Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

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  • dood
    Deputy dood
    • Mar 2004
    • 2462
    • USA

    #1

    Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

    I'm currently working on a dead cash register - Sharp XE-A106. Absolutely no output from the transformer. The register powers up if I hook it to my 12v DC bench supply. I'm just a little confused at what I should buy as a replacement. The bench supply that I have provides up to 3a, and the register works fine off of that.

    The original transformer has the following markings:

    HKSP-041461
    Input: 120VAC 60Hz
    HEC-0910C

    I haven't been able to find out any other information using those numbers.

    Right next to where the lead plugs into the register itself, it's silkscreened - "UL/CSA/PSE T1.25A/125v"

    So, a little help picking out a replacement transformer would be great, if you please!
    Ludicrous gibs!

  • Th3_uN1Qu3
    Believe in
    • Jul 2010
    • 6031
    • Romania

    #2
    Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

    The silkscreen likely talks about the fuse. Just hook an amp meter in series with your bench supply and see how much output it takes. Then get a laptop power brick or something... some LCD monitors use external 12v bricks, one of those will work nicely with it. Ebay time.
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
    A working TV? How boring!

    Comment

    • dood
      Deputy dood
      • Mar 2004
      • 2462
      • USA

      #3
      Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

      I'm seeing a peak draw of 0.02A when the receipt printer is running. Steady draw of 0.01. This is according to my clamp meter. Does this seem right?

      I was able to power it off of a 12v 1a power adaptor from an old set of speakers...
      Last edited by dood; 09-23-2011, 03:31 PM.
      Ludicrous gibs!

      Comment

      • Th3_uN1Qu3
        Believe in
        • Jul 2010
        • 6031
        • Romania

        #4
        Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

        I'd expect a tad more, maybe your clamp meter isn't accurate at low voltages. But sure, one of those doesn't use much power. Sounds like any random wall wart could take care of it.
        Originally posted by PeteS in CA
        Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
        A working TV? How boring!

        Comment

        • kaboom
          "Oh, Grouchy!"
          • Jan 2011
          • 2507
          • USA

          #5
          Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

          Was there any possibility that the register was plugged into an outlet on a miswired circuit?

          208Y/120 is common for computers/recep/"small stuff" distribution in larger buildings. This will be supplied from a step down transformer if the building's service is 480Y/277 or 480D. Older areas may have 240D/120 service, with a 'high-leg' that is 208V above the grounded center tap on the 'lighting' pot.


          Once in a while, a '120V' ckt is tied in to the high leg, and things like radios, cash registers, clocks, computers, etc blow up before the error is found.

          Same thing can happen if the 120 ckt is put across two phases in a 208Y system, although the noodle will then be 120V above ground.

          Speaking of the neutral, any brightening lights when heavy loads picked up?

          It doesn't take much to kill those little transformers...

          Where was the clamp on? AC input to the power supply you tested with, or DC output to the register? Even if it was on the line side, 20mA at 120V is only 2.4VA. Use the 10A function in the meter instead- that's too little load for the clamp on.

          -Paul

          Edit- Does the primary of the dead wall-wart show continuity?
          "pokemon go... to hell!"

          EOL it...
          Originally posted by shango066
          All style and no substance.
          Originally posted by smashstuff30
          guilty,guilty,guilty,guilty!
          guilty of being cheap-made!

          Comment

          • dood
            Deputy dood
            • Mar 2004
            • 2462
            • USA

            #6
            Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

            To answer your questions - this register comes from my local brewpub. These registers often see less than ideal conditions (beer spills etc). I found no evidence of liquid damage, even in the keys.

            I can't comment on the power situation there, as I'm not familiar with it. There may be 3 phase power coming in to the building, as this used to be a bread bakery. It may have also had new service run into it... I'm not sure.

            When I was measuring the draw, the clamp was on the DC output of my bench supply. It may not even be designed to measure DC draw.

            The transformer reads open on the primary side, closed on the secondary.
            Last edited by dood; 09-23-2011, 06:19 PM.
            Ludicrous gibs!

            Comment

            • Evil Lurker
              Warranty Voider
              • Feb 2011
              • 454

              #7
              Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

              Go to your local goodwill store and pilfer thru their electronics section. Try and find a regulated 12v switch mode wall wart. Heck about anything out there should be able to power the register. I commonly see them rated at .5 to 1 amp for such things like routers and what not.

              Comment

              • dood
                Deputy dood
                • Mar 2004
                • 2462
                • USA

                #8
                Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                I would kind of like to replace the internal transformer, versus using an outboard wall wart or other supply. Keep that stock look, and not have to worry about careless employees ripping the smaller wire to shreds.
                Ludicrous gibs!

                Comment

                • bluto
                  Badcaps Veteran
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 560

                  #9
                  Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                  Post a picture. Someone may be able to cross it to one in digikey's catalog. I have had some success replacing a transformer in that manner before.

                  Comment

                  • dood
                    Deputy dood
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 2462
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                    I'm going to talk to the owner tomorrow... he has several registers with misc problems (mostly bad keys due to beer spillage). He just gave me this one to start. He may just want me to scavenge a transformer from one of the other registers, vs buying a replacement xformer.
                    Ludicrous gibs!

                    Comment

                    • b700029
                      Banned
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 640

                      #11
                      Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                      Originally posted by dood
                      I would kind of like to replace the internal transformer, versus using an outboard wall wart or other supply. Keep that stock look, and not have to worry about careless employees ripping the smaller wire to shreds.
                      You can also buy an external supply of appropriate size, un-case it, and install it in place of the original transformer. As SMPS are smaller for a given power output compared to a linear supply, this should be easy to do.

                      Comment

                      • Evil Lurker
                        Warranty Voider
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 454

                        #12
                        Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                        Originally posted by b700029
                        You can also buy an external supply of appropriate size, un-case it, and install it in place of the original transformer. As SMPS are smaller for a given power output compared to a linear supply, this should be easy to do.
                        Yup take a hacksaw to one corner till you just bareley get thru the casing an then finish the job by prying it open with a screwdriver.

                        Done many a wall wart like that.

                        Comment

                        • Toasty
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 4171

                          #13
                          Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                          Single output or center tapped? I think I have a couple 1 or 2 amp ones in the "cabinet". lol

                          Pic and sizes.
                          veritas odium parit

                          Comment

                          • Krankshaft
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 2328
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                            Block plane blade between the case halves hit the end of it with a hammer cracks even the most stubborn cases open with very little damage and you can even glue it back shut if need be when you're done.

                            If you can't scavenge another transformer this is a site I go to they have tons of electronics stuff. The prices are pretty good too.

                            Here is their transformer page:

                            http://www.mpja.com/products.asp?dept=45

                            A 12V transformer at 1 amp is only $3.95. You just have to check if the original is center tapped or not if there is a bridge rectifier (4 diodes) it's not center tapped if it's a full wave rectifier (2 diodes) it's center tapped.

                            I get tons of open frame switchers at this site for projects dirt cheap we're talking under 8 dollars each. Some do require recaps due to crap caps but they're well designed on the input side and not gutless wonders.
                            Last edited by Krankshaft; 09-24-2011, 07:52 PM.
                            Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

                            Comment

                            • dood
                              Deputy dood
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 2462
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                              It's a single output, not center tapped. The owner just gave me a 2nd register to scavenge the transformer out of. He has 4 total registers and wants two working out of the bunch. The one he gave me to scavenge has a few dead keys. We're on a short time schedule, as Oktoberfest begins on Thursday, and he needs as many registers up as possible. Otherwise, I'd be ordering a xformer to fix this one, and figure out the others. I may still do that, but for now, it's going to be pick-a-part central here
                              Ludicrous gibs!

                              Comment

                              • Toasty
                                Badcaps Legend
                                • Jul 2007
                                • 4171

                                #16
                                Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                                Aww, come on man. WE LIKE PICTURES!!

                                Electronics pron!
                                veritas odium parit

                                Comment

                                • dood
                                  Deputy dood
                                  • Mar 2004
                                  • 2462
                                  • USA

                                  #17
                                  Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                                  Originally posted by Toasty
                                  Aww, come on man. WE LIKE PICTURES!!

                                  Electronics pron!
                                  Fine, fine...


                                  The register in question


                                  The xformer, as its mounted on the chassis.


                                  Input/output of the xformer. Obviously, I already clipped the output wires.


                                  The main board. Uses UCC Caps to filter.
                                  Ludicrous gibs!

                                  Comment

                                  • Toasty
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Jul 2007
                                    • 4171

                                    #18
                                    Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                                    Ooooooo! Battery Backup!

                                    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sharp-Elec...EA106/13728219

                                    This one doesn't *cough* work. *cough* *cough*


                                    Looks like you have plenty of room to work with, so size is not critical.

                                    Thanks for the pics!
                                    Last edited by Toasty; 09-25-2011, 10:22 AM.
                                    veritas odium parit

                                    Comment

                                    • ReverendJones
                                      Resurgam
                                      • May 2010
                                      • 49

                                      #19
                                      Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                                      There really should be a fuse between the power cord and the transformer. It would appear that the factory tried to save a few cents by omitting it.

                                      There is a possibility that the transformer has a blown internal fuse on the primary that can be bypassed. For an example of this see: http://www.geek-republic.com/2011/09...-hdr-1-repair/
                                      Machina improba! Vel mihi ede potum vel mihi redde nummos meos!

                                      Comment

                                      • dood
                                        Deputy dood
                                        • Mar 2004
                                        • 2462
                                        • USA

                                        #20
                                        Re: Cheap cash register with a dead transformer

                                        Originally posted by Toasty
                                        Ooooooo! Battery Backup!

                                        http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sharp-Elec...EA106/13728219

                                        This one doesn't *cough* work. *cough* *cough*


                                        Looks like you have plenty of room to work with, so size is not critical.

                                        Thanks for the pics!
                                        Battery backup only holds up the memory of the register... the register will not continue to work without AC power. Useful so you don't lose preprogrammed tax rates, etc.
                                        Ludicrous gibs!

                                        Comment

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