Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

[dmill89]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

I have - a few times, and yes, they were from bad caps. I've seen a few seasonic Earthwatts get bad OSTs and a Delta made EA-500D with bad LTECs.

I've seen them periodically throughout the web but have never had one fail personally. I might just be lucky, but the failures that do occur seem to be at a much lower rate than the old CWT units with Fuhjyyu caps. I can't say there is any mainstream brand that I have never heard of a failure from especially in budget models, but this is not much of an issue so long as the failure rate is low over the average life of the PSU and there is sufficient protection circuitry to prevent damage to other components when the PSU does fail.

As I always say, using bad caps saves 50c in the cost. If they really need that extra 50c, I'll happily pay 50c more for the product. Therefore, bad caps should NEVER under any circumstances be used in any device, end of story.

I'll definitely agree with that. It has appeared to have gotten better. 10 years ago even top of the line PSUs often came with mediocre caps and low-end models came with absolute junk, now most high end PSUs from decent manufactures have Japanese caps and entry to mid level models from decent manufactures have at least mediocre Taiwanese caps (Teapo, OST, Ltec, etc.), while these may not be the most reliable they are much better than the Fuhjyyu, Elite, G-luxon, CapXon, etc. caps that were once common in such units (there are exceptions such as FSP still using CapXons in allot of their units).

[c_hegge]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

I pretty much agree with that. I've never had a failure of a single non-CWT antec and I have had several.

I have - a few times, and yes, they were from bad caps. I've seen a few seasonic Earthwatts get bad OSTs and a Delta made EA-500D with bad LTECs.

As I always say, using bad caps saves 50c in the cost. If they really need that extra 50c, I'll happily pay 50c more for the product. Therefore, bad caps should NEVER under any circumstances be used in any device, end of story.

[999999999]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Like I said, I am 2000 kilometers away from home, and won't be back for 7 weeks. Even sshing into my pc and shutting it down wont make me safe, because, for example, my brother's SmartPower blew when it was sitting on the floor with no load...

Personally, I have a neighbor I trust that I leave a door key with if I'll be away for a while in case something happens and access inside is needed, or to water plants, feed a pet, etc. If I had your concern I could just call and ask them to unplug my PC.

I don't mean to suggest this resolves the topic being discussed, only that having people you trust know you're away and giving them access can have its benefits.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Just remember that this is a 4-5 year old thread. One would hope that Antec learned something from this F-Up.

Keep in mind, too, that when a mfr - Antec, Dell, Apple, etc. - sell a semi-custom P/S built by a "real" P/S mfr, the company buying the P/S dictated (directly or indirectly) the quality of key components used. Companies like Apple, HP or Cisco will literally specify specific cap vendors (e.g. UCC, Nichicon, etc.). OTOH, if Antec paid a super low price, that forced on the P/S mfr a choice between turning down the business or using caps of less certain (or lesser) reliability. Maybe the P/S mfr should have turned down the business, IF they knew the caps could be a problem, but owners/stockholders would not be satisfied with "could be a problem" ... they would demand certainty or the decision-makers' heads.

[dmill89]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

I've actually had good experiences with using Antec-branded power supplies, apart from the Fuhjyyu-laden CWT built units. Antec's High Current Gamer and High Current Pro lines of power supplies come with all Japanese capacitors (my HCG-400 is loaded with UCC caps), which is a step in the right direction.

I pretty much agree with that. I've never had a failure of a single non-CWT antec and I have had several. My main rig currently has a 850w True-Power Quattro which is an Enhance built unit. It does have Teapos on the secondary but they haven't caused any issues so far, it has been an extremely reliable and stable PSU. My HTPC now has an EarthWatts (SeaSonic built) EA430 that came out of an old server in which it ran 24/7 for 5 years. I preemptively recapped it, although all of the OSTs on the secondary were still good. Even the CWT units were mostly good aside from the Fuhjyyu caps, I have an SP350 in my test/experimental system, although this SP350 has had all the caps except the ones on the fan controller replaced with Panasonic(the primary filter caps), UCC(Most caps on the secondary), Rubycon, and Samxon (the two 6.3v 3300uf caps replaced with 3300uf 16v RS); I also put a 2200 ohm resistor in parallel with the thermal resistor so both fans run at a low( ~1000-1500) rpm all the time and then speed up when it gets warmer rather than only the inner fan running until it gets hot. I've even used several of the FSP built Antec Basiq PSUs in low end systems I've built for people (mostly friends/family) and have yet to have one fail even though they have CapXons, although I wouldn't recommend these for anything but a lightly used entry level system which is what they're really designed for anyway.

[Newbie2]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

I've actually had good experiences with using Antec-branded power supplies, apart from the Fuhjyyu-laden CWT built units. Antec's High Current Gamer and High Current Pro lines of power supplies come with all Japanese capacitors (my HCG-400 is loaded with UCC caps), which is a step in the right direction.

[tom66]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

For (a very simplistic) example, let's imagine that every power supply manufacturer had a defective percentage of 2%. Manufacturer A has 100,000 units in the field, which means the defective population is 2,000 units - and let's further suppose that only 50% of people are willing & able to complain about their problems with the product on message boards. Manufacturer B has 10,000 units in the field, giving it a defective population of just 200 units. 50% griping means that only 100 complaints are being aired vs Manufacturer A's 1,000. That would give the impression that Manufacturer A's products are complete crap versus B, wouldn't it? I mean, one thousand people have had problems with Manufacturer A's products!

If you failure rate was just 2% it would only add about 2% to the cost of the power supply to include a long warranty, 3 years -minimum-, plus a connected equipment warranty to at least £1,000.

So why don't you?

Bad Fujykuu(sp?) caps can kill good motherboard caps as the ripple is now going to the motherboard caps. So it won't just kill the PSU it might damage your other hardware. Nice!

I wonder how many motherboards have been killed by Antecs? A friend of mine gave me a faulty Antec PSU. Needless to say, it was full of caps that had bulged and puked all over the board. And I take apart a cheap PSU and I see the same. So that tells me all I need to know about Antec.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Bad experience with my Antec SmartPower 2.0 500W PSU, which was purchased on December 26, 2005.
The rear fan never comes on (or work correctly) even with high temps.


I noticed whining when the PC's off one night. But seems to stop when it's on.

Then in November, 2011, I found the little Fuhjyyu cap, between the heatsinks, bulging!

[TimeBomb]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

BTW, one bad fire for every 10000 faulty power supplies - is probably underestimating the problem. Lots of people leave their computers on overnight, and won't be awake and ready to put out the fires these things start. Electrical faults in appliances ARE a common cause of domestic fires. And here we have... Antec... which is likely causing many more than its fair share due to penny-pinching and negligence.

[TimeBomb]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Minor mistake:

Just above I said: "So lets say JUST 2% of Antec's 2 million power supplies each year were faulty. Thats 100,000 bad power supplies... That means Antec are burning down 4 houses every per year."

Minor error there - caused by the fact that I initially suggested 5%, which would be 100,000 faulty power supplies, and 10 houses per year. Then changed to 2% instead, and 4 houses... But forgot to lower the 100,000 to 40,000.

So it should've read 2% of 2 million is 40,000 faulty power supplies, which, as i correctly stated, (at 10000 to one) would be 4 houses burned down per year.

[TimeBomb]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

If you get bit and you die then you get a full refund!

Not quite
Its more like, if you get bit, and you die, then we'll send your Next of Kin another free bottle of snake attracting and aggression-enhancing pheromones

This AntecRep guy just doesn't seem to get it, does he. In my experience, 2 out of 3 is not a small percentage. if I could take a look at my truepower, i'd probably find it is 3 out of 3 with bad caps. And, by the sounds of it, this appalling ratio is quite typical of the Antec power supplies that were made before the new Earthwatts came out.

AntecRep doesn't seem to understand the situation his company has put me in either. So I will elaborate for him:

Like I said, I am 2000 kilometers away from home, and won't be back for 7 weeks. Even sshing into my pc and shutting it down wont make me safe, because, for example, my brother's SmartPower blew when it was sitting on the floor with no load...

If I look at the fine print in my home/contents insurance, there will be a clause something like this one which I found on the net:

The Policy shall be avoided with respect to any item thereof in regard to which there be any alteration after the commencement of this insurance- ... whereby the nature of the occupation of or other circumstances affecting the building insured or containing the insured property be changed in such a way as to increase the risk of destruction or damage; or

Some clause like that in my insurance contract, is bound to mean that if I am aware it is likely one of my electrical devices is faulty and is increasing the risk of destruction or damage to the property - then my insurance won't cover it if that item then causes said destruction. Unless I tell them about the device in advance. So, if I ring my insurance company and tell them i have a faulty power supply in my pc which poses an increased risk of fire... what does MrAntecRep think they will do? They will quite simply cancel my policy, or, at the very least, make it quite clear they will not cover any damage which it turns out may have been caused by said device.

Further, in addition to the above. If my burning house causes injury or death or even just damage to my neighbours house, I will probably be liable for all of that if I have negligently allowed the Antec PS, which I now know to be dangerous - to stay in use, and start a fire.

I am 2000 kilometers away from home. I can't replace the device and send it back to Antec. So I've suggested Antec send an engineer into my house to replace the device.

Sounds fair to me.

Only one part of a computer has any real potential to be dangerous in any way. The power supply. So smart people are willing to pay for a quality supply which it is reasonable to expect will be safe. But all Antec has done is profiteer from that, by taking people's money. Antec has been utterly NEGLIGENT in failing to build power supplies that are safe. I'm not saying 100% safe. Everyone knows there will always be some risk in most things, I mean just safe, in the sense of what a reasonable and well-informed person would consider safe enough.

So lets say JUST 2% of Antec's 2 million power supplies each year were faulty. Thats 100,000 bad power supplies. Then say the odds against a bad supply actually catching fire and burning someone's house down, is 10,000 to one. That means Antec are burning down 4 houses every per year. Not too bad? Well, its not too great either. If every electrical appliance was that dangerous we wouldn't need street lights because most streets would be lit up by burning houses.

Now. Suppose 50% of Antec's power supplies were faulty - and that actually looks like a more realistic estimate in recent years - though hopefully Antec have learned, and it will be much lower from now on. That means, for a few years there, Antec were burning down 100 or so houses per year.

Antec - you are a menace. You may choose to run those risks with people's lives, property, and memories. But I don't. Now it has come to my attention that Antec has given me and my family a free game of russian-roulette with the over-priced and mis-represented Antec PS i bought... I WANT OUT.

Perhaps my smart-alec tone has given Mr AntecRep the idea that I'm joking around, but I'm not.

I have seen one of these Smart Power supplies explode right in front of me - and now I find it was not an isolated incident, it is a common problem. And other Antec power supplies while not being so prone to exploding... are a fire hazard.

I WANT MY ANTEC POWER SUPPLY OUT OF MY HOUSE AND I EXPECT ANTEC TO GROW SOME BALLS AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND GET THE THING OUT.

I have lodged a support request with Antec in Australia. We'll see how they deal with it.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Just to clarify what just occured here:

TimeBomb asked Antec what they are going to do if their faulty power supply burns his house down.

Antec's response was: If you RMA, we will send you a new power supply.

~~~

That's like snake bite spray with a lifetime guarantee.

If you spray it on a snake bite won't kill you.

If you get bit and you die then you get a full refund!

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Antec doesn't actually manufacture PSUs, they contract that out to OEM builders and slap their own sticker on it,,,
so "caps supplied to us" is a blatant lie in the first place.

The fact that they don't build them is a little truth they don't want known -so bad- that they (fairly recently) went out and acquired their own UL number to put on the Antec sticker that they slap on the side of these OEM built units.
- They don't build them but they want people to think they do.

A SP or TP that lasted over a year must have been very lightly loaded.
There are a huge number of fails in the 3 to 9 month old range.
- Just use google. You will see.

.

[kc8adu]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

i can believe antec sells 2 million units a year.
i see a ton of them come in here.
and unless brand new they all have blown fuhkkyu caps.
thats right every one thats more than a few month old!
we recap the antecs since they are ok other than bad caps and sometimes fans.not the best but acceptable.
strangely enough a recapped bestec is cleaner and better regulated!

[MultiMan]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

We understand there were issues with some of the caps supplied to us for the 5VSB circuit but all of the affected units have hopefully been replaced by now.

You understood wrong. Strange how you, as the manufacturer, have inaccurate information about the problems.

I have droves of failed SP and it's the caps on 12V that have failed, giving out massive amounts of ripple. The PSU runs, but the connected equipment won't, due to being incapacitated by Antec Ripple (tm?).

Come to think of it, every Antec SP or TP I have opened with more than a year or two of use have had bulged caps somewhere.

[Bookworm]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

I have six dead power supplies lying around my desk.

I don't expect much better out of Antec anymore.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

"" We sell almost 2 million PSUs per year. ""
-- Good to know.

From what I've seen that means 1.5 million dead Antecs a year and us re-cappers are gonna be in business fixing your mistakes for a loooong time to come.

~ Thanks!

.

[acstech]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Again with the warranty. I suppose that warranty doesn't replace the other parts your PSU took out, does it? UPS manufacturers have a connected equipment warranty; perhaps a quality power supply should be the same?

I sold several of these things (SP350's) years ago with Solution Series cases. Every ****** one of them bulged the Fuhjyyu caps. Not only the 5vsb caps either. I've seen a couple that had every Fuhjyyu output cap bulged and / or leaking. Some of the PSU's failed. None of them went back for RMA. Most got recapped or replaced.

Now seriously, sending an RMA for these things just doesn't make sense to me. It's just not worth it. When you figure in shipping costs, and my time, all for a $30 power supply, it is a losing proposition. That is why you don't see many RMA's on these things. By the time we've paid shipping, we're at half the cost of a new FSP unit! Figure in my time driving down to the UPS store, and it's a no brainer.

[AntecRep]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

We sell almost 2 million PSUs per year. The people who experience failures may believe that there are a lot of defective units. Despite the apparent quantity, it is a tiny percentage. As for the SmartPower, I hope you got it replaced under warranty. We understand there were issues with some of the caps supplied to us for the 5VSB circuit but all of the affected units have hopefully been replaced by now. If an SP is exhibiting one of the following symptoms:
1. high pitched noise
2. trouble starting
3. won't come out of standby
and a different PSU works, then you can get it replaced under warranty with an Earthwatts of the same or slightly higher wattage. Note that your store receipt is no longer required for warranty service if your PSU was manufactured (serial # is sufficient) within the warranty period.

You can click for detailed warranty info

[TimeBomb]

Re: Yet another victim of Antec! Q about cap replacement or RMA

Well Well Well... hellooooo Mr AntecRep:
"The SmartPowers were the quiet home-user model designed for people who turned on their computers for a few hours per day."

As others have stated, this information should have been prominently displayed in all advertising and product specifications. The contempt that this company has shown for its customers is breathtaking...

My brother had one of those Antec "Smart"powers in a Sonata case. One day he smelled the delicious smell of roasted capacitor death. He didn't know what it was, I told him to turn his pc off ASAP. Got him to look at the mobo, no bad looking caps, so, I suspected the power supply. Came down with a replacement, and we pulled out the Smartpower. Stuck it on his wooden floor and plugged it in. And watched.

30 seconds later, the cap(s) inside exploded/shorted with such force they lit up the floor in a 2 meter radius.
--------------------

I put it down as a one off. A rare event. An unlucky fluke. It is now a year and a half later... and another friend has had an Antec PS die after 9 months... after purchasing it on my recommendations... It has been replaced with an Earthwatts. That's two out of 3 Antec power supplies that I have been associated with - dying in their infancy. The third Antec PS, which hasn't died yet, is mine.

That seemed a bad ratio to me, so I have found this thread when Googling the issue.

So my question for Mr AntecRep is this:

I am now in Cairns, 2000 kilometers (1300 miles) from home. I will not be returning for another 7 weeks. I have left my computer on, at home. So I could ssh in, and do things on it. Its running an Antec TruePower 2. Maybe a year and a half old. Maybe 2.

In the interests of my peace of mind Mr AntecRep, I'd like your company to provide a nice written assurance - that if my house burns down, and the investigators conclude there is any possibility it was caused by the Antec PS in my pc - that Antec will cover the costs in full. That will include costs of all damage to the house, to my possessions, and, lets say, another $20,000 for the trauma and loss of personal items like photos and so on which cannot be replaced.

If Antec has no confidence in it's products, and won't provide that assurance, I'll be willing to provide a set of keys, and Antec can send an engineer to my house to replace the power supply with a new model with good caps.

Your choice Antec.

I won't hesitate to sue your company if it does nothing and my house burns down. Send me a PM and we can get something arranged.