Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

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  • Kong
    Member
    • Jul 2010
    • 19

    #1

    Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

    Is it possible for a malfunctioning power supply (PSU) to be the direct cause of blown capacitors on a motherboard?

    For instance, say a computer is in use and suddenly the PSU malfunctions and the computer shuts down. Upon inspection it is found that the PSU is no longer functioning and there are some blown capacitors on the motherboard, but there is no direct evidence as to when the capictors actually blew out as it could have happened before the PSU malfunctioned. What would you suspect in this instance?
  • toastygoodness
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Jul 2005
    • 813
    • United States

    #2
    Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

    they most certainly can. bestec psu's are known to explode motherboards and hard drives.

    Comment

    • Kong
      Member
      • Jul 2010
      • 19

      #3
      Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

      Originally posted by toastygoodness
      they most certainly can. bestec psu's are known to explode motherboards and hard drives.
      Are you aware of any other brands that might be have what's considered to be good reputations but have been known to cause similar issues?

      Comment

      • 370forlife
        Large Marge
        • Aug 2008
        • 3112
        • United States

        #4
        Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

        older antecs

        Older sirtec/high power builds (older enlights, jeantech)

        Lots others.

        Comment

        • momaka
          master hoarder
          • May 2008
          • 12164
          • Bulgaria

          #5
          Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

          Originally posted by toastygoodness
          bestec psu's are known to explode motherboards and hard drives.
          Well, you shouldn't really say that Bestec made the motherboards explode. Actually it killed them rather quietly - usually due to extreme over-voltage on the 5vsb rail. There was actually only one specific Bestec model that was responsible for this - the ATX-250 12E. Some older Antecs also did this, like 370forlife mentioned.

          But as far as the PSU killing the motherboard caps - yes it's possible, but it will usually happen over an extended period of time, not at once (if it does happen at once - which is usually rare - then there's also a big chance that the motherboard and attached hardware may be dead too). Normally the PSU caps will blow first (if they are a known cheap, low quality brand) which will then cause more stress on the motherboard caps causing them to eventually fail after enough abuse. But you can have the reverse scenario, too - that is the motherboard caps die first (either due to heat or due to low quality) and then cause the caps in the PSU to die.

          So to answer your question - well, you need to look at what brand the PSU is and what brand caps it has. Then you also have to look at what brand of caps are on the motherboard. If the motherboard had good caps, then you can certainly blame the PSU (although even good caps can die if the computer's case is not well ventilated). Same goes for the PSU.

          Comment

          • Kong
            Member
            • Jul 2010
            • 19

            #6
            Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

            Originally posted by momaka
            So to answer your question - well, you need to look at what brand the PSU is and what brand caps it has. Then you also have to look at what brand of caps are on the motherboard. If the motherboard had good caps, then you can certainly blame the PSU (although even good caps can die if the computer's case is not well ventilated). Same goes for the PSU.
            The brand of the PSU would be an OCZ GXS with what may have been CapXon capacitors. The motherboard apparently has a mix of different capacitors but most of the larger blown ones are KZG. The ventilation in the case also seems to be fair to good as it is a large case and thermal readouts for the individual components appeared to be normal.

            Also, does a slight tilt or bend at the base of a capacitor indicate that it has failed?

            Comment

            • ratdude747
              Black Sheep
              • Nov 2008
              • 17136
              • USA

              #7
              Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

              some delta units can do it too... ones with a 2 transistor 5vsb powered by a taicon cap. a user found a 350w that had 12v on the 5vsb... killed the mobo... few brands are safe from the crap-a** design it seems...
              sigpic

              (Insert witty quote here)

              Comment

              • Scenic
                o.O
                • Sep 2007
                • 2640
                • Germany

                #8
                Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                Originally posted by Kong
                The brand of the PSU would be an OCZ GXS with what may have been CapXon capacitors.
                there's a reason they're usually called CrapXon here...
                Originally posted by Kong
                The motherboard apparently has a mix of different capacitors but most of the larger blown ones are KZG.
                nippon/united chemicon KZG are allergic to any amount of heat. using them in CPU VRMs (around the CPU socket) is the worst thing you could do. longevity = 0 (just about long enough to fail when out of board-warranty usually)
                Originally posted by Kong
                Also, does a slight tilt or bend at the base of a capacitor indicate that it has failed?
                on some boards, the caps aren't completely flush to the board, so they can tilt a bit (in the milimeter range).

                Comment

                • 370forlife
                  Large Marge
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 3112
                  • United States

                  #9
                  Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                  Originally posted by Kong
                  The brand of the PSU would be an OCZ GXS with what may have been CapXon capacitors. The motherboard apparently has a mix of different capacitors but most of the larger blown ones are KZG. The ventilation in the case also seems to be fair to good as it is a large case and thermal readouts for the individual components appeared to be normal.

                  Also, does a slight tilt or bend at the base of a capacitor indicate that it has failed?
                  GameXstream is a FSP Epsilon build. Not a real good psu but it doesn't have a 2 transistor 5vsb circuit. It uses capxon capacitors though.

                  Comment

                  • Kong
                    Member
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 19

                    #10
                    Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                    What brands and models of PSUs do you guys think are constructed the best with good price to performance ratios?

                    Comment

                    • ratdude747
                      Black Sheep
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 17136
                      • USA

                      #11
                      Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                      how many watts? if 550 will do, i know of a steal...

                      it is an acbel 550w psu

                      they are server grade, they are heavy and built like tanks.

                      i own one myself and plan to get more.

                      if you are in the us, then i recommend it as it only costs $17... no kidding!

                      only bugger is it has an 8-pin 12v connection, it will fit a 4 pin but the clip will not line up. it has for ports:

                      24 pn atx
                      8 pin 12v
                      9x molex
                      1x berg (floppy)
                      2x SATA

                      they are here:

                      http://www.hypermicro.com/ProductDes...LY-BULK&key=it

                      enjoy!
                      sigpic

                      (Insert witty quote here)

                      Comment

                      • 370forlife
                        Large Marge
                        • Aug 2008
                        • 3112
                        • United States

                        #12
                        Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                        no pci-e connector, only 2 satas, and limited 12v capability. May work for you, but depending on your setup it might not.

                        Comment

                        • ratdude747
                          Black Sheep
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 17136
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                          it has solder holes for pci-e, and with 9 molex connections, you can use adapters... kinda hard to beat the price...
                          sigpic

                          (Insert witty quote here)

                          Comment

                          • Kong
                            Member
                            • Jul 2010
                            • 19

                            #14
                            Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                            Are the Acbels built with good capacitors?

                            Ratdude747, did you get your Acbel from HyperMicro.com? I ask because in their description for the product they state that it is "NEW BUT SCRATCHED DUE BAD PACKAGING". Are they talking about cosmetic scratching only, or do you think there could be dents in the unit's casing?

                            What about average retail brands like Thermaltake, Rosewill, and Corsair? How do you guys rate those types of brands?

                            Comment

                            • acstech
                              GrumpyModerator
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 1432
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                              Yes, it does have open holes on every rail, even ground. I added 2x PCI-E 6-pin power connectors to mine to run an 8800GTX. It runs that, an Intel QX9650, a P45 board, and 3 hard drives all very well. I've even measured ripple with an oscilloscope and it stays within spec even in a running computer (running 3dmark).

                              I'm of the opinion that the AcBel will fulfil the requirements of 98% of the computers out there, if you're willing to do a little soldering.

                              I have pics that I took a while back that I can post if anyone's interested. I think that was before the PCI-E connectors though.
                              A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

                              Comment

                              • PCBONEZ
                                Grumpy Old Fart
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 10661
                                • USA

                                #16
                                Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                                I never saw the big attraction to the ACBEL API4FS06.
                                -
                                They are cheap but only ~70% efficiency, have craps [usually OST], and look like a they are a bitch to recap.

                                To recap you need:
                                8 - 3300uF @ 10v - 10x25mm
                                6 - 2200uF @ 16v - 10x25mm
                                3 - 1000uF @ 16v - 8x20mm

                                That shoots any initial purchase savings all to hell.

                                ~~~

                                Lately for regular PC's I pick up used Earthwatts and recap them.
                                [Never actually found blown caps yet, just craps I don't like around.]
                                Easy to recap and 80+ efficiency.
                                Used 550w can be had for $20-$30 [including shipping] on eBay if you aren't in a hurry.
                                I've gotten a few 650w for $30-35.

                                I do have a lot of lower efficiency FSP, Delta, older Antec, HEC, and so forth sitting around that are fine [good caps as original or recapped] that have been replaced by 80+ units.

                                The servers use Corsair 750-850 watt units.
                                [Although that's probably overkill for all but one of them.]

                                .
                                Attached Files
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment

                                • c_hegge
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Sep 2009
                                  • 5219
                                  • Australia

                                  #17
                                  Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                                  For sub-500W units, I like the corsair VX450. 80Plus certified, all japanese caps, quiet and fairly affordable.
                                  I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

                                  No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

                                  Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

                                  Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

                                  Comment

                                  • PCBONEZ
                                    Grumpy Old Fart
                                    • Aug 2005
                                    • 10661
                                    • USA

                                    #18
                                    Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                                    Originally posted by Kong
                                    Are you aware of any other brands that might be have what's considered to be good reputations but have been known to cause similar issues?
                                    Missed that question...

                                    YES

                                    Almost all older Antecs with original caps. - That includes Neo [without the "HE"] and all the True Power and Smart Power variants but isn't limited to them.

                                    Anyone who's OEM is CWT [which is MANY]

                                    Enermax Liberty and Noisetaker [possibly some others]
                                    https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...hlight=ENERMAX

                                    Should note though that what has a "good reputation" somewhere else might not have one here. - We here actually repair them so we know what's inside.

                                    .
                                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                    -
                                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                    - Dr Seuss
                                    -
                                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                    -

                                    Comment

                                    • japlytic
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Oct 2005
                                      • 2086
                                      • Australia

                                      #19
                                      Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                                      I've seen a motherboard with a lot of bad caps (Luxon units) being used for filtering the positive rails connected directly to the power supply.
                                      The power supply did not have quality caps at all.
                                      My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

                                      Comment

                                      • ratdude747
                                        Black Sheep
                                        • Nov 2008
                                        • 17136
                                        • USA

                                        #20
                                        Re: Can PSUs Cause Bad Caps?

                                        Originally posted by Kong
                                        Are the Acbels built with good capacitors?

                                        Ratdude747, did you get your Acbel from HyperMicro.com? I ask because in their description for the product they state that it is "NEW BUT SCRATCHED DUE BAD PACKAGING". Are they talking about cosmetic scratching only, or do you think there could be dents in the unit's casing?
                                        a scratch on the label. thats all.

                                        idk if the caps are all that bad... nobody has had them fail yets, who knows, i heard newer ost's might be not so bad...

                                        i did buy mine there, i like it, and i think shooting it down just because it only has 70% efficiency is like ditching a car just because it gets 5 mpg less than a car twice the price.
                                        sigpic

                                        (Insert witty quote here)

                                        Comment

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