The PSU FAQ

[jonnyGURU]

Re: The PSU FAQ

PS. I've never heard of any Ultra-branded units being Leadmax/Powmax's in disguise.

Chris was responding to JediYoda's quote of some misinformation found somewhere on the Interweb.

Re-reading his post, though... I think he's being sarcastic and actually pointing out that there is a plethora of misinformation out there.

For example: PC Power and Cooling == FSP. That would be incorrect. Before FSP bought Sparkle, Original Silencer units were made by Sparkle. Although Sparkle is now owned by FSP, you can not automatically assume Sparkle == FSP unless that Sparkle has an FSP part number.

JediYoda: Please link to said "short list" so the person that wrote it can be bitchslapped.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Although Sparkle is now owned by FSP, you can not automatically assume Sparkle == FSP unless that Sparkle has an FSP part number.

Are there any Sparkles that aren't FSP designs? The Fortron brand PSUs that I have, none over 400W, all have "SPI", for Sparkle Power International, printed on their transformers.

[jonnyGURU]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Yeah. And there's FSP's that aren't FSP's! (AX series)

[willawake]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Switching-Mode Power Supply Design
http://www.smpstech.com/

[parttimebill]

Re: The PSU FAQ

... sorry if that last one is in the wrong forum.. mea culpa...mea culpa...billl

[larrymoencurly]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Yeah. And there's FSP's that aren't FSP's! (AX series)

Who makes them for FSP? Or are you editorializing about the quality?

[jonnyGURU]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Whoa! Four month old quote there...

I was editorializing on the quality. Although, there is at least three FSP/SPI factories putting out varying quality, so I suppose it the newest factory is the one putting out the cheapest quality, then technically you could say, "it's not really FSP's!"

[SonicSteve]

Re: The PSU FAQ

I'm not I'm a bit off topic here, but..
Can anyone tell me what kind of quality Ultra is? They're priced quite high, they are heavy, but... are they good?

[jonnyGURU]

Re: The PSU FAQ

I'm not I'm a bit off topic here, but..
Can anyone tell me what kind of quality Ultra is? They're priced quite high, they are heavy, but... are they good?

Ultra what?

If it's "heavy" it's not a V-Series, that's for sure.

Anyhoo... it really depends on the model.

I can't get myself to recommend any V-Series below the 600W. The X-Finity is fine, and the new X-Pro and X-Finity 800W are actually based on server quality units.

They're expensive? Compared to what? Powmax? Yeah... well... that should go without saying.

[tazwegion]

Re: The PSU FAQ

I encountered yet another brand not mentioned in the PSU registery, namely a Honli 480w, the company seems to primarily be operating off an AU site

http://www.honli.com.au/

[grss1982]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Anyone ever heard or tried of GTR? No idea if its good or bad though. :-|

Heard about them through Australian reviews of some of their products:

http://www.dansdata.com/quickshot015.htm

http://www.dansdata.com/quickshot016.htm

http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=254901

http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/techreviews/?p=140

[Gianni]

Re: The PSU FAQ

3 days ago another friends had problem with his PC: the system HD suddenly died.
I was not afraid because I did recovery disk so I thought it would have been easy to fix everything with a new HD... but I was completely wrong!
I'm sitting here trying to recover his files on the second HD

The problem was not only the first HD but the PSU (Deer 300W) with some bulged caps and the system crashed when I was resizing one partion .
Today I have bought a new PSU and I hope it is a good one, at least better than Chinese anonymous PSU.

I wrote here to ask if someone knows this brand

http://www.tecnoware.com/uk/prodottisf.asp?idf=41

because I have not found serious review or info.

I have bought FAL550FS for 41€ http://www.tecnoware.com/uk/dettaglio.asp?idf=41&ids=12

The mobo QDI Platinix 2E V2.0 seems ok, the caps are from good brand.

Ciao
Gianni

[i4004]

Re: The PSU FAQ

well the from the outside it seems ok, but only pics from the inside tell the whole story.
so if opening it won't break warranty seal, open it and take some pics.

or wait for zandrax to return from his vacation(presuming he knows about itlaian stuff), he should be here soon...

i'm pretty sure it's better than 'Chinese anonymous PSU.' which cost about 10€.
it seems to have warranty that covers anything connected up to 500 000€.
chinese cheap makers just don't do that...hehe...

[zandrax]

Re: The PSU FAQ

i'm pretty sure it's better than 'Chinese anonymous PSU.' which cost about 10€.
it seems to have warranty that covers anything connected up to 500 000€.
chinese cheap makers just don't do that...hehe...

Sorry i4004, here cheap "gutless wonders", as KC8 refers to, start from about 20 euro at retail prices; if you're a vendor you may find deals such as "200 PSUs for 250 euro", common people don't.
Anyway I foud the Tecnoware FAL550FS specs:
- ATX 1.3 (old design?);
- 82% efficiency (but it doesn't state anything else: kind of pfc employed, how efficiency is calculated and so on);
- overvoltage, overcurrent and short circuit protection (better than nothing);
- only one Sata connector (so old design, I guess);
- weight: 1.5 kgs (<ironic>so we have a new lightweight champion! 550W for 1.5 kgs is an astounding power/weight ratio.</ironic> Given the low price, too low for good Active pfc, and the low weight, I suppose it's pfc-less: passive pfc coils weight about 200-300 grams and LC Power, that employs them, weight at least 2 kgs. Yeah, I know pfc-less psus aren't allowed to be sold in EC but they're here anyway, out of law.);
- currents: 28 A at 3.3 V, 38 A at 5 V, 26 A at 12 V. No combined values.

Despite the 500000 euro warranty, I think it's average chinese productions, such as Allied ones, but under an italian brand: no "Made in Italy", I'm sure. It's marginally better than Deers but it's inferior to similar priced LC Power PSUs.

I continue later.

Zandrax

[zandrax]

Re: The PSU FAQ

@ Gianni: I suggest you to buy a decent psu, the Tecnoware is only marginally better than the old Deer and it's IMHO overpriced. You've three choices:
- buy a Corsair VX450: it's stable, correctly priced (65-70 euro), active pfc, good design and caps. It's efficiency is very good, around 80%, though not as excellent as in more recent products and it can power any recent computer except for high end SLI/Crossfire configurations: Jonnyguru reviewed it a year ago. There are alternatives such as Enermax Modu 82+, Seasonic S12, Antecs etc but they cost more: the Corsair is the bung for the buck;
- buy some similar priced but well known products: LC Power, Fortron, some old Enermax gear. Most of times they employ passive pfc, efficiency is around 70-75% and caps are average ones, like Teapos. I don't like much LC Power because they're overrated (the 550W is more likely a 350-400 one), but I'm told they work and shutdown themselves without harming your computer;
- buy used, high quality psus: on ebay.it a vendor sells some used Newton Power psus at an attractive price. I bought mine by him: there are pics in the PSU Build quality pictorial thread.

Zandrax

[Gianni]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Thanks zandrax for your detailed answer.

Next time I buy a PSU I will follow your suggestion.

This time I was in a hurry, my friend was leaving for vacation and he wanted the PC ready ASAP so I had non time to collect info; when in the shop they gave me an anonymous PSU I asked for something better and the only one available was Tecnoware.
By the way, few days ago I recapped an old Tecnoware FAL300 and I saw it was very similar if not identical to a Deer (PCB, IC...) but he had less caps and inductances .

I repair PC just for hobby it is not my job so I have not a big experience and knowledge about MOBO, PSU etc... but since I joined this forum I'm learning a lot about all this stuff.
Most of the time I repair friend's PC, TV and all kind of electronic devices ready for trash or without warranty ; you know, friends satisfied talk about me to other people so in the last period I'm receiving a lot of request and my hobby is becoming a second job.
I have cooperated for 6 years with a friend who run a computer shop, but he never repaired a MOBO or opened a PSU because most of people wants cheap PC and because to repair/recap a MOBO/PSU it is more difficult than to sell a new one. Moreover you need some skill to solder-change components and you need the right tools; I think there are not so many places where you can find such kind of services and I really don't know how much they can ask to recap a MOBO, probably it costs more than buy a new one.

Ciao
Gianni

[zandrax]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Thanks zandrax for your detailed answer.

Next time I buy a PSU I will follow your suggestion.

This time I was in a hurry, my friend was leaving for vacation and he wanted the PC ready ASAP so I had non time to collect info; when in the shop they gave me an anonymous PSU I asked for something better and the only one available was Tecnoware.

Better looking for another shop: most ones have only the low (bad, cheap and scary psus) and the high end (say 600+W Enermax/Seasonic/PC Power & Cooling with modular cables, neon lights and expensive prices), I know, but some others sell decent one at a right price. Last choice: buy online.

By the way, few days ago I recapped an old Tecnoware FAL300 and I saw it was very similar if not identical to a Deer (PCB, IC...) but he had less caps and inductances .

Don't judge on a single unit: Tecnoware has at least two psu series, the "basic" noname products you bought and the X-Typhoon series which is heavier, with passive pfc, some not essential niceties (blue paint, modular cables, leds ...) and resembling the look of some Fortron units. Of course the latter is better (at least is law compliant ) but is more expensive: the 550W model costs about 65 euro.
So Tecnoware is a reseller like Thermaltake: some series are quite good (e.g. Thoughpower), others average to better-change-brand grade (Purepower, TR, TR2) and quality varies a lot among single models. I agree this policy may be deceiving for customers (you can't trust a brand), but it isn't illegal.

I repair PC just for hobby it is not my job so I have not a big experience and knowledge about MOBO, PSU etc... but since I joined this forum I'm learning a lot about all this stuff.
Most of the time I repair friend's PC, TV and all kind of electronic devices ready for trash or without warranty ; you know, friends satisfied talk about me to other people so in the last period I'm receiving a lot of request and my hobby is becoming a second job.

So you damn the day you got your first computer: since then you've become the free help desk for every friend
I joke, this is common: try balancing your job, your hobby and your free time before driving yourself mad. E.g. dedicate only N hours a day to pc repairs, tell your friends they have to wait a couple of days and so on.

I have cooperated for 6 years with a friend who run a computer shop, but he never repaired a MOBO or opened a PSU because most of people wants cheap PC and because to repair/recap a MOBO/PSU it is more difficult than to sell a new one. Moreover you need some skill to solder-change components and you need the right tools; I think there are not so many places where you can find such kind of services and I really don't know how much they can ask to recap a MOBO, probably it costs more than buy a new one.

You got the point: nowadays computers are a commodity, like TV sets or mobile phones. If it's out of warranty and it doesn't work, any technician will charge a lot for its repair: the charge is fair, because repairing is a time consuming activity, but often is equal or greather than the value of repaired item so most people will think twice before doing it.
Desktop motherboards are old when they're 6 months old and they costs up to 30 euro when out of warranty, so nobody will repair them unless it can be done for few bucks; server boards, OTOH, can be repaired with proficiency because a new board means a complete os reinstallation most of times and boards are expensive: it's cost-effective to have them repaired than build a new server from scratch.
PSUs are too time intensive: you've to open the box, locate the broken/burnt parts and replace them. This involves desoldering some if not all internal cables (the colorful spaghetti mess ), desoldering capacitors and have spare parts handy (psu caps usually have a not-standard diameter, 10 mm vs 12.5, so you have hard time in getting the right substitutes); moreover this makes sense when the psu is overall good (design, components, power) and only a few components are badly chosen: e.g. Antecs up to 2007, good design but doomed Fuhjyyu [sometimes misspelled Fukj-you ] caps, or old HiPros.

Anyway, if you want to know about power supplies (and recognize the ones worth a cap replacement) then a good start is Elma PSU Faq (italian only), maybe more than a faq. Second place for good psu review sites: Jonnyguru (the reference), SilentPCreview (focus on low noise components, they have a good test bench), X-Bit labs (strong point: it tests power distribution among 3.3, 5 and 12 V rails), Hardware secrets (strong point: testers dig into psus at single component level, they desolder everything ), [H]ard-OCP (average, at Badcaps there has been a discussion with an H-OCP member about expensive and well reviewd PC Power & Cooling psus despite employing average grade caps, Teapo brand, which suffers from heat: damn, I can't find the discussion anymore ...).

Well, give them a read when you've enough time.

Zandrax

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Re: The PSU FAQ

Anyone ever heard or tried of GTR? No idea if its good or bad though.

Some of them are Youngyear (very bad), some are CWT (very good). You need to go on a case by case basis with that company.

[EGuevarae]

Re: The PSU FAQ

I didn't see Dynex. They are sold an Best Buy and you can find them on eBay for 16~18 average. No problems so far, and I've been using them for more than two years and not a single one has to be replaced yet.
Dynex Products Home Page

The specific PSU I'm talking about is this

[Behemot]

Re: The PSU FAQ

I have one probably stupid question, but anyway, I still don't quiet get it. How the current really flows so it can use both diodes in rectifiying bridge? From what PeteS in CA wrote (one diode is active during the each part fo the cycle), one would say, only the current which one diode can handle could be taken out. But obviously the current is limited to the amount which both diodes can handle together.