How do I make this AC fan run?

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  • Behemot
    Badcaps Legend
    • Dec 2009
    • 4845
    • CZ

    #1

    How do I make this AC fan run?

    I got this huge fan from outter part of a splitted air conditioner unit. It is 60W mains fan with four wires (orange, red, blue, black)+ground.

    The problem is, I don't know how to make it run without the AC, just on mains. There is some schematic on it, I think it actually needs the capacitor to create phase difference (I can go and get it, that is no problem) but still, where do I connect what? I mean, for one phase (230 V) I got only neutral and phase (plus ground) and here are four connection points.

    I can experiment with safety balast (100 W lightbulb in series), in fact, I already did and failed to make it spin…
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Behemot; 08-11-2013, 02:24 PM.
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  • Mrx3750
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Jul 2013
    • 311
    • USA

    #2
    Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

    Three phase motor?

    Comment

    • Behemot
      Badcaps Legend
      • Dec 2009
      • 4845
      • CZ

      #3
      Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

      That would be 380 V labeled, no? This is labeled as 220 V which implies single phase if I am not mistaken…or not?

      This says single-phase (different power but basically the same motor).
      Last edited by Behemot; 08-11-2013, 02:33 PM.
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      • goontron
        5000!
        • Dec 2011
        • 4108
        • US

        #4
        Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

        where i live 220v is 2 phase hot to hot
        Last edited by goontron; 08-11-2013, 02:48 PM.
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        Comment

        • Behemot
          Badcaps Legend
          • Dec 2009
          • 4845
          • CZ

          #5
          Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

          It is phase to neutral here, 400 V 3-phase combined (triangle or star)

          I think I got it, there was another schematic hidden in the AC. The red and orange are purely for the capacitor, that leaves black and blue for phase and neutral.

          Works like charm now

          ADD// This is some ass kicking airflow! Now I just need to wire some grill on that as I would not want to stick anything into this thing while running
          Last edited by Behemot; 08-11-2013, 03:40 PM.
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          • budm
            Badcaps Legend
            • Feb 2010
            • 40746
            • USA

            #6
            Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

            Just Google that model number.
            This is what I get by searching using the model number on the fan as shown in the picture. See here:

            See page spec used in CSS-70H3A-W**ASA pgae77, 78. Hook up Diagram page 83
            Attached Files
            Last edited by budm; 08-11-2013, 04:47 PM.
            Never stop learning
            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

            Inverter testing using old CFL:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

            TV Factory reset codes listing:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

            Comment

            • Behemot
              Badcaps Legend
              • Dec 2009
              • 4845
              • CZ

              #7
              Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

              I did and found nothing, but anyway, I made it running already…in process of making grill cover for the fan now.

              Seems that the horrible thing has airflow of ~4000-5000 m^3/h. I think I'll ad some capacitor in series in time
              Last edited by Behemot; 08-11-2013, 04:48 PM.
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              • eccerr0r
                Solder Sloth
                • Nov 2012
                • 8694
                • USA

                #8
                Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                A bit late now but this seems like it's a typical induction motor, and the capacitor is necessary to get it spinning (and generate some torque).

                Comment

                • Behemot
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 4845
                  • CZ

                  #9
                  Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                  I thought it's there to bring the PF closer to 1…
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                  • sam_sam_sam
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Jul 2011
                    • 6032
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                    One real quick think if this motor in not being used in an AC unit and you are using as a fan you need to check the ampage on the black wire and it should not be higher than .70 amps or you will over heat this motor real fast

                    In a past life I use to be AC tech

                    Comment

                    • Behemot
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 4845
                      • CZ

                      #11
                      Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                      I don't know but it is making incredible airflow, should not it be able to keep itself cool pretty easily? It is already mounted and plugged in…I can cut part of the original insulation and measure the wires with my clamp meter though. Or I may use wattmeter. Let's just see how noisy it is, I want to sleep while running it not far away, if it will be too much, I'll add an X capacitor in series to bring the speed down which will also limit the current little bit.
                      Last edited by Behemot; 08-12-2013, 05:28 PM.
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                      • tom66
                        EVs Rule
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 32560
                        • UK

                        #12
                        Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                        The capacitor is used to start and run the motor, to provide a phase shift, not for power factor. Power factor would have cap across live and neutral.
                        Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                        For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                        Comment

                        • budm
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 40746
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                          It is rated at 150W, fixed speed of 850 +/-20 RPM.
                          http://www.smartclima.com/air-conditioner-fan-motor.htm
                          Never stop learning
                          Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                          Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                          Inverter testing using old CFL:
                          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                          Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                          http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                          TV Factory reset codes listing:
                          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                          Comment

                          • Behemot
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 4845
                            • CZ

                            #14
                            Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                            Yes?
                            Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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                            Comment

                            • redwire
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 3902
                              • Canada

                              #15
                              Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                              As you suggest, you can put a capacitor in series with the mains (not to be confused with the 4uF start winding phase-shift capacitor) to slow the fan down. I don't recommend it because you can get resonance with the motor and mains cap sometimes, and it also is pretty sparky on the power switch.

                              Chinese fans, since copper is expensive, will use the fewest turns on the windings...

                              Comment

                              • Behemot
                                Badcaps Legend
                                • Dec 2009
                                • 4845
                                • CZ

                                #16
                                Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                                I have actually cracked it open, seemed OK to me. I have seen much smaller 150W+ motors.
                                Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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                                • Behemot
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Dec 2009
                                  • 4845
                                  • CZ

                                  #17
                                  Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                                  I measured the current, it takes slightly over 0,8 A, meter shows 200 W or so. The motor does get somewhat hot when I turn it down and is only slightly warm under operation so I think it gets hot inside and cools itself down from outside when spinning. I think it also moves unneccesarilly much air for my use.

                                  What capacitance do you think I should use in series to reduce to aprox. 2/3 the speed?
                                  Last edited by Behemot; 08-13-2013, 05:09 PM.
                                  Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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                                  Comment

                                  • redwire
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Dec 2010
                                    • 3902
                                    • Canada

                                    #18
                                    Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                                    To slow down the fan using a series capacitor, it's really hard without knowing the reactance and even then some fans run the flux density really high.
                                    I guess 8-10uF as a starting point, at mains voltage.
                                    I would use a bigger motor starting-cap, like the oil-can types.
                                    It's important that they have a (internal) bleeder resistor as this size cap can bite.

                                    Comment

                                    • Behemot
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Dec 2009
                                      • 4845
                                      • CZ

                                      #19
                                      Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                                      Man that's huge Bigger starting cap, well, how much bigger?

                                      ADD// what about making the startup cap smaller? That may reduce the phase shift thus run it slower, no?

                                      ADD2// so using 2,2 uF as a startup cap makes it run slower enough…takes 190 watts than, same current but PF drops to 0,91
                                      Last edited by Behemot; 08-13-2013, 07:52 PM.
                                      Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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                                      • Behemot
                                        Badcaps Legend
                                        • Dec 2009
                                        • 4845
                                        • CZ

                                        #20
                                        Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

                                        There is 50 °C on top of the motor while operational and 60 °C while trned off. So even if there was 65-70 °C inside when running, I don't about you, but I call that OK for 24/7 operation.
                                        Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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