newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

[glutton4punishment]

Howdy!

The main problem is that the agitator/spin motor doesn't run (front loader, AEG/Electrolux). The water pump, and all other electronics seem to work, and it goes through the error diagnosis on the control panel.

I checked the motor values, and it seems to be OK.

I looked over the MB, and I didn't like how the MB looked at the attachment points of the motor to the wiring harness, so I cleaned them up.

As I looked around more, I noticed on one soldered lead of a cap had a brown coating around it. (No, not glue). I took a picture AFTER I had cleaned it up a bit, you can still see some of the coating. I took measurements of that cap printed values are ELNA, 220 uF, 35V. The meter said 228 uF, Vloss = 2.1%, ESR=0.69.

OK, I thought, it looks like maybe it leaked, but the values look OK. It's about impossible to see the cap side of the board, the cap doesn't have enough clearance to see underneath it.

Since there's only 4 electrolytic caps on the board, I thought I'd check the others out, too.

Next two caps with the same printed value as above (ELNA, 220 uF, 35V) read:
445 uF, Vloss = 12%, ESR = .66
447 uF, Vloss= 12%, ESR = .69

Now for the last cap, printed value of LETON, 10uF, 400V, the meter reads:
DIODE Uf = 699mV, C= 10.2 uF!!

BTW, according the map of the circuit board, all the caps are in the power supply section, not in anything controlling the motor.

So, I'm confused as to why the motor is the problem, but the caps in the power supply seem to be the troublemakers.....

Thanks!

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

I'm uploading the pics to Drive right now, one moment's patience, please!

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

after 20 minutes of not being able to upload pics, I guess newbie needs help with that too

[diif]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

Click Go Advanced below, then the paperclip.

Have you checked the brushes on the motor ?

Did you remove those caps from circuit to test ?

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

BTW, no caps are bulging.

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

Click Go Advanced below, then the paperclip. OK, will do

Have you checked the brushes on the motor ? No, will do.

Did you remove those caps from circuit to test ?

No, will do.

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...dTRDhRQVlSSVp3

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...YyRWJMRTkxTUo0

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1e7...fxcNyUywqES2nD

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NU...lXJVLCp8LZpV-C

[petehall347]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

did you check the triacs ? and also motor wires ?

[petehall347]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

last pic bottom left looks like bulging cap

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

last pic bottom left looks like bulging cap

naw, it's just the angle.

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

click go advanced below, then the paperclip.

Have you checked the brushes on the motor ? brushes are good

did you remove those caps from circuit to test ?

i took them out of circuit and they test good

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

did you check the triacs ? and also motor wires ?

I tested the motor wires, all good

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE TRIAC IS.
There's one non SMC transistor (3 legs) attached to a heat sink.

When I attached it to a multi-component tester, I got readings of hFE=56.0K and uf = 546 mV
After that, I retried, and I got "resistor" of 71 ohm between points a & b, and 267 ohms between b & c.


WTD?

[Per Hansson]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

after 20 minutes of not being able to upload pics, I guess newbie needs help with that too

Here is a FAQ on how to upload pics, or do you get any errors when you try to?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1868

[petehall347]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

I tested the motor wires, all good

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE TRIAC IS.
There's one non SMC transistor (3 legs) attached to a heat sink.

When I attached it to a multi-component tester, I got readings of hFE=56.0K and uf = 546 mV
After that, I retried, and I got "resistor" of 71 ohm between points a & b, and 267 ohms between b & c.


WTD?

maybe it doesnt use triacs for switching then . most i have worked on have a row of them on the main board .

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

Here is a FAQ on how to upload pics, or do you get any errors when you try to?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1868

thanks very much for that!

Since the caps ended up not being the problem, I'm not going to reload the pics.

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

re: the triacs, there are 4 of these white cubes on the board....each, it seems, has 5 connections to the board.....are these triacs?

[stj]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

Next two caps with the same printed value as above (ELNA, 220 uF, 35V) read:
445 uF, Vloss = 12%, ESR = .66
447 uF, Vloss= 12%, ESR = .69

those are fucked,
they are internally leaky leading to high uf readings.

[glutton4punishment]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

those are fucked,
they are internally leaky leading to high uf readings.

I took them out of circuit, and then they read ok

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

I took them out of circuit, and then they read ok

Compared to a new one of same UF value and same voltage

I do not think so I test a lot of capacitor and to me those ESR value look high

( one note if you get any reading over 0.30 [ on UF values less than 470 UF ] I would check it with a new one of a brand name capacitor to know for sure weather or not its reading is high or not or if in doubt)

If this was a 220uf cap and it reads 445uf then there is something really wrong with those capacitors

And if they are 470uf capacitors then I would question weather those capacitors are any good any way

Here is my rule about ESR values ( that are used in Switching Power Supply ) ( in other devices it depends on what type of device it is if I have this opinion on it or not —> if it has a timing circuit or a micro controller in it then I have the same opinion as I do about switching power supply )

If the capacitor is a non well known manufacturer I replace on site
If the capacitor is more than 10% higher in ESR value of a new one it gets replaced even if it is a well known brand

If it has a value less than 10% I might change them any way

if the device is older than 5 years old or if it being used 24 hours a day and 7 days a week 365 days a year or the device sit around for long periods of time not being used and I am have issues with the device I replaced them

This is just my opinion

[R_J]

Re: newbie needs help w/Electrolytic caps (washing machine)

Does this "washing machine" have a model number? does the board have a part number? attach pictures of the complete board, both sides.