Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

[clearchris]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

I have tools that address both approaches. It will just be a matter of "doing my homework" to make sure the criteria for one approach don't undermine the other...

Yeah, that's not a trivial task, just designing with one method alone offers limitiations and challenges.

[Curious.George]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Yeah, that's not a trivial task, just designing with one method alone offers limitiations and challenges.

I am 107% clueless as to how this will work as I have 0 experience designing "mechanical things" (that aren't "mechanisms").

This will be payback for all the times I scoffed at my MechE friends over their "obvious" design screwups!!

[clearchris]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Heh, well, for 3d printing, the main thing is overhangs, and how you don't want them. Things print on the plate and go up. You can't print on air, you can only print on lower layers. Ideally, you want no more than a 45degree angle overhang for perfect printing. Small overhangs aren't a big deal, but they often won't come out perfect. Bigger overhangs require "support" and generally don't come out great either. If you want an example, check this out. Download the STLs at take a look. Or load up freecad. The pieces are meant to print on the face and on the back.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4126979

[Curious.George]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Heh, well, for 3d printing, the main thing is overhangs, and how you don't want them. Things print on the plate and go up. You can't print on air, you can only print on lower layers. Ideally, you want no more than a 45degree angle overhang for perfect printing. Small overhangs aren't a big deal, but they often won't come out perfect. Bigger overhangs require "support" and generally don't come out great either.

Yes. There are very different constraints for injection molds vs. printing.

You can always do "anything" -- but, price tends to make things impractical.

I suspect I will have a bigger challenge with the injection molded parts because you have to arrange for the MOLD to "get out of the way" when you're done! It's REALLY costly if the mold has to have moving "cam slides" to allow it to wiggle out of the way as the part is extracted.

The other big practical problem is that your mold (which costs many kilodollars!) can be "held hostage" to tie you to a particular provider.

And, molds wear, with use. So, you have to make a projection at the onset as to how many pieces you want the mold to yield before it starts degrading (particularly important with small/precise parts).

<shrug> I just have to budget for Mulligans...

[clearchris]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Yes. There are very different constraints for injection molds vs. printing.

You can always do "anything" -- but, price tends to make things impractical.

I suspect I will have a bigger challenge with the injection molded parts because you have to arrange for the MOLD to "get out of the way" when you're done! It's REALLY costly if the mold has to have moving "cam slides" to allow it to wiggle out of the way as the part is extracted.

The other big practical problem is that your mold (which costs many kilodollars!) can be "held hostage" to tie you to a particular provider.

And, molds wear, with use. So, you have to make a projection at the onset as to how many pieces you want the mold to yield before it starts degrading (particularly important with small/precise parts).

<shrug> I just have to budget for Mulligans...

Yeah, I'm not sure the costs of injection molding make sense even at a few hundred pieces, which is why I haven't looked into it. I'd much rather get a metal casting setup, it would be sweet to be able to do "lost pla" casting. There are some reputable print farms out there, I'd check the cost of both for your run.

[Curious.George]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Yeah, I'm not sure the costs of injection molding make sense even at a few hundred pieces, which is why I haven't looked into it. I'd much rather get a metal casting setup, it would be sweet to be able to do "lost pla" casting. There are some reputable print farms out there, I'd check the cost of both for your run.

I need a few hundred thousand pieces. So, for production, there's no real choice. The "printing" option was my DIY idea for "small quantities" -- just to "test for fit/form/function"

[clearchris]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

I need a few hundred thousand pieces. So, for production, there's no real choice. The "printing" option was my DIY idea for "small quantities" -- just to "test for fit/form/function"

Ah, well, that changes things!

[Curious.George]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

[quantities]

Ah, well, that changes things!

Yes. If you're making "lots", your costs are the cost of the mold plus the weight of the molded parts, regardless of size/shape/complexity.

What I really want to do is design the (molded) production parts -- but use 3D printing to get a "touchy-feely" prototype in low quantities (e.g., ~150 pieces).

But, before that, (hopefully) to get a pre-preliminary part by printing one or two, locally (e.g., a local printer or a Maker House). to see if they CAN be printed (what "material" problems I might encounter) as well as how good those 150 "purchased prints" might later be.

(i.e., if I couldn't get a clear lens, then why bother? "Pretend you can see through this" doesn't cut it!)

[clearchris]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

I don't think you could get printed parts to the quality you could show to potential customers. But it could be good to evaluate fit up, etc. If you could get a print high enough quality to show to customers, it would have to be SLA (or some other process that I'm not up on), and you would probably have to post-process it somehow.

[Curious.George]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

I don't think you could get printed parts to the quality you could show to potential customers. But it could be good to evaluate fit up, etc. If you could get a print high enough quality to show to customers, it would have to be SLA (or some other process that I'm not up on), and you would probably have to post-process it somehow.

I'm not concerned with customers -- they never see prototypes.

But, if, for example, the lens was so hazy that you couldn't see the indicator behind it (or, perhaps, discern its color), then it would be hard to move ahead with formalizing that indicator choice in the HOPE of the production parts being "sufficiently better".

If I told you the production version would "weigh twice as much", you could get an idea as to whether that is "acceptable". If I told you it would cost twice as much, you could evaluate that price point in your mind (and wallet). Or, twice as big, etc.

But there are many qualities that are hard to quantify.

What's "twice as soft"? Or, hard? Or smooth? Rough? What does twice as COLD mean? Or HOT? Even if you could find a formal definition of these things (e.g., the Rockwell hardness scale), folks wouldn't be able to relate to it.

How do you say "this will be twice as clear"? (or, whatever) How do you relate to that? Or, twice as brittle/fragile/flexible?

<shrug> I'm going to just have to "try" and revise my strategy based on results. Maybe I'll be lucky. Maybe not.

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

I have been following this discussion and it has become very interesting

Yes it has become way of topic —>

But not really because it things to think about when doing a project of any kind but the more complicated it becomes the more thing you have to think about

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

I going to side track this discussion a little bit and ask this question

How do I go about making an enclosure like this

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4126979

[Curious.George]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

I going to side track this discussion a little bit and ask this question

How do I go about making an enclosure like this

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4126979

I'd start by asking clearchris about his experiences printing it and what he might do differently, in hindsight. Seems kinda tight, inside... maybe loosen up some of the dimensions a bit (unless space is a premium).

I'd also ask yourself whether you're looking for a "special" enclosure or just something to keep the guts from spilling around the bench each time you use it!

[In college, I had a buddy who would "air wire" all of his circuits (point-to-point), wrap the entire "ball" (it ALWAYS came out like a ball!) in TOILET PAPER and then gently stuff it into an appropriately sized coffee can. (!) A bit of masking tape on the front with a wax marker indicating what was inside.

And, unrelated to the enclosure (yet without looking into the circuit topology), I'd wonder if it would be relatively easy to add a programmable current limit? I have several "triple output" digitally programmed bench supplies that I often use -- simply because I can type in a voltage and/or current and use them as voltage sources or current sources (wanna drive an LED string? Figure out the minimum Vout that you'll need to excite the string, end-to-end. Then, type in current level you'd like to drive at. Apply load... voila! (you could set the current limit with a knob by monitoring the ACTUAL current being sourced while it is IN the limit condition)

[clearchris]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

sam: Are you saying you want to print the case, or are you saying you want to design something similar? If you want to print the case, make sure your printer is calibrated properly. If you don't have a set of calipers, you reallly need to buy a pair. I use the older version of this one nearly every day.
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-d...per-63711.html

If you want to print the case, the hardest part is getting the parts.

If you want to design a case like that, download freecad and download the design file I provided. Go take a look, poke around. If you want to start using freecad, you will absolutely have to watch some youtube tutorials. My basic steps are, download models of the products used from grabcad.com, or model them in freecad. You can then use those models to determine fitup and also to cut mounting holes, etc. From there it's pretty much just making sure you don't have unprintable overhangs, etc.

CG: I really don't have any regrets on that design, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Space is at a premium, that model fits on my bed with maybe 2-3mm to spare. Maybe if I had more space, I'd have fit a fan, but I have been pleasantly surprised that at most, the supply gets only slightly warm. I think the biggest heat sources, the power brick and the buck converter are far apart, still have plenty of airspace, and the case has a lot of volume compared to thier volumes. So passive radiation seems to work really well. I have to get around to posting a new picture with an actual knob on the pot, it dresses it up quite a bit, really makes the product look finished. Otherwise, I took a long time, and it came out just how I wanted it to. Maybe I would have added an XT60 connector to get direct 19.5v out.

I use this a ton, and the USB charger I added has been my charger of last resort. When nothing else will charge a device, that one will.

I am planning on making a v2 of the case, but I'm considering making it an advanced model with CC/CV control, digipots (control the buck converter), rotary encoders (super fine tuning), and USB control (integration with sigrok?). I'm only kicking around the idea right now and considering requirements, as I haven't actually used a nice power supply, so I don't know what they are or should be capable of.

[Curious.George]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Space is at a premium, that model fits on my bed with maybe 2-3mm to spare.

?? "Bed"? The photos look like it's sitting on the edge of a workbench (I see a soldering iron off to the left, set of allen wrenches, file, etc.). I've assumed it's role was as an adjustable power supply ("lab supply") for PROJECTS -- hence the appeal of the meter.

I think the biggest heat sources, the power brick and the buck converter are far apart, still have plenty of airspace, and the case has a lot of volume compared to thier volumes.

While I'm not fond of bricks (another "thing" to find a place for), they do have appeal when you're trying to make things smaller and/or "relocate" a heat source. That's always a V2 option (let the box just be the regulator/user interface.

I use this a ton, and the USB charger I added has been my charger of last resort. When nothing else will charge a device, that one will.

I rescued a 7 port, "high capacity" charger some months ago. But, it wants to sit on a desk/table and I jealously guard what I allow on my worksurface. I need to modify it so I can hang it below the tabletop. But, it's ROUND so that means most of the connectors will be pointed off in weird directions (i.e., it really WANTS to sit on the tabletop).

I am planning on making a v2 of the case, but I'm considering making it an advanced model with CC/CV control, digipots (control the buck converter), rotary encoders (super fine tuning), and USB control (integration with sigrok?). I'm only kicking around the idea right now and considering requirements, as I haven't actually used a nice power supply, so I don't know what they are or should be capable of.

Mine are huge -- rack mountable -- which is seldom desireable (which is why I was able to rescue them). I stash them out-of-the-way -- which makes it harder to make use of them! But, when I have a genuine need -- enough to justify hefting a ~30? pound box onto my workbench -- they are invaluable.

Not sure if this is the exact same model as mine -- but it looks similar...


For example, I rescued a couple of 4ft LED light strips (illuminators). I was considering mounting these on the inside DOOR edges of the kitchen pantry so they would shine INTO the pantry and illuminate ALL of the shelves (or, at least 4 ft of them!).

But, I had no idea as to how they were internally wired (everything was potted) to even make a guess as to voltage, current, etc.).

So, I set the lab supply for 20mA (a "safe" LED current, in case the lamps were wired in series) and just kept trying higher voltages -- knowing that the current limit would protect me (and being cautious not to exceed any likely component ratings).

Then, once the lamps lit, I started watching where the voltage would show signs of being in the current limit condition to get an idea as to where they WANTED to be operated (ans: around 15VDC).

Likewise, if I am designing something, the lab supplies let me skip the power supply aspect, initially, and still have something to evaluate.

I'd snapped a pic of some binding posts to give you an idea as to what you (and sam) might want to consider, going forward. The smallest JACKS that I have are illustrated near the center of the image (I can't take pictures with this phone worth a damn; but, its more convenient than my iPhone or any of my "digital cameras")

Note the yellow one in the center adjacent to a blue "binding post". I've aligned the two of them based on their "seating surface" (front of enclosure). You can see that they protrude roughly the same amount into the case. I was prepared to argue that you might want to opt for the binding posts, going forward.

But, I stumbled on the OTHER photos (scroll right) and see that your "cheapest smallest available on ebay" are a fair bit smaller than mine. So, disregard.

You may, however, consider the spacing of the jacks. I'm not sure you've ever seen dual banana PLUGS (see pic)? This would allow you to mate a specific cable to the box -- instead of two individual "test leads".

Finally, with your off-board pot (Vadj), consider tying the wiper to the "unused" end of the pot. In this way, if the wiper ever loses electrical contact INSIDE the pot, there will still be a fixed resistance between the two leads running off to your brick. I.e., it will be as if you'd suddenly turned the pot to one extreme (instead of the pot appearing to be removed from the circuit).

[At the very least, you should understand what MIGHT happen in your circuit if the pot fails in that way. Pots get dirty.]

[clearchris]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Heh. 3d printers have a "bed" which has limited dimensions. My printer can get roughly 125x125x125mm. If a part is thin enough, you can print it diagonally and get more length, bot not many things are skinny and long. So it's a printer limitation, not a bench size limitation, though my bench is a bit limited also.

As for as relocating the brick, I wanted it in the power supply to give it some weight. I also can't stand cords everywhere. There are plenty of benchtop power supply designs up on thingiverse with a remote brick. Plus, I have a bunch of these power supplies with broken cords. To fix them you pretty much have to break the case, and get a proprietary jack from china.

3d printers are great for making custom mounting straps and hanging things. I have made a bunch of one-off hangers.

It's true, I'm jealous of your rack mountable power supply. You know you can get rack rails pretty cheap, right? I bought a pair of these recently, they don't look quite 1/8" thick, but they are close. Definitely strong. I'd have no problem putting a rack in underneath my bench.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Space-10...d/311660076356

In regards to LED testing, how do those power supplies operate in regards to CC/CV mode? Is current always limited, or can you turn it off? Does voltage float if CC mode is enabled?

I have some binding posts enroute from china, they actually look compatible with the current banana jack plugs. We'll see how they work.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pair-4mm-...d/372171948616

Do the dual banana plugs have a standard spacing? I searched and found one that was 14mm on center. That's an easy one to implement (I think)

Interesting idea. I think I'd rather the pot fail than be locked on high voltage, I'd have to see if that makes the buck converter go high or low.

BTW, I have seen some mention of being able to gang up power supplies if they have a ground plug. Do you know what the ground plug is connected to? Wall ground? Something else?

Thanks!

[Curious.George]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Heh. 3d printers have a "bed" which has limited dimensions. My printer can get roughly 125x125x125mm. If a part is thin enough, you can print it diagonally and get more length, bot not many things are skinny and long. So it's a printer limitation, not a bench size limitation, though my bench is a bit limited also.

I recognize there's a limitation -- it's obvious from the printers I've seen at the local maker house. But, I've based that assessment on the overall size of the printer "cube", not a close examination of how much USABLE space can be accessed by the printhead.

[I'm more interested in playing with their laser cutter, presently, as I have some panels that I need to fabricate -- with odd shaped holes]

As for as relocating the brick, I wanted it in the power supply to give it some weight.

Ah! That's a good point! And a good realization (instead of discovering it AFTER the fact!) I put rubber feet on things that "don't weigh enough" to keep them from sliding across the table as I push on their buttons or try to mate with their connectors. I put FELT feet on heavy things so I can drag them off of <whatever> as I prepare to lift them. (e.g., my disk shelfs have felt feet which means they will slide backwards as I engage disk sleds in them. So, I am constantly pulling them back into place)

I also can't stand cords everywhere.

Understandable. There are ~60 power cords plugged into the underside of my workbench. Of those, only four are for "bricks" (a pair of HP t620's and a pair of Surface Pro 3's). The alternative is to plug/unplug devices as I need them (which is a PITA).

There are plenty of benchtop power supply designs up on thingiverse with a remote brick. Plus, I have a bunch of these power supplies with broken cords. To fix them you pretty much have to break the case, and get a proprietary jack from china.

Understood. I merely offered it as an alternative.

3d printers are great for making custom mounting straps and hanging things. I have made a bunch of one-off hangers.

I'd need the places to HANG them! <frown>

It's true, I'm jealous of your rack mountable power supply. You know you can get rack rails pretty cheap, right? I bought a pair of these recently, they don't look quite 1/8" thick, but they are close. Definitely strong. I'd have no problem putting a rack in underneath my bench.

My office is REALLY dense. Attached a pic of the stuff under ONE of the workstations (boy, my photography skills don't seem to be improving!). There are three such benches arranged in a "U" -- I'm a bit OCD when it comes to symmetry and having "backups" of key pieces of equipment.

The two towers are Z800 workstations -- each has a dedicated UPS (though the UPS for the one on the left is elsewhere on the floor having its battery replaced). The large UPS on the left powers the three disk shelfs located just to the right of it. Cardboard boxes are spare disks -- you'll find them littered around the place (hoping to get this cleaned up before the next millenium!)

The cables hanging from the underside of the bench (a beige set, a black set, and another beige set) are mouse+keyboard+video for three "headless" machines located atop the bench in those general areas. This makes it easy to hook up a keyboard and monitor without having to crawl behind stuff to access those connectors on the machines themselves. There's a "free" monitor with a long cable on a swing arm just off the right edge of the photo so I can tether it to any of the headless machines in the office (there are probably 10 such candidates).

Just off to the right -- beyond the extent of the bench -- is the office laserjet sitting atop a T5220 server. Which, in turn, sits atop two 12-drive SAS shelfs. There's a 16 port switch attached to the underside of the bench just above the rightmost UPS to handle the hosts on that side of the office.

The top of the bench has the three headless machines (pushed way back to barely be accessible), a keyboard/mouse, a pair of 30" monitors (that float above the headless machines -- which is why they are so inaccessible!), a surface pro 3 (acts as my music player for that side of the room), a B-size scanner and a bunch of sh*t ^H^H^H really neat stuff :-/

I could possibly fit a power supply atop the three shelfs in the center of the photo -- but, then I'd have to find a place to store the spare disks! (the space above the big UPS is verbotten as it gets warm and there are magnetic fields, there.

And, a real rack would take up more space (esp depth!) than just stacking the devices does. Though using slides would make it easier to service those devices (to service a "lower shelf", I have to unload the drives from each of the shelfs above -- else they are too heavy to lift --- and then move them OFF the lower shelf).

Remember, there are two more similar photos! (I've got way too much stuff!)

In regards to LED testing, how do those power supplies operate in regards to CC/CV mode? Is current always limited, or can you turn it off? Does voltage float if CC mode is enabled?

The supplies try to deliver the rated voltage at UP TO the rated current. So, you guesstimate safe values for each. Then, watch the actual voltage and current (the display shows settings as well as actual). So, I goose the current limit until I don't see the voltage being limited and figure that's the maximum draw for the device.

Do the dual banana plugs have a standard spacing? I searched and found one that was 14mm on center. That's an easy one to implement (I think)

I've always assumed that to be the case. Many pieces of test equipment have their binding posts located at this separation. I'm guessing about 3/4inch (which is in the general ballpark of your figure -- I put the box back back up where it belongs so not easy to access... need a ladder to fetch it!)

Interesting idea. I think I'd rather the pot fail than be locked on high voltage, I'd have to see if that makes the buck converter go high or low.

That was the point that I was trying to make. While you are turning the pot, there is a possibility that the wiper can lose contact and "open". You need to know what that condition represents and how you might safeguard against it.

Or, ensure you don't have anything valuable connected to the supply WHILE you are adjusting it!

On a schematic, you will often see a pot (that is being used as a variable resistor, not a divider) with the "unused" end tied back to the wiper. Keep in mind that you put mechanical stress on it when you adjust it (think about trim pots that aren't designed for much use!)

BTW, I have seen some mention of being able to gang up power supplies if they have a ground plug. Do you know what the ground plug is connected to? Wall ground? Something else?[/QUOTE]

I think much depends on the design of the power supply. Some will share current. Others won't.

I tend to find a supply that is big enough for whatever job I have at hand (I have cartons of "bricks" to choose from).

I recently needed a BIG supply to power an electric wheelchair so pulled a pair of supplies out of a disk shelf -- ~80A+ at 12VDC -- and wired them in series to get the 24V I needed. But, they are designed with their "0V" signal tied to chassis/safety ground. So, I had to disassemble them to "float" their outputs
(else, tying the 12V output of the first supply to the 0V terminal of the second would effectively have tied the 12V of the first to the 0V of the second which is tied to the second's chassis ground which is tied, through the power cords, to the chassis ground of the first which is the 0V of the first! Ooops!)

But, that was a special use application and I'm willing to take the risks.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Ender 3D Printer but I am having problems with software help need

Interesting, I've gotten many 3D prints (FDM) that are actually water tight... Also got a few that were not. Depends on a lot of things.

I've mostly used Cura as it seems to do better (though not perfect) with the particular printer I'm using. Slic3r doesn't have a direct profile and people don't seem to care about it anymore in favor of the fork Prusaslicer instead :-(