Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Thank you for new knowledge !!

I haven't know much about engine before, this thread makes me learn many things

Since this circuit and cleaning tricks doing well, I'll be attach some veseline likes you'all suggest to prevent any future corrode.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Permatex sells a protectant for battery terminals that becomes rubbery and purple when dried. It's meant to be applied over 100% clean terminals, after they're tightened. OTOH if grease is used instead, it should be applied before assembly so it seals the gaps. The grease won't block current flow because the asperites on the posts and terminals pierce through the film.

[rhomanski]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Yes the beauty stuff. It's just petroleum jelly. It's clear and thin and melts to spread over the terminal. Anything that forms a seal will work. You just have to keep air water and everything else off the metal. Even grease will work but it's black and messy. A thin coat would mean about 1 or 2mm, the heat of the engine will make it spread out.

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

maintenance free battery couldn't refill as I thought, I have ever did it and no luck, battery still dead.

Hey, this circuit and cleaning trick gives me a good starter engine again, yesterday I was trying makes this caps and clean the battery (measured 12v on my meter) so I think this worth to try. and guess what? my engine didn't hard to start anymore. it just needed 1 times to start !! thank you for advicing.

Btw how it looks when you mean thin coat? veseline like skin beauty care veseline? correct me if wrong I don't know how it looks, I want to prevent this corotion again because this is annoyed me to have to clean it every 2-3 months.

[Turtlewax]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

There are some specialty batteries available that have high current and deep cycle but you pay a heft premium for them. Try the coiled cell lead acid batteries for best of both worlds.

[SeanB]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Hot water dissolves the baking soda better, and you use a stiff brush you no longer like to brush clean the whole top of the battery. Then rinse well with cold water and wipe dry with a clean paper towel.Battery posts clean to bright lead and same with terminals and leads. When attached use a can of battery terminal protector to coat them with a thin coat to keep them from corroding again. If you do not have this then wipe with a thin coat of vaseline over the outside of the terminal, though this will attract dust like magic. While you are there check battery water level and refill if needed with distilled water. If it is a "maintenance free" battery with a sticker on top pull the sticker off and then you will find the caps under to check water level, and it is likely to be low.

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Typical remedy is water and baking soda. I don't know what you imagine when someone says to clean the connectors, but when I (being someone who's restored/wrenched on cars for almost 20 years) tell someone to clean their connectors, what I mean is to disconnect them, get all the corrosion (white stuff) off with a wire brush if need be, then use a battery terminal cleaner to scratch the contact surfaces of both the post and the connector... of if all you have is a steel-bristle brush or the like then use that to scratch the contact surfaces. It makes a big difference! Don't put WD-40 on the surfaces. Make sure that the GROUND cable has a very solid, very clean connection at the other end--should be the frame of the bike.

Thank you for your reply
I don't have experience before so I don't know how to clean it well, btw hot water or just cold water from pipe? this knowledge is very useful. So we just clean it with wire brush and mix it with water and baking soda if hard to remove the connector?

[Logistics]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

white chemical oxidation looks like a salt(I don't know how to call this) on battery connector, makes the connector rusty (but still strong enough and hard to remove it with screwdriver), so I just using warm water to clean it and wipe with WD40, after 2-3 months that chemical reaction appear again.

Typical remedy is water and baking soda. I don't know what you imagine when someone says to clean the connectors, but when I (being someone who's restored/wrenched on cars for almost 20 years) tell someone to clean their connectors, what I mean is to disconnect them, get all the corrosion (white stuff) off with a wire brush if need be, then use a battery terminal cleaner to scratch the contact surfaces of both the post and the connector... of if all you have is a steel-bristle brush or the like then use that to scratch the contact surfaces. It makes a big difference! Don't put WD-40 on the surfaces. Make sure that the GROUND cable has a very solid, very clean connection at the other end--should be the frame of the bike.

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Ok. I just try to search any specifications on internet and find this, hope this give some idea for help me domas

I can't see any pdf file to upload so please forgive me if you have to takes a time to open and read the site. the bottom site is my country site so it needed to translate. thank you very much for your attention.

http://spinningblueorb.blogspot.com/...tails-and.html

http://motorspec.blogspot.com/2009/0...isc-brake.html

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

thank you for video suggestion, I will see that.

Just do the math like i did, calculate the needed energy for starting the engine, measure the current or something. Check the starter motor, or at least its fuse if it has one, to find out how powerful it is. Or please state the model of your motorcycle, somebody will be able to find it in the internets.

Just an idea: it sounds that there is some problem with fuel/air mixture, timing, carb/injection system, compression.. I mean, if it takes long time to start the motorcycle, 4-6 starter cycles is a lot, then it might be that the battery is not a core problem, it is more a victim of a problem.

How does it start if you charge you battery with mains charger and try to start it just instantly after that?

That's good idea, i will find my model and data of motorcycle. I think the battery were defective because it has white chemical oxidation looks like a salt(I don't know how to call this) on battery connector, makes the connector rusty (but still strong enough and hard to remove it with screwdriver), so I just using warm water to clean it and wipe with WD40, after 2-3 months that chemical reaction appear again.

[domas]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

that's normal friend


How to find it? maybe dumb question but what parameter that I should look?



Yes, the battery is small one and my daily vehicle. I don't think that would work if just a 100000uF exhange with battery.


I have problem already from this battery which hard to start. it needs 4-5 times to push starter button before start. So I think to buy a new battery and makes this capacitor bank to prevent further problem like this, to prolong it and as current booster to makes it easier start (somebody mention capacitor bank could be), but the question is what values or what circuit is the best for my application?

it has access ports to acid inside, so we should fill the battery liquid periodically to makes it longer life.

Just do the math like i did, calculate the needed energy for starting the engine, measure the current or something. Check the starter motor, or at least its fuse if it has one, to find out how powerful it is. Or please state the model of your motorcycle, somebody will be able to find it in the internets.

Just an idea: it sounds that there is some problem with fuel/air mixture, timing, carb/injection system, compression.. I mean, if it takes long time to start the motorcycle, 4-6 starter cycles is a lot, then it might be that the battery is not a core problem, it is more a victim of a problem.

How does it start if you charge you battery with mains charger and try to start it just instantly after that?

[ben7]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

You can replace a car battery with a super capacitor bank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM

LOL the chickens in the background, I them to be funny creatures :P

11 bucks on digikey?! I'm almost tempted to get a few of them myself! :O

I still worry about the lifetime of them. Maybe better to put them under the car, so theoretically they would stay a bit cooler.

[tom66]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

You can replace a car battery with a super capacitor bank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

OOOOOOK, now i see what are we talking about.

And yes, i have made a mistake with calculating Farads. My bad

that's normal friend

So if it is a motorcycle engine so it is way less amps/watts/farads, you have to find it out yourself :-) That makes things much easier.

How to find it? maybe dumb question but what parameter that I should look?

The battery you are talking about is a small one, but is probably enough for your application. Is it your daily vehicle? Short, long distances between starts? It would also be interesting to see how would it work with a capacitor only, no battery

Yes, the battery is small one and my daily vehicle. I don't think that would work if just a 100000uF exhange with battery.

Are you trying to prevent a problem or you already have a problem starting it?
Is your battery sealed lead acid or do you have access ports to acid inside?

I have problem already from this battery which hard to start. it needs 4-5 times to push starter button before start. So I think to buy a new battery and makes this capacitor bank to prevent further problem like this, to prolong it and as current booster to makes it easier start (somebody mention capacitor bank could be), but the question is what values or what circuit is the best for my application?

it has access ports to acid inside, so we should fill the battery liquid periodically to makes it longer life.

[domas]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

OOOOOOK, now i see what are we talking about.

And yes, i have made a mistake with calculating Farads. My bad

So if it is a motorcycle engine so it is way less amps/watts/farads, you have to find it out yourself :-) That makes things much easier.

The battery you are talking about is a small one, but is probably enough for your application. Is it your daily vehicle? Short, long distances between starts? It would also be interesting to see how would it work with a capacitor only, no battery

Are you trying to prevent a problem or you already have a problem starting it?

Is your battery sealed lead acid or do you have access ports to acid inside?

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

1. Well my thoughts are theoretical as well. So take it with a grain of salt as I have no experience with that.

2. Well, the ending up in smoke thing is more as a precaution for you to make sure that you use cables, caps, and connectors that are capable of transferring the current. What some of us were trying to say is that we did not agree with the idea of using different small caps, we would rather use few big ones (as the idea we agree with is to use it as current booster) instead of using it to smoothen the ripple. And yes whatever the configuration is, make sure they can transfer enough current.

3. as we all know lead-acid batteries have limited service life. And at some point you just have to get a new one or a better used one if that is what you prefer. But you can still try desulphating it or using epsom salt - this will give extra lifetime, but it will not magically fix it.

4. 100000 uF (100F) caps, is it a single unit or a capacitor bank? if it is 12/16V i guess it is pretty big.

5 Regarding 200Amp starter motor yes it is comon for diesel engines. Mine is 1.8kW, so you do the math: 1800/12 = 150A but it is a small engine. But again don't expect the motor to work on that load constantly... that is the very starting point at very worst conditions.. Why do you thing an average car battery is something like 540A en (capability of starting current) with 75Ah of capacity @ 12V
Thats an example of my diesel starter: http://www.iauto.lt/vag/VW/Golf_81/G...s_ID=100068496 as you can see it is under position (1) and it is 1.8kW

...and a petrol one: http://www.niparts.com/Graphics/full...%5C1739536.jpg

But please post some details of the application you want to use it for. Engine, size, compression, fuel, vehicle type, what battery do you have now, and so on.

Will be happy to help

As I said friend, that 100000 uF (100F)caps is a capacitor bank (maybe made from different radial lead uF caps), not just a few of big can caps from Farad value. Yes, I'm agree with you to makes this as current booster, smoothing the ripple is just bonus.

correct me if I am wrong, didn't uF is 10-6 so 100000uF = 0.1F? I am really beginner on vehicle engine so I don't know what details to post. I don't know the power of my engine like yours is 1.8kW, my battery maybe is not as big as you think.

the battery label detail is 12V capacity 3.5Ah / 10Hr, engine size on 110cc, my engine is use petrol. this is motorbike. I think to try this capacitor bank first on motorbike since I don't hope my battery will be fixed I will buy a new battery and try this capacitor bank. So the connector I have using must be capable for the current flow, I am understand.

[domas]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

1. Well my thoughts are theoretical as well. So take it with a grain of salt as I have no experience with that.

2. Well, the ending up in smoke thing is more as a precaution for you to make sure that you use cables, caps, and connectors that are capable of transferring the current. What some of us were trying to say is that we did not agree with the idea of using different small caps, we would rather use few big ones (as the idea we agree with is to use it as current booster) instead of using it to smoothen the ripple. And yes whatever the configuration is, make sure they can transfer enough current.

3. as we all know lead-acid batteries have limited service life. And at some point you just have to get a new one or a better used one if that is what you prefer. But you can still try desulphating it or using epsom salt - this will give extra lifetime, but it will not magically fix it.

4. 100000 uF (100F) caps, is it a single unit or a capacitor bank? if it is 12/16V i guess it is pretty big.

5 Regarding 200Amp starter motor yes it is comon for diesel engines. Mine is 1.8kW, so you do the math: 1800/12 = 150A but it is a small engine. But again don't expect the motor to work on that load constantly... that is the very starting point at very worst conditions.. Why do you thing an average car battery is something like 540A en (capability of starting current) with 75Ah of capacity @ 12V
Thats an example of my diesel starter: http://www.iauto.lt/vag/VW/Golf_81/G...s_ID=100068496 as you can see it is under position (1) and it is 1.8kW

...and a petrol one: http://www.niparts.com/Graphics/full...%5C1739536.jpg

But please post some details of the application you want to use it for. Engine, size, compression, fuel, vehicle type, what battery do you have now, and so on.

Will be happy to help

[senz_90]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

It seems like I have to read some knowledge more about battery and engine.

I didn't sure enough I am understand from domas calculate and said. "4*10F can caps would do but it will most likely end up in smoke". something that afraid me. I have try asking my local store about can caps since I haven't experience before so I am not buy it yet. would can caps better than the circuit I am upload? So i have to makes 40 Farad caps from big can caps to make this as current booster?
200A is for starter engine?

Ben7, I dont want to use 85C caps too, it would likely die than before my battery. So you think a few big can caps will suite?
Logistics, I have try clean all connections with warm water and oil it with WD40 to prevent oxidizes, but it seems like my battery near his end of life and I have to buy new one. I just confuse what is the better use for caps? can caps or common radial caps?

I have search site published from my country person to sell this caps bank. They make this caps around 100000 uF for car (common), maybe there is little than this, someone makes it more uF (more expensive too). I am never see they make this on Farad value, so what is the better?

[budm]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

Car alternator is 3-phase variable frequency system for low ripple.

[ben7]

Re: Capacitor bank on vehicle battery

I doubt those caps will do anything significant -- if you want a substantial effect you need to use capacitors on the order of hundreds of farads.

I second that. There is no need for a ton of 4.7uF caps either. Just a few big can-style caps.

All of these components and the battery are designed to withstand this and typically this doesn't pose much of a problem. Ripple on a battery won't cause significant harm unless the ripple is extreme.

And... I'm not sure how much ripple there would be, but you'd have to be sure that it won't be over-stressing the caps.

And, if you were to use can-style caps, they are almost all rated at 85C... not good enough for an engine compartment in my opinion.