[Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

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  • acedogblast
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2023
    • 56
    • USA

    #1

    [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

    First off I would like to thank this community as it has provided me with great information that has helped me greatly on my repair for this Marantz SR5012 AV receiver. I am creating this new thread as the other 2 that I have created here has had their original question/problem solved and I plan that this is the final thread on my repair. Please note that this is my first time repairing audio amplifiers so I may not be aware of common issues and things to know.

    Lets start at what I have done so far. Random speaker popping on all channels is fixed by replacing the 2 large filter capacitors for the power amplifier's power supply. Blown fuses is fixed by insulating the output transistors from the heat sink with thermal pads.

    Now to the current issue which I need to tell the whole story with this AV receiver. This Marantz SR5012 is bought used from Facebook Marketplace with the description describing that it has random speaker popping noise as a defect. This has been addressed with the already mentioned fix of replacing the filter caps. Once I had that fixed I tried playing some movies with it and on parts of the movie where there is loud sounds for the center speaker (and audible distortion) the AV receiver cuts off power and goes into ASO protection which according to the service manual is caused by “a short circuit occurred between the speaker terminals, or speakers with an impedance outside the rating where connected”. I confirmed that all speakers are connected correctly without any shorts and the receiver powers on completely with the speaker relays engaging. A few testing trials latter the receiver will now not power on and will go into ASO protection a second or two after turning on. I took out the amplifier board and found that Q428, the darlington 2SD2560 NPN output transistor for the center channel, has a short between collector to emitter. The corresponding emitter resistors, R511 and R512, have ohm readings in the kilo-ohm range which means they got damaged too from over current. So I had these components replaced thinking that that would be the cause of the problem. Had to replace that transistor twice as I accidentally damaged it since the heatsink had to be electrically isolated from all of the transistors. I also preformed the DC-bias adjustment and set all 7 channels to 8 millivolt as close as I could as specified in the service manual.

    Put everything back together to find out that once again the problem of the ASO protection occurrence again with any loud sound for the center channel. I will not power on the AV receiver again to prevent any further damage to the center channel section of the amplifier as I fear that the original problem is still present.

    Resources that I have looked into so far is this thread on this forum (https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73293) and this website (https://alpengeist-tvrepair.blogspot...g-rapidly.html), alpengeist's TV repair blog of a similar issue.

    Taking a look at the service manual (link posted below) on page 31 which shows the schematic for the amplifier. ASO protection occurs if Q405 gets a signal to its base if any one of the over-current detection transistors “opens its gate”. For the center channel this is Q430. I am going to take out the amplifier board once again to probe all of the transistors on the center channel as specified in the above resources. Are there any other points to test before I go full parts cannon on this repair?

    Marantz SR5012 Service Manual PDF: https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...c775c5d540.pdf
  • Per Hansson
    Super Moderator
    • Jul 2005
    • 5895
    • Sweden

    #2
    Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

    Do you know the speaker is ok?
    For example you could connect the center speaker to another channel to see if the problem follows. (Or vice versa with another speaker connected to the center channel)
    "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

    Comment

    • acedogblast
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2023
      • 56
      • USA

      #3
      Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

      Originally posted by Per Hansson
      Do you know the speaker is ok?
      For example you could connect the center speaker to another channel to see if the problem follows. (Or vice versa with another speaker connected to the center channel)
      Yes I have used 2 different speakers. Same result.

      Comment

      • R_J
        Badcaps Legend
        • Jun 2012
        • 9535
        • Canada

        #4
        Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

        Check ALL the resistors in that channel, (you can compare them to another channel).
        Check R502,R528,R519,R522 and R509 (across VR503) Also Q433 may have been damaged causing the bias to change with signal.
        It may be that one of the resistors has changed value and at idle (low current) the channel will operate but as the current changes the bias on the transistors change and the protection happens. When the outputs shorted they likely supplied full B+ or B- back to R516 and R521, so Q419 or any of the supporting resistors may have been damaged.
        This problem is not easy to locate using a meter as I suspect everything will check ok, but at higher current (Loud sound) is when a leaky transistor will not operate as it should.
        Can you access the transistors etc. when the amp is on? if you can, check Dc voltage on the drivers and see what dc voltage is changing when there is audio, The DC voltages should not change very much with or without audio
        Last edited by R_J; 03-02-2023, 12:37 PM.

        Comment

        • acedogblast
          Senior Member
          • Feb 2023
          • 56
          • USA

          #5
          Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

          R509 is reads larger that the other channel's counterpart at 207.9ohms. The similar resistors are around 180 to 190 ohms. All other resistors measure fine compared to the similar resistors in other channels.
          Last edited by acedogblast; 03-02-2023, 02:41 PM.

          Comment

          • mmartell
            Badcaps Legend
            • Oct 2013
            • 3189
            • Canada

            #6
            Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

            I've been down this rabbit hole. Not every pseudo-random fault is attributable to component failure.

            https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=75229

            Comment

            • acedogblast
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2023
              • 56
              • USA

              #7
              Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

              mmartell are you suggesting that this is just a false positive caused by loose connections?
              Looking at the schematic the ASO_DET pin on N1019 will go though a transistor (Q1025) that will pull down a 3.3V signal voltage that if not giving a high signal to the main CPU will cause the CPU to go to into protection.

              I'm going to hook up my oscilloscope to the ASO_DET pin on N1019. If this is a false positive then I shouldn't see any activation voltage to Q1025.
              Last edited by acedogblast; 03-02-2023, 04:10 PM.

              Comment

              • acedogblast
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2023
                • 56
                • USA

                #8
                Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                This is not a false positive. I read 0.72VDC (could be higher) on ASO_DET pin by connecting probes on one leg of C515 and the ground to jumper J584 which leads to the other pin of C515.
                I also do not think this is a loose connection as tapping around the PCBs do not trigger any protection.
                Last edited by acedogblast; 03-02-2023, 05:27 PM.

                Comment

                • mmartell
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Oct 2013
                  • 3189
                  • Canada

                  #9
                  Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                  In the thread I linked the poster at the end said he reflowed the cpu and the problem went away. That wasn't my experience - I could physically push on the boards and make sound come and go AND throw the unit into protection.

                  I went down that path because while the unit was in service I got pissed and was reaching around the back to check for intermittent connections and when there were none I whacked it on the side at the rear right and was amazed the sound returned to full volume in all channels as intended.

                  Comment

                  • eccerr0r
                    Solder Sloth
                    • Nov 2012
                    • 8701
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                    usually these things trip and lock down so unless you have a quick eye and meter or a logger, you won't notice which channel is causing the trip. After the trip occurs, shutdown happens, and the measured voltages have no meaning.

                    Did you check Q434 if that was bad too?

                    Comment

                    • acedogblast
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2023
                      • 56
                      • USA

                      #11
                      Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                      Originally posted by eccerr0r
                      Did you check Q434 if that was bad too?
                      It tests fine. I know it is the center channel that has a problem as all others work fine.

                      Comment

                      • eccerr0r
                        Solder Sloth
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 8701
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                        Are you sure it's the center channel? If both Q428 and Q434 are removed, it will not go down into shutdown?

                        Comment

                        • acedogblast
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2023
                          • 56
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                          Originally posted by eccerr0r
                          Are you sure it's the center channel? If both Q428 and Q434 are removed, it will not go down into shutdown?
                          You want me to take out both output transistors for the center channel? Can you please describe how will removing them help me find the root cause? I am just unsure of the purpose of that.

                          Comment

                          • eccerr0r
                            Solder Sloth
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 8701
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                            There's no way to shut down because of the center channel if you have both output transistors out.

                            Comment

                            • acedogblast
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2023
                              • 56
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                              Ok so I disconnected both output transistors and the result is just as I thought. All channels work expect the center one which is to be expected. This just further confirms that the center channel is the one with the problem.

                              Comment

                              • eccerr0r
                                Solder Sloth
                                • Nov 2012
                                • 8701
                                • USA

                                #16
                                Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                                If you set your bias for this channel correctly (note, you should also measure the voltage between the bases of Q434 and Q428 and ensure it's around 3.5 volts ± a half volt or so) and it sounds like crap, you may have a leaky Q434, if Q428 is known good, or vice versa.
                                Right now the data provided doesn't compute or you have multiple failures here - sense circuit too sensitive plus a bad signal path component to cause distortion?

                                Comment

                                • acedogblast
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Feb 2023
                                  • 56
                                  • USA

                                  #17
                                  Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                                  I put in a new Q434 since I bought a few 2SB1647s. Powering up the base two base DC voltage between Q428 and Q434 is 2.3V. Readjusting the DC bias does not change it.

                                  Comment

                                  • acedogblast
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Feb 2023
                                    • 56
                                    • USA

                                    #18
                                    Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                                    I measured another channel and it also measured 2.3V.

                                    Comment

                                    • eccerr0r
                                      Solder Sloth
                                      • Nov 2012
                                      • 8701
                                      • USA

                                      #19
                                      Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                                      oops should be 2.8V ± 0.5V not 3.5V so you're good there.

                                      and you're sure that R511-R512 R517-R518 are all intact and match?

                                      Comment

                                      • acedogblast
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Feb 2023
                                        • 56
                                        • USA

                                        #20
                                        Re: [Marantz SR5012] Center channel keeps going into ASO/Overcurrent protection.

                                        I have already replaced R511 and R512. Both measure 0.2 ohms as they are in parallel and I have subtracted the meter's lead resistance.

                                        R518 and R517 measure 0.9 ohms which is high. Going to replace them right now. I remembered that they measured fine before though.

                                        Comment

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