Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

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  • JordanW
    New Member
    • Jan 2023
    • 9
    • Canada

    #1

    Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

    Everyone -- I am trying to troubleshoot my NAD C740 stereo receiver, which either won't power on or won't consistently stay powered on.

    I will start by saying that I am a hobbyist, and while I am decently handy with basic DC stuff, I am more hesitant when it comes to mains-powered equipment (that is, reluctant to poke around with a multimeter when it is powered on)

    The central issue is that after a long period of non-use, the receiver powers on and all functions seem to behave normally, but after a couple of minutes, it powers itself off.

    If I attempt to power the radio on again at this point, nothing happens. But if I allow it to "rest" for at least a few hours, I can power it on again. The amount of time it stays on after this "rest" seems to depend on how much "rest" it has had (more "rest" = stays on longer)

    In some cases, the receiver can run quite happily for an hour or more, but if I manually turn it off, and then attempt to turn it on again right away, it simply won't turn on again.

    At first I thought this was a power supply issue, specifically of a relay in the initial power supply stage. The service manual (with schematics) is at https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1254519/Nad-C740.html and in the lower right corner, the initial power supply stage is shown (also highlighted in the attached image). I replaced the relay notated as RL901 in an initial attempt to fix the radio. This doesn't seem to have changed anything.

    It seems from the schematic that this relay is in fact energized (through the transistor DTC123JS -- not sure what type that is) by a signal coming from the socket labelled JL951A. I can confirm that socket connects to the "NAD Link" sub-board (presumably used for components to control each other). But that in turn is connected elsewhere in the radio, which I haven't explored.

    Presumably that "elsewhere" in the radio turns the DTC123JS transistor on and keeps it on.

    I'm really mystified as to what is going on -- the behaviour itself and why it is time-dependent (the "rest" periods). My guess would be that some component is failing as it "warms up" and turns that transistor off. Perhaps a bad cap? Is this the usual failure mode for a bad cap? None of the caps that I can see look obviously damaged or bulging, and the main power fuse is fine. But there are many dozens of capacitors in this receiver (some very large, some very small)

    Has anyone seen behaviour like this in consumer electronics before? What are some other likely culprits?

    Any advice would be appreciated, Happy New Year to all.
    Attached Files
  • R_J
    Badcaps Legend
    • Jun 2012
    • 9535
    • Canada

    #2
    Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

    I would start by replacing C961, it is for the standby circuit and the fact it is always plugged in, this cap can dry out over time.

    Comment

    • JordanW
      New Member
      • Jan 2023
      • 9
      • Canada

      #3
      Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

      Originally posted by R_J
      I would start by replacing C961, it is for the standby circuit and the fact it is always plugged in, this cap can dry out over time.
      Thanks for the tip, I think the one you are referring to is C951 (the second number does look like a 6 at first) -- 220 uF 16 V capacitor that is part of that standby power supply stage across the four-diode rectifier component, correct?
      Last edited by JordanW; 01-02-2023, 02:30 PM.

      Comment

      • jiroy
        Badcaps Legend
        • Jun 2016
        • 2416
        • Lebanon

        #4
        Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

        Originally posted by JordanW
        Thanks for the tip, I think the one you are referring to is C951 (the second number does look like a 6 at first) -- 220 uF 16 V capacitor that is part of that standby power supply stage across the four-diode rectifier component, correct?
        R_J is right , it's C961.. Compare it to the "5" in the nearby diode ..

        Update : It's C951 ..Sorry
        Last edited by jiroy; 01-02-2023, 02:46 PM.

        Comment

        • R_J
          Badcaps Legend
          • Jun 2012
          • 9535
          • Canada

          #5
          Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

          This one...
          Attached Files

          Comment

          • JordanW
            New Member
            • Jan 2023
            • 9
            • Canada

            #6
            Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

            Originally posted by R_J
            This one...
            Thanks for the advice. I replaced that cap, and while the radio seems to be behaving a bit better, and will stay on and behave normally for several hours, if I power down the radio it will still not power up again right away -- but will do so after what seems like 30+ minutes "rest".

            Any ideas what to try next?

            Comment

            • R_J
              Badcaps Legend
              • Jun 2012
              • 9535
              • Canada

              #7
              Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

              Another likely problem is C712, it is a .01F capacitor and it is likely bad, it can upset the reset circuit, I would just disconnect it for now and see if the unit operates better, this is a 0.1 farad capacitor used for memory backup, C712 acts like a battery and if dead, it will load the 5.6v and upset the way the unit operates.

              The next voltage I would check is the 5.6 volts, it is supplied by the Q923 (78M56) regulator ic on page 9, C927 may be bad? I would check all the voltages to see if any are wrong ie: +12, -12 etc.

              The +13 volts standby feeds the in of Q923 via D925 this regulator supplies the 5.6v standby, once the unit is ON the regulator Q923 IN is fed by the +25.4v via D926

              A couple other caps that bight cause this type of problem are C707 (1µf/50v) in the reset circuit
              Last edited by R_J; 01-03-2023, 11:59 AM.

              Comment

              • JordanW
                New Member
                • Jan 2023
                • 9
                • Canada

                #8
                Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                Originally posted by R_J
                Another likely problem is C712, it is a .01F capacitor and it is likely bad, it can upset the reset circuit, I would just disconnect it for now and see if the unit operates better, this is a 0.1 farad capacitor used for memory backup [...]
                Thank you so much for these tips.

                In another forum, someone suggested that there may be an issue with D951, D952, D953, D954 (the discrete diodes that make up the bridge rectifier) and / or R951, the resistor that feeds them.

                Their thinking is that if one of these diodes is "failing open" as it warms up, or if the resistor is increasing resistance as it warms up, that would explain why the receiver will stay on once powered on, but won't restart once powered down (that is, with hot diodes / resistor there is just enough current to keep the relay RL901 on if already on, but not enough to turn it on if it is not already on)

                What do you think of that idea?

                Comment

                • R_J
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Jun 2012
                  • 9535
                  • Canada

                  #9
                  Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                  I would go after that .1 farad cap, diodes are likely not the issue, I suspect C712 is bad, just remove it for now.

                  Comment

                  • JordanW
                    New Member
                    • Jan 2023
                    • 9
                    • Canada

                    #10
                    Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                    Originally posted by R_J
                    I would go after that .1 farad cap, diodes are likely not the issue, I suspect C712 is bad, just remove it for now.
                    I can do that -- just found it on the schematic. That is a big fat capacitance so it should be one of the largest things on the PCB and hopefully easy to find.

                    I have found that after the power cycles I've been trying out, the receiver "forgets" the last FM station it was tuned to (which I don't recall being its behaviour before) so perhaps that is also a clue in favour of C712 being an issue.

                    Comment

                    • R_J
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Jun 2012
                      • 9535
                      • Canada

                      #11
                      Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                      Yes, C712 is used for memory backup. The cap is located on the narrow side of the display board, next to JL704a plug, (page 7), likely looks like a single cell battery standing up on the board
                      Last edited by R_J; 01-03-2023, 02:48 PM.

                      Comment

                      • JordanW
                        New Member
                        • Jan 2023
                        • 9
                        • Canada

                        #12
                        Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                        Originally posted by R_J
                        Yes, C712 is used for memory backup. The cap is located on the narrow side of the display board, next to JL704a plug, (page 7), likely looks like a single cell battery standing up on the board
                        Sorry for the delay, I wasn't able to get to this until today.

                        I managed to find C712 on the board. As you suspected -- there is some kind of orange goo emanating from one side (see photo below). I removed it.

                        The radio doesn't power up at all now, so likely there needs to be something there. I will try to find a replacement tomorrow.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                        • JordanW
                          New Member
                          • Jan 2023
                          • 9
                          • Canada

                          #13
                          Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                          An update -- Replacing C712 (the "coin cell" 0.1F cap responsible for maintaining the station memories) got the receiver back into working condition, and I was able to run it for about two hours with totally normal behaviour, including powering it off and on a few times. But after powering it down for the night, it now won't power back on again at all.

                          I got this receiver for a very low price, second-hand, about 10 years ago, so it doesn't owe me anything!

                          I'll try replacing that cap again "just in case" (I got a spare) but otherwise will sell it for parts / someone else's project. Thanks everyone for the advice.

                          Comment

                          • Th3_uN1Qu3
                            Believe in
                            • Jul 2010
                            • 6031
                            • Romania

                            #14
                            Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                            It isn't that cap then. My guess is that orange goo coming out of it corroded or shorted some traces nearby. Look closely around the position of C712, use a magnifier or microscope if you have it.
                            Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                            Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                            A working TV? How boring!

                            Comment

                            • JordanW
                              New Member
                              • Jan 2023
                              • 9
                              • Canada

                              #15
                              Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                              Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3
                              It isn't that cap then. My guess is that orange goo coming out of it corroded or shorted some traces nearby. Look closely around the position of C712, use a magnifier or microscope if you have it.
                              I have both, and will take another look, but I didn't see anything obvious. And the orange goo never hit the circuit board (just on the cap itself) and never made it to the side with the traces.

                              I was so excited when the receiver started up normally after replacing the cap -- and then it died. Could be that the cap I put in got fried within its first use ... or it could be something different.

                              Comment

                              • Th3_uN1Qu3
                                Believe in
                                • Jul 2010
                                • 6031
                                • Romania

                                #16
                                Re: Diagnosing NAD receiver -- unexplained shut-downs

                                If you are sure you have no corrosion on the PCB then it is likely to be something else - try checking the other capacitors on the digital rails, maybe there are other bad caps causing glitches and lockups.
                                Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                                Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                                A working TV? How boring!

                                Comment

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