Lenovo ideapad 5 windows 11 update disable charging circuit?

[bogart219]

Just got back from the computer shop. The guy was very nice and accommodating but basically didn't want to mess with it. He said, which is probably true, that the time he took troubleshooting it I would be better off getting a another motherboard. I think this place does a lot of board swapping when they can instead of doing SMD work, is the impression I got. I'll just keep F'n with it.
One thing he acknowledge that a windows update can corrupt a up a bios and Sorin said the same thing. I think I'll get one of those CH341A programmers and play with that, nothing to lose at this point.

[m1ch43lzm]

Not the BIOS yet, if it was a corrupted BIOS the laptop would power on, have all voltages but won't show an image (stuck at black screen)
At this point we have to focus on getting the voltages first, why there's no 3.3V and 5V

Yes, it's a bad practice by MS to supply BIOS updates along windows updates, sometimes people are in a hurry and force power off/the update appears to get "stuck", that's usually when BIOS corruption happens in the middle of an update
At least on desktop PCs built from parts that doesn't happen (yet)

For the CH341A additionally you need a WSON8 8x6 adapter, the SOP8 clip that comes usually with those kits won't work here
There's also pogo pin adapters for WSON8 8x6 but you need to hold that for around 2-3 minutes as the CH341A is slow

That computer shop most likely does part replacement or upgrades/cleaning/replacing thermal paste and reinstalling OS/fixing software issues, along selling PCs/accessories, nothing wrong with that of course, but they probably don't do microsoldering
At least they were honest about it

The last resort: find the same laptop but with a broken screen/damaged case or something like that for cheap (but a good motherboard), as I checked ebay and for the asking price of your motherboard you can probably get a used laptop with similar specs...
Just checked https://www.ebay.com/itm/276961397483
a working used/refurbished laptop (exact same model/specs as yours) cheaper than the motherboard for it?



A bit off topic: in my country people will try to fix it going to different shops until the end, sometimes people end in "bad"/dishonest shops that tell you "it's not fixable" but keep the good parts for themselves, then it ends in another shop that tells the truth about the missing parts/beyond economic repair status
Or if the repair cost exceeds the cost of the same item in the used market, it can end in the "scrap"/"for parts" pile of a repair shop

[bogart219]

Ok, I hear what your saying, I'm just Leary about getting used parts but might end up going that route , have to keep looking. It would be nice to find similar laptop with a busted screen for a $100 bucks or something.
This motherboard has two bios chips on it, one is a backup supposdlly so if there was a problem, the board would use or load from the backup I'm assuming. Which one would you even program?

In the mean time:" At this point we have to focus on getting the voltages first, why there's no 3.3V and 5V"
This is exactly what I was thinking.
Being this usb-c charging port only has 5 volts showing because some chip (pd controller) has to "negotiate" with the charger and tell it to let the 20 volts through (still trying to wrap my head around this) its not like in most the video's I see on U-tube where the tech starts with the 19 volts and follows the rails to see where it cuts out, you know what I mean.
Isn't that "negotiating "signal coming from the Pd controller which in our case is the TPS chip? So one of the pins on that TPS chip is sending 3 to 5 volts back to the usb-c charging port to say let the voltage come. Is this correct so far? Will this "negotiating" be in the form of a voltage or a signal? Thats it, where do we start. Its almost like we have to start backwards or something.
So far we know its not the bios and their doesn't appear to be any short circuits, at least the ones that heats up a component. We got 5 volts at the TPS but what path did it take to get there. why can't we find 3.3 volts? so many questions.

[m1ch43lzm]

Most of the motherboards found on ebay are used/pulls, especially the ones from China
Even the prices are too expensive when the same used laptop costs less than the motherboard only (found another used laptop with some scratches/dents at 400), makes no sense to pay more than that for a motherboard...

The BIOS is split between the 2 chips, likely there's a 8MB (has a "64" in the name) chip, and another 16MB (128) chip, I dont know why they split it like that instead of using a single 32MB chip, seems to be done that way starting at 11th-12th Intel CPUs
Before programming you must make a backup of the contents, the board specific data (serial/model/machine type) and the windows key are stored there, flashing a random BIOS will overwrite that info; some shops just don't care about that leaving you with a cloned/empty serial
Or just randomly flash the BIOS without checking the hardware first (why take several hours to troubleshoot a board, when a bios flash can be done in few minutes right? That's what they probably think...)

That's what the people at the bios request sub forum mostly do, they prepare a new bios with your serial, etc extracted from your original bios, starting from a "clean"/"virgin" BIOS

its not like in most the video's I see on U-tube where the tech starts with the 19 volts and follows the rails to see where it cuts out, you know what I mean.

As i said before, that only applies to laptops with a regular DC jack
If only your laptop had a regular DC jack...
I don't think it's a good idea to bypass the whole USB-C input stuff, I haven't tried that

Isn't that "negotiating "signal coming from the Pd controller which in our case is the TPS chip? So one of the pins on that TPS chip is sending 3 to 5 volts back to the usb-c charging port to say let the voltage come. Is this correct so far? Will this "negotiating" be in the form of a voltage or a signal?

Not exactly, the AC adapter starts at 0V output, then it senses through the CC1 and CC2 pins that it's connected to the board and outputs 5V
The communication is done through CC1 and CC2, it's data exchanged through those 2 lines

We got 5 volts at the TPS but what path did it take to get there. why can't we find 3.3 volts? so many questions.

Those 5V you get, are straight from the USB-C ports (which should become 20V)
Don't confuse that voltage, with 5VALW which has to be generated from the main power rail, you don't want 20V on the 5V rail
Even if it's only 5V, that should go after the fuses (and inductors) to the BQ charger input
If you get 5V at the fuses, it's a step in the right direction

Check out the sticky Laptop battery charging circuit
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...arging-circuit
Yours is NVDC, and it's a buck/boost converter, it has the ability to boost 5V to around 12-13V (main power rail voltage), the input stage is similar to the Macs from around 2016-2017 with USB-C ports, they use different chips but it's the same concept

[bogart219]

Thanks again for the info, I got some studying to do

[bogart219]

Hello again. I haven't given up yet. I'm still looking over this board looking for something thats not quite right. I was focusing on components that looked liked they had a change in color, maybe indicating something going on. Probably nothing but I found a couple of inductors that looked like they got hot maybe.

I measured the inductance of each of these three inductors. I used my zoyi zt-md1 tweezer tester at 10K.
PL5301 - 2.0 SHOULD BE 2.1
PL6501 - .9 SHOULD BE 1.0
PL3001 - .4 SHOULD BE 47 HMM WHY SO LOW? The inductor was measuring 172 ohms to ground as was the 4 caps below it.

Probably nothing.

[m1ch43lzm]

Resistance to GND at PL3001 looks within range at 172ohm, it's the 1.2V supply to the RAM, normal to have that "low" resistance on a low voltage line
The coils look OK to me, the printing looks like it has dissolved/faded a bit with alcohol, they don't look cooked/burnt
Inductance values look OK, within tolerance, consider you're measuring in circuit
R47 means 0.47uH, the R is the decimal point

The 1.2v supply comes after pressing the power button, we're not even at that point, everything goes in sequence

[bogart219]

Ok Mich, I'll keep at it. Thanks for the info on the coils!

[bogart219]

I noticed what looked like rosin oozing out of the CPU at the four corners. anything to be concerned about?

[m1ch43lzm]

I noticed what looked like rosin oozing out of the CPU at the four corners. anything to be concerned about?

That's the black glue/epoxy or whatever Lenovo uses at the factory which makes it hard to desolder BGA chips without damaging the pads on the board

You may have noticed the same glue in the corners of some chips, like the RAM and the EC
Supposedly is to add mechanical strength to those components

[bogart219]

That's the black glue/epoxy or whatever Lenovo uses at the factory which makes it hard to desolder BGA chips without damaging the pads on the board

You may have noticed the same glue in the corners of some chips, like the RAM and the EC
Supposedly is to add mechanical strength to those components

OK, thanks!

[Sephir0th]

I admire your persistence but at some point someone should realize that it can not go on like this after filling this thread with 11 pages for almost 3 months. Half of it irrelevant and misleading and without any structure if m1ch43lzm wouldn't assist anymore.

What it really needs now is a structured overview of the original issue/history, everything what was done so far, and what has changed after that (or not). Only this way someone will be possibly able to make sense of all this.

You decide which way you want to go, but it definitely can't go on like this.

[bogart219]

I hear you brother and your right. I wanted to see and learn if I could take on the process of micro soldering and smd repair on circuit boards. Obviously I have failed so far but I will not give up yet. What I spent on equipment and supplies to accomplish this, I could of bought a new laptop like the one I'm trying to fix. My whole problem from the start might of been a corrupted bios from a windows update but I ended up going down a rabbit hole. I'm a 70year old retired who wanted to make this my hobby so I have something to do in my old age.
As far as this laptop I'm trying to fix goes, I'm lost and don't know what to do next or even start over. shut out to Mich and mon2 for trying to help me. If the mods want to delete this post its ok. This shit is frustration and fun at the same time. No doubt you said what a lot of people were thinking. I love this board and wouldn't want to piss anyone off. Peace out

[Sephir0th]

I tried to be polite as possible.

It is normal that the first, the second, the third and even more repair attempts are not succesful. This is part of the process and the typical reason is that the issue was made worse at some point where it is not (economically or without special tools) repairable anymore. We all had to go through this.

But as I said we need something like a overview. I can't follow anymore without investing hours of time examining the thread.

[m1ch43lzm]

Sephir0th
What i remember so far
Schematics and board view: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...rd-view-please

Initial fault: Laptop worked only from a charged battery (no BIOS issue)
- With battery connected, PD controller negotiated 20V, but no current consumption (0 amp)
- Battery disconnected, only 5V on USB-C meter, 0 amp draw, laptop doesn't power on
- battery connected, laptop worked
Voltage was not going to the charger input, likely the PD controller didn't enable the first MOSFET as a protection measure

We found a shorted cap at the input of the BQ25710 (PC5303), and 2 MOSFETs shorted S-D near the PD controller (TPS65994)

Something went wrong when replacing the MOSFETs (replacements were 3.3x3.3mm instead of 3x3mm), and the PD controller got damaged (overheating, shorted 5VALW)
PC5303 was shorted, confirmed by injecting 1V from bench PSU and thermal camera, it was also hard to remove, I suspect too little heat for too long

PD controller was replaced 2 times, the first time with TPS65994AD suffix, second time with TPS65994AE
It was either looping 5v-0v on the USB-C meter, or stable 5V, depending on soldering, resoldering the PD controller changed behavior

In this laptop the PD controller doesn't have a dedicated SPI ROM, instead its config/firmware is supplied by the EC (according to schematics, and TPS65994 datasheet)

Current state: Laptop doesn't power on from battery anymore
- both 3VALW and 5VALW are unstable/pulsing, the LDO outputs 3VL and 5VL are stable
3VALW and 5VALW not shorted (maybe check again)
- Tried to isolate 3VALW and 5VALW from the system side, there are 2 solder jumpers, again, not stable 3.3V/5V
- the EN for 3.3/5V look stable, maybe double check this

At this point, replacement motherboard costs more than same model/specs used laptop...

-------

My whole problem from the start might of been a corrupted bios from a windows update

Not the BIOS, if the BIOS was corrupted the laptop would power on but no POST/no image on the screen, the laptop worked fine from battery
It was a coincidence that after the update and reboot the laptop stopped charging the battery, as you said previously it was plugged in all the time
And you would have 3.3V and 5V, you need 3.3V for the BIOS to power on

You'll see at the BIOS request subforum people requesting a BIOS for laptop model "X", then find out that it wasn't the issue/the provided BIOS didn't change anything, in some cases a BIOS extracted from the manufacturer website with the serial/model copied from the corrupt BIOS it works (as it was actually the issue)

[bogart219]

Sephir0th
What i remember so far
Schematics and board view: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...rd-view-please

Initial fault: Laptop worked only from a charged battery (no BIOS issue)
- With battery connected, PD controller negotiated 20V, but no current consumption (0 amp)
- Battery disconnected, only 5V on USB-C meter, 0 amp draw, laptop doesn't power on
- battery connected, laptop worked
Voltage was not going to the charger input, likely the PD controller didn't enable the first MOSFET as a protection measure

We found a shorted cap at the input of the BQ25710 (PC5303), and 2 MOSFETs shorted S-D near the PD controller (TPS65994)

Something went wrong when replacing the MOSFETs (replacements were 3.3x3.3mm instead of 3x3mm), and the PD controller got damaged (overheating, shorted 5VALW)
PC5303 was shorted, confirmed by injecting 1V from bench PSU and thermal camera, it was also hard to remove, I suspect too little heat for too long

PD controller was replaced 2 times, the first time with TPS65994AD suffix, second time with TPS65994AE
It was either looping 5v-0v on the USB-C meter, or stable 5V, depending on soldering, resoldering the PD controller changed behavior

In this laptop the PD controller doesn't have a dedicated SPI ROM, instead its config/firmware is supplied by the EC (according to schematics, and TPS65994 datasheet)

Current state: Laptop doesn't power on from battery anymore
- both 3VALW and 5VALW are unstable/pulsing, the LDO outputs 3VL and 5VL are stable
3VALW and 5VALW not shorted (maybe check again)
- Tried to isolate 3VALW and 5VALW from the system side, there are 2 solder jumpers, again, not stable 3.3V/5V
- the EN for 3.3/5V look stable, maybe double check this

At this point, replacement motherboard costs more than same model/specs used laptop...

-------

Not the BIOS, if the BIOS was corrupted the laptop would power on but no POST/no image on the screen, the laptop worked fine from battery
It was a coincidence that after the update and reboot the laptop stopped charging the battery, as you said previously it was plugged in all the time
And you would have 3.3V and 5V, you need 3.3V for the BIOS to power on

You'll see at the BIOS request subforum people requesting a BIOS for laptop model "X", then find out that it wasn't the issue/the provided BIOS didn't change anything, in some cases a BIOS extracted from the manufacturer website with the serial/model copied from the corrupt BIOS it works (as it was actually the issue)

WoW,Mich, that just about sums it up. Great explanation on the bios being the problem, I got that out of my head. No doubt putting on those wrong mosfets and TPS chip is where all the trouble started . I'm going back to the beginning of this post and starting over reading it again. Maybe I'll get lucky.

I'm typing this on my desktop which I use in the morning, my laptop I use in the evening while watching tv.
that $50 dell Inspirion 15 you helped me unlock the bios pasword works great. I put in a SSD drive I had and upgraded the ram to 16gb. I'm using Linux Mint on it and its fast and the screen is like new. This will do what I want it to do. Still miss my Levono.

On a side note, do you know if there is a problem or something wrong with this thread being so long with no conclusion yet? Is it against board rules that we keep discussing it? I see so many post on here where people ask for help get a few suggestions on what to try , try a couple things, then disappear not saying what the outcome was. If your done with a post ,at least end it and don't leave it up in the air, especially if you found the problem and fixed it, pass that knowledge around, might help something again.
Thanks again Mich, you keep me going

[Sephir0th]

No 20V at VBUS anymore in combination with pulsing ALW voltages most likely means that

a) that the replacement PD-controller was not soldered properly, two times. Do we have pictures of proof for correct soldering from different angles? This assumes too, that the statement of "auto-programming" applies here. Was the EC rom checked for PD firmware or is there another proof that this is the case here for sure (100%)?

And b) either a second underlying issue further down the sequence (not on the 3VALW/5VALW but later) or it has something to do with the PD-Controller at fault. It's useless to concentrate on the ALW supplies when they appear being good. You need to move forward then.

The battery is still charged enough to power on the device?

[m1ch43lzm]

On a side note, do you know if there is a problem or something wrong with this thread being so long with no conclusion yet? Is it against board rules that we keep discussing it? I see so many post on here where people ask for help get a few suggestions on what to try , try a couple things, then disappear not saying what the outcome was. If your done with a post ,at least end it and don't leave it up in the air, especially if you found the problem and fixed it, pass that knowledge around, might help something again.
Thanks again Mich, you keep me going

I don't think there's anything wrong with this thread being long, maybe Sephir0th is asking "why we haven't fixed it in 11 pages?", that's why he is asking for a summary overview to start over

It's a misunderstanding, I think he wants to help

[bogart219]

I don't think there's anything wrong with this thread being long, maybe Sephir0th is asking "why we haven't fixed it in 11 pages?", that's why he is asking for a summary overview to start over

It's a misunderstanding, I think he wants to help

Thats cool . I've been a member of this message board for over 15 years and this is really the first time I ever posted a problem here that I can remember. I just wanted to make sure I was following the rules and procedures . Sephir0th help is most welcome

[bogart219]

No 20V at VBUS anymore in combination with pulsing ALW voltages most likely means that

a) that the replacement PD-controller was not soldered properly, two times. Do we have pictures of proof for correct soldering from different angles? This assumes too, that the statement of "auto-programming" applies here. Was the EC rom checked for PD firmware or is there another proof that this is the case here for sure (100%)?

And b) either a second underlying issue further down the sequence (not on the 3VALW/5VALW but later) or it has something to do with the PD-Controller at fault. It's useless to concentrate on the ALW supplies when they appear being good. You need to move forward then.

The battery is still charged enough to power on the device?

Hey Septh, thanks for joining in, any help or suggestions you have are most welcomed and appreciated

To try and answer your questions:
" Was the EC rom checked for PD firmware or is there another proof that this is the case here for sure (100%)?" I have no idea what your talking about here.

"The battery is still charged enough to power on the device?" The battery is charged up but doesn't turn on the laptop anymore. It did at the beginning of this post.

"]No 20V at VBUS anymore in combination with pulsing ALW voltages most likely means that" The five volts I get now no longer pulsates.

"replacement PD-controller was not soldered properly, two times" This is very possible , I'm new at this.


I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that I have five volts at the power adapter and trying to follow the path it takes from there. Maybe I should take up this pd controller chip again.


So one set of these mosfets is for the usb-c port and the other set is for the second usb-c port. In one mosfet the drain is ground and then it goes to the second mosfet where the drain now becomes positive (or vice a versa), is this correct? I watch a lot of Sorin video's.
He talks about one is high and one is low, plus there should be 25 volts on the gate? is this right?
Is it different for a motherboard using usb-c to charge as opposed to the round power jack?
I got 5 volts on the drain of the top left mosfet, but nothing on the one below it. So this voltage is coming from the TPS chip. Are these mosfets supposed to pass 20 volts or 5 volts ? this whole "negotiating" thing is confusing as hell.

You know I'm trying to follow the voltage path and see where it cuts out at. Sorin does it all the time . This is one of the many things I'm trying to understand. Thanks!