Still problems with Hakko 936?

[jfcarbel]

In FAQ it states:
(we are getting some reports about the hakko 936 being difficult to use for capacitor replacement due to not great heating

I just bought this one based on great reviews I see on the internet. I am wondering if the older manf. dates had issues and this has since been corrected?

BTW- A good FAQ entry might be what common cap sizes and types one should keep around that are very common in repairs.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

Hakko 926 & 936 work great for mobo work.
[Electrically the same. Different plastics.]
.

[willawake]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

i think those reports from users who didnt know what they were doing

[shovenose]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

Oh great. (sarcasm)

So it is ok for psu work right? Because im going to get one soon. And i want to make sure itll work!

[yyonline]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

I have the 937. The 936/937 are identical spec-wise, so I'd expect they would perform similarly. It can sometimes take awhile to heat up some boards with lots of copper planes, but I haven't yet run into anything on a motherboard it won't solder... I have the medium sized iron, and usually use a 2.4mm chisel tip for cap work. The smaller tips don't hold enough heat for multilayer boards. Overall I'd highly recommend the 937 (and by its similarity the 936).

Edit: for PSU work, which are usually single layer boards, it solders things instantaneously.

[Deft]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

I will testify that the Hakko 936 is a-ok for cap replacement. I'm in agreement with willawake about some people not knowing what they are doing.

[bigbeark]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

I will testify that the Hakko 936 is a-ok for cap replacement. I'm in agreement with willawake about some people not knowing what they are doing.

As one of those who experienced some difficulties with the 936, and therefore don't know what I'm doing, let me clarify.

You need the medium-sized chisel tip, the pointed ones won't cut it.

It is extremely important to keep the tip really clean. The tip surface is some kind of cast iron (?) and you must get it really clean, some people use brass or aluminum sink scrubber (Kurly Kate) to remove the oxidation. You then "tin" the tip with your solder at full heat. Then you turn down the heat to the temperature that works for you on your particular board. Fequently clean the tip with the wet sponge.

Try to use solder with lead in it. A lot of the ROHS stuff does not flow well.

Apply some new solder on top of the old solder, then heat the pins to remove the caps. Applying new solder first really helps the old stuff melt.

Multi-layer PCBs really suck up the heat, and you need all the power the 936 can muster on these boards.


The 936 is an excellent unit, now available at lower prices. It is the minimum iron I would consider for motherboard work

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

As one of those who experienced some difficulties with the 936, and therefore don't know what I'm doing, let me clarify.

You need the medium-sized chisel tip, the pointed ones won't cut it.

It is extremely important to keep the tip really clean. The tip surface is some kind of cast iron (?) and you must get it really clean, some people use brass or aluminum sink scrubber (Kurly Kate) to remove the oxidation. You then "tin" the tip with your solder at full heat. Then you turn down the heat to the temperature that works for you on your particular board. Fequently clean the tip with the wet sponge.

Try to use solder with lead in it. A lot of the ROHS stuff does not flow well.

Apply some new solder on top of the old solder, then heat the pins to remove the caps. Applying new solder first really helps the old stuff melt.

Multi-layer PCBs really suck up the heat, and you need all the power the 936 can muster on these boards.


The 936 is an excellent unit, now available at lower prices. It is the minimum iron I would consider for motherboard work

Those difficulties are the same with any kind of iron.

""you need all the power the 936 can muster on these boards.""
I haven't experienced this at all and I have three units.
There are three iron/handle options for 926/936. - #900[ ],, #907[ ],, #908[ ]
For mobos you want the middle one which is #907[ ].

If you have the 907 perhaps your heating element is defective or worn out.
Replacement elements are available and so are complete handle assemblies.
Complete assemblies are usually the better deal.

I took the risk a few months ago and got some new 907 handles from here.
http://www.vendio.com/stores/cantonm...ir/lid=2873570
Shipping was free. Ship time 2-3 weeks to USA.
I was afraid they were going to be cheap knock-offs but when they got here they are genuine Hakko.
[The included tip is a pointed one and it sux. Get a chisel tip. Chisel tips are better no matter what kind of iron.]

Also, after I bought those a couple ebay sellers dropped their price on them.
Might be better deals on ebay now.

.

[severach]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

Apply some new solder on top of the old solder, then heat the pins to remove the caps. Applying new solder first really helps the old stuff melt.

It's not the solder that makes the old solder melt so well. It's the flux that comes with the new solder. I apply flux to all the joints to desolder which allows the work to be done with much less heat. This makes small irons much more effective and the tips stay clean.

Before fluxing the solder that was easy to remove was the solder that still had some flux inside. The clean solder was tough. Now it's all easy.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

Actually it does help.
Lead-Free solder has a higher melting point than Leaded solder.
A blob of melted solder carries the heat to the joint faster than just the tip and when the solders mix [Leading the Lead-Free] it lowers the over-all melting point of the joint.
.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

It is extremely important to keep the tip really clean.

When solder won't melt even when pressed against the tip, the tip may need cleaning. It happened to me a few times with my adjustable 10-60W iron with no temperature regulation.

The Goot PX-201 is slightly cheaper than the Hakko 936, can put out 40% more power, and is slightly cheaper.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

"40% more power."
Nope. - Spec games in ads...

It says 70 watt 'consumption'.
That's at the wall socket, not watts of the element.
They don't even list the watts for the element.

For a 936 Hakko states consumption is 60 watts and 50 watts at the element.

70 watts vs 60 watts is not 40%.

Goot looks to be largely Hakko knock-offs so I imagine in reality they are the same element. I don't have a problem with knock-offs as long as you know what you are getting and Goot doesn't give up the watts for the element....

The other thing is the Goot tips apparently run $5.50-$8.50 each [+ shipping].
Hakko tips are around $2.00-$2.50 each [with shipping] if you shop.

I wonder if Hakko tips fit Goot??
That might be Goot for the Goat to know..
.

[Krankshaft]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

You've got to be careful with knock off iron companies too.

Hakko uses printed ceramic heating elements. They are more efficient (you get more heat from less current) and they have faster thermal recovery than wire wound elements.

They are a bit more expensive to manufacture and more complex to produce. Which is why you won't find Chinamart using them.

Nothings cheaper to manufacture than a wire wound element which is basically a Nichrome wire wrapped around a piece of ceramic.

I remember some Hakko knockoffs I found awhile back they looked just like the real thing accept they had crappy wire wound elements that died prematurely. To make matters worse Hakko elements didn't work with the station because the temperature detecting thermistor which is fused inside the ceramic element had a different resistance.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

That's a very good point.

I did look for that and the Goot does 'claim' it is a ceramic element so I didn't mention it.
I think I had to look at replacement element ads to find that claim though.
.

[severach]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

Actually it does help..

Solder in the joint is little to no help. No mixing happens until the solder melts and the part is moved. Work is complete and the solder was late to the party.

The flux on the part interacts with the solder on the gun to provide rapid heat transfer. Each part steals a bit of solder so the gun needs to be refilled occasionally. Desoldering a large number of parts requires only a small amount of solder. Solder on the part is wasteful, worthless, and results in poor quality work.

[willawake]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

goot is not hakko knockoffs. if you see their products they are very well made and expensive too. if you see very cheap goot products like the solder accessories they are counterfeit.

goot PX-201 is not the competitor to Hakko 936. PX-201 is intended as a portable soldering station, this is clear with the heat insulation cap included.

goot PX-501 is probably 936 competitor
http://gsmserver.com/shop/equipment/...ng_station.php

by the way that is european site not us

in the end hakko has much better distribution and indeed USA branch. they are both old jap companies.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

Solder in the joint is little to no help.

You are the only one I've run into that has difficulty with the technique.
Works great for most everyone else.
- That's why it gets brought up so often.

No mixing happens until the solder melts and the part is moved. Work is complete and the solder was late to the party.

First sentence true. - Second one not.
Through hole joints are not 'instantaneously apart' as soon as the solder melts. There is a little working things around that has to go on. The mixed solder not only RE-melts faster switching from + to - lead as you rock the cap out, it keeps the solder melted longer when you are bouncing back and forth like that.

The flux on the part interacts with the solder on the gun to provide rapid heat transfer.

Melted solder does rapid heat transfer much better than flux.

Flux does not mix with solder, it floats on top like oil on water.
It's job is to carry oxidation out of the solder and prevent O2 from getting into the solder.
It is deliberately made to NOT mix and heat drives it out so it isn't going to affect anything except the surface layer of the solder.
Adding some leaded solder gets lead to ALL the solder in the joint once it melts.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

I don't know 'who's on top' but Goot and Hakko are definitely knock-offs of each other.

Too many of their products [and design details of others] are identical to say otherwise.

The 'idea stealing' probably bounces back and forth like Gigabyte and Asus.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

Does anyone in the USA actually HAVE a Goot [or other knock-off] with the same tip style as a Hakko 907 iron?

We can swap some measurements and if it looks good I'll mail you a Hakko tip I don't like and the question as to tip interchangeability will be answered.

Because it's one I don't like anyway, you can either keep the tip or mail it to someone else with some make/model where tip interchangeability with Hakko is a question.

.
.

[japlytic]

Re: Still problems with Hakko 936?

You've got to be careful with knock off iron companies too.

I remember some Hakko knockoffs I found awhile back they looked just like the real thing accept they had crappy wire wound elements that died prematurely. To make matters worse Hakko elements didn't work with the station because the temperature detecting thermistor which is fused inside the ceramic element had a different resistance.

I've seen Sunko soldering stations in Australia (don't wish to enquire where!) and if I remember correctly, the Sunko text was similar to the Hakko text.