built the SmartPower for. What you're looking for is a whole new class of power supply designed with only high-end capacitors, low VF Schottky diodes, synchronous rectifiers, coolMOS components where possible, a pair of double-layer PCBs to allow for larger/more robust components and optimal airflow, an ultra-quiet PWM fan, resonant operation, interleaved PFC and PWM, and highly efficient DC to DC voltage regulator modules to power the +5V and +3.3V rails providing tighter voltage regulation and transient response times measured in microseconds. Maybe even that wouldn't do it. We'll see…

You're using NewEgg reviews to refute the opinions of badcaps forum users about the Neo? Whose opinions would you value more highly? And what about JonnyGuru? OklahomaWolf ? Do 'eggers' trump them too?

Also, did you read the reviews from the 16 people who didn't like the Quattro to see what they actually said? There's a common thread… Get back to me and then we'll go over that one.

[bgavin]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

One can debate until blue in the face.

Too many Fukyuus (pronounced: fukk yoo) cheap caps. I even get RMA units back with Fukyuus installed. Too many dead boards, too many dead, bulging, leaking Antec supplies. Too much warranty work, too many unhappy clients, too much time wasted on RMA bullshit. I can't even recap my Antecs because they use shitty, undersized crap-caps.

For me, the talking is done. Walking has replaced talking. I left Antec behind, and will NEVER come back. It will snow in Hell before I put another Antec in a client machine.

[AntecRep]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Then please, bgavin, feel free to continue

...using Sparkle 120mm PSU as replacements...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

AntecRep

WHY would anyone RMA to get the same crap that didn't work in the first place?
- Don't follow that line of thought.

Your PSU killed my motherboard and your solution is to give me another PSU that kills motherboards?
- OH GOODIE!!!
- What Luck!!

Your claims in here about you customer serve practices do not follow with comments about same posted in dozens of places about the web.
- The general consciouses is it is slow or non-existent and the replacement is as bad as the original.
- On this I will give you that old posts don't go away so maybe you are in fact working on that.
- I will see if 2008 gives better reviews.
- I will not however try an Antec power supply again FOR YEARS and then only maybe.

>> Blew a hole in a motherboard? Hmmm. If something shorts on a hard drive or <<

How typical of corporate nonsense. - Blaim it on someone else.
[ Been taking lessons from Asus?? ]

Bad PSU's blowing out chipsets is well know among people that actually work on computers. Very well known. Ask Emachines. They were sued by Class Action over a PSU they used that had a habit of blowing out Chipsets on motherboards.
HP, Gateway, and Dell may have been sued also. They used the same one.

~~~

In my case:

Known good motherboard. Had just tested several CPU's with it.
Only a floppy drive attached. [Also known good FDD.]
Decided to check the voltages on the new Antec PSU before I put it in my server.

After 20-30 seconds I smelled that smell from the Antec and the system crashed.
(I was in the BIOS screens, not like under a load.)
Set the Antec aside.
Put in a -MUCH BETTER THAN ANTEC- 9 year old Tiger Pro 350w PSU.
No boot.
Noted hole in motherboard chipset.
Noted blown shit brand caps in Antec PSU and the strong smell of fried electronics.
-
Conclusion. The TP2-550 EPS is CRAP.
-
Put different same model motherboard in with the Tiger Pro and everything else that was there with the Antec.
-
No problems.

~~ Conclusion confirmed.

And for reference I've been an electronics tech since 1981 and in IT since 1999.
I am not some idget hobbyist that doesn't know what he's doing.

.

Newegg reviews only confirm my own conclusions about your PSUs which I have come to by:
DIRECT OBSERVATION.

I don't look at who wrote what or specific comments because I don't know the authors actual skill levels.

The NUMBERS of good vs bad are all that mean anything because the skill levels of the posters will average out as the number of posts goes up.

29% of 532 Antec buyers reported POOR or VERY POOR.

Almost 1/3 of people that buy your products are unsatisfied with them.
That's what matters.

.

[kc8adu]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

i still see a ton of bad antec psu's.
many less than 6 months old.
every one of them packed with blown fuhjjyu caps.
and several destroyed boards due to them.
not on my shops buy list.
my clients are willing to pay for good stuff to avoid costly downtime.
while i agree you need to take newegg reviews with a grain of salt they still show a pattern failure thats been around too long.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

PCBONEZ is not who we built the SmartPower for.

If he is working in IT, i suppose he has to choose components for other people, thus certainly he has to deal with economic standard PSU`s.
And if the Smart Power was not intended for normal duty, it is left to the manufacturers responsibility to point this out in a manner that at least a qualified technician can understand it.

What you're looking for is a whole new class of power supply designed with only high-end capacitors, low VF Schottky diodes, synchronous rectifiers, coolMOS components where possible, a pair of double-layer PCBs to allow for larger/more robust components and optimal airflow, an ultra-quiet PWM fan, resonant operation, interleaved PFC and PWM, and highly efficient DC to DC voltage regulator modules to power the +5V and +3.3V rails providing tighter voltage regulation and transient response times measured in microseconds.

Well i think for the lower end PSu`s durable caps from reputable brand would be a start there ;-), which should even fit into this categories budget.
From my point of view, there is no way to excuse or deny the capacitor issue within the Smart Power series and there is no way that those particular capacitors will survive the marginal cooling within this PSU`s for any acceptable lifetime.

For the higher end PSu`s with a price tag near 100$ i think the marked options would be a fair trade and should easily be covered within the budget. The DC -DC modules are not necessarily needed, as long as the regulation of the rails could be maintained regardless of the load characteristic or if the intended load characteristic is stated on the label or data sheet.

The components are very cheap, this is certainly no the problem. I am not that naive, that i think this will happen soon, unless a new company will challenge the retail market or Intel will specify this.
As long as a company can sell the same old shit with marginal improvements for a lot of money and a huge gain they will continue to do so.

The normal review of a PSU is from it`s nature a short therm test.
So even the elaborated PSu test can not say anything about the long therm reliability.
In the fast paced IT SOHO market, it is therefore easy, to get away with cheap components and low endurance.

[bgavin]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Then please, bgavin, feel free to continue

AntecRep, you have a lot to learn about PR.

First, it is bad enough you come here and try Corporate Spin with a group of techs that can see through bullshit in a heart beat.

Worse, a PR person should NEVER disparage a competitor's product. Doing so puts egg on your face that is very hard to remove.

Unlike Antec PSUs, the Sparkle model I started using does not come with a board full of Fuhkyyu caps. The lack of Fuhkyyu caps is more than sufficient reason for me to give them a try. I own a service company, and I won't ever come back to Antec. Spin or no spin.

[acstech]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Having had many Antec SP and TP units over the years, here's what I have to say about 'em (and most if not all you guys already know this):

1. They work very well when new.
2. Good voltage regulation, etc for about the first year.
3. After about a year, depending on duty cycle, some of the Fuhjyyu caps start to bulge.
4. A little more time and they start to leak.
5. Then interesting, annoying, and sometimes harmful things start happening to the computer.
6. They can usually be brought back to life, and perform quite well, with a recap job using quality capacitors.

From what I hear Antec uses better capacitors in their newer units. However, I'm done with 'em. I run my own computer sales and service business, and I cannot afford to go fix EVERY PSU I've sold in new computers in a year and a half. Been there, done that. Fortunately capacitors were relatively cheap, I keep good records, my evenings were free for soldering time, and my customers were grateful that I identified problems and fixed things before they had problems or lost data. So I was able to turn a potential nightmare into good customer relations.

I'm one of those people that holds a grudge. Call it a character flaw if you will. If I've been screwed over by one manufacturer, it will be a very long time before I go back. I have gone to Seasonic and FSP, and found them to be excellent in quality. It will be a very long time before I go back to Antec.