Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

[dood]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

ratdude - am I not mistaken in remembering that if you got the eee PC with WinXP, it came with 1gb RAM, but if you got it with Linux, it came with 2gb???

[washu]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

ratdude - am I not mistaken in remembering that if you got the eee PC with WinXP, it came with 1gb RAM, but if you got it with Linux, it came with 2gb???

You are probably thinking of the one that came with a 12 GB SSD in with XP or a 20 GB SSD with Linux. 12 GB is plenty for either.

[370forlife]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

Read the quote it is in reply to.

What, is it supposed to be a

"I hate windows! I hate linux!

What the hell, a dead horse?

What were we talking about?"

kind of thing?

[Topcat]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

Thank you.

[BeRReGoN]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

But they will stop only when they'll see a dead invisible pink unicorn image!

[acstech]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

Actually they will both be fine. You said all patches, which means IE8. There has yet to be an automated script-kiddy hack for IE8 in the wild.

Now, if it was a targeted attack, they would both be in trouble. Both IE8 and Firefox got hacked at the last pwn2own. But no one is going to run a targeted attack against some random user on Facebook.

No, they wouldn't be fine. I tested this just a couple weeks ago.

-short story-

One of my customers had quite a few viruses on their computer. I reinstalled it, installed AVG, installed Windows Defender, turned on the Windows Firewall, installed their programs, did all the updates (including IE8), and sent it on it's way. A couple weeks later they call complaining that it won't boot up. Scan the hard drive and... virus. They had no router / firewall except the windows firewall.

XP fail. Now they have a router / firewall.

This is not the first time I've seen this either. In all instances after the router / firewall is installed the problems go away.

I'm not saying Windows sucks, Linux sucks, Mac sucks, or anything like that. But saying Windows is secure is denying reality.

Hmm, a dead horse. Really. You Windows guys have it all figured out too. Riiiiight.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

Based on DOS or not, Win 3.1 was a usable system in 1991. Linux in 1991 was barely functional above "it boots".

More Apples and Oranges. - Unfair comparisons.

In 1991 Linux was zero years old.
In 1991 DOS was at least 10 years old.

~

Further your response has nothing to do with why Linux is free, which is what my comment was in response to.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

But they will stop only when they'll see a dead invisible pink unicorn image!

I'm afraid I dunno where to find that one..
And if I did I wouldn't know it because I can't see invisible.

[washu]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

No, they wouldn't be fine. I tested this just a couple weeks ago.

-short story-

One of my customers had quite a few viruses on their computer. I reinstalled it, installed AVG, installed Windows Defender, turned on the Windows Firewall, installed their programs, did all the updates (including IE8), and sent it on it's way. A couple weeks later they call complaining that it won't boot up. Scan the hard drive and... virus. They had no router / firewall except the windows firewall.

XP fail. Now they have a router / firewall.

But that isn't the situation you posted earlier. Your not going to tell me that they just surfed nothing but facebook for two weeks and then suddenly had a virus.

How did the virus get on the PC? Was it an IE hack or a stupid user? Stupid user includes not having the firewall configured correctly. The Windows firewall is pretty basic, but it does prevent outside connections unless configured wrong or a virus got in because a user downloaded it. If you know some way to remotely bypass it I'd love to hear it. I bet a lot of hackers would too, as the Windows firewall does actually work in it's default configuration. Finally, firewall or not there hasn't been any widespread remote exploit for Windows in a few years, so if it really was patched it is even more unlikely it got in that way.

Unless you have some evidence to the contrary, I'd say this has about a 99% chance of being a "PEBKAC" virus infection and has nothing to do with the security of Windows at all.

You also showed that a reasonably well respected AV program didn't help any. You slowed down their PC for nothing. Would have been better to leave them with no AV and let them enjoy a faster PC. User's like that are going to get infected anyway.

[washu]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

More Apples and Oranges. - Unfair comparisons.

In 1991 Linux was zero years old.
In 1991 DOS was at least 10 years old.

You were implying that Win 3.1 was inferior to Linux because it was based on DOS. In 1991 that wasn't true. It's a perfectly valid comparison.

Further your response has nothing to do with why Linux is free, which is what my comment was in response to.

.

I know very well why Linux is free. While TC was incorrect, he does have a point. Most of the really successful and good Linux apps, including the kernel itself have pretty hefty corporate backing. So they were hardly free, someone paid for at least parts of them. Most of those are also server apps. Some of the desktop stuff has money behind it too, but nothing on the level of the server stuff and it shows.

[washu]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

More Apples and Oranges. - Unfair comparisons.

In 1991 Linux was zero years old.
In 1991 DOS was at least 10 years old.

Also, by that logic ME (19 years old in 2000) was better than Linux (9 years old in 2000).

[grss1982]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

I'm afraid I dunno where to find that one..
And if I did I wouldn't know it because I can't see invisible.

ROFL!!!! FUCK YEAH!!!! That made my day. Thanks PCBONEZ.

[BeRReGoN]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

I'm afraid I dunno where to find that one..
And if I did I wouldn't know it because I can't see invisible.

Only because you don't have faith! After a good spaghetti meat balls, i can take a lot of dead invisible pink unicorn pictures!

[Topcat]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

I don't love or hate either one. - I use both.
I just recognize their differences.
Windows sacrifices efficiency, reliability, and security in favor of "Easy Buttons".
Linux sacrifices easy in the name of security and reliability.
.
What I don't like is unfair comparisons and 'legacy gripes'.
.

ehh, not exactly. With a competent user, both are just as secure as the other. This site has ran on windows servers all its life up until this past June. I've never had the server compromised in anyway (via hacked, viruses, or malware of any sort)....but on that note, I know how to lock one down properly. The same goes for a linux/unix server. it's no more secure than it's administrator's knowledge, just like a windows box. I also use them both, but I use them as I see best. For a 'daily driver' system, I'm sorry, but Windows takes the prize (version of your choice). For servers and open source, yes, Linux is the better alternative, and I'll explain why I switched over from Win to *nix:

I ran a mail server program which I obtained years ago, and it started acting kind of strange (it was always a little 'quirky' to begin with), and some of its features were very outdated and no longer functioned properly (mainly spam filtering). The version I was running was probably 5~6yrs old, so I looked into a newer version of it.....low and behold, a license for the bells and whistles I wanted was almost 3000 bucks....I'll pass. I could bootleg it, but for a site such as this, I choose not to break the law and compromise the site and its integrity with such an action.....so hello Linux.

[dood]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

No, they wouldn't be fine. I tested this just a couple weeks ago.

-short story-

One of my customers had quite a few viruses on their computer. I reinstalled it, installed AVG, installed Windows Defender, turned on the Windows Firewall, installed their programs, did all the updates (including IE8), and sent it on it's way. A couple weeks later they call complaining that it won't boot up. Scan the hard drive and... virus. They had no router / firewall except the windows firewall.

XP fail. Now they have a router / firewall.

LOL... so a firewall is an acceptable substitute for an AV program? Each one does its own thing. Just because the windows firewall was enabled and they got a virus, doesn't mean that the firewall wasn't doing its job. If the user clicks "SURE! I'd LOVE to install PERSONAL ANTIVIRUS 360 180 1024x768!!!!", there's not much either program can do to stop a potential virus installation.

Using this computer requires this much : -----

brain power.

[washu]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

.
Windows sacrifices efficiency, reliability, and security in favor of "Easy Buttons".
Linux sacrifices easy in the name of security and reliability.
.
.

TC beat me to it but this is again wrong.

Efficiency: Sure a Linux server can be pretty cut down and efficient, but the BSDs beat it handily if you want to go extreme low resources.

As for the desktop, 95 ran on 4 MB, NT4 on 12. No Linux from any year even comes close to that level of resource usage and still have a GUI that is even remotely useful. Add all the extra crap the Linux desktop needs and Windows looks pretty slim in comparison. Linux with a proper GUI is anything but efficient.

reliability: You might have had a point back in the Win9X days, but not now. The NT kernel is very reliable and easily the equal of the Linux one, especially given how fast it changes now. How many times has the Linux scheduler been broken and revamped in the past few years?

Linux = reliable
Linux + server crap = reliable
Linux + desktop crap = not reliable

X is crappy. Many of the underlying GUI libraries are pretty crappy to. The sound situation in Linux is a joke. Pulseaudio makes ME look like the pinnacle of good programing. Linux can't even get something basic like sound working reliably. And that is a very Linux specific problem, even the BSDs have solved the sound issue long ago and they arn't even targeting desktops for the most part. When my OpenBSD firewall can play sound reliably but Ubuntu can not that says there is something very wrong with the state of the desktop on Linux

security: NT has a much better and fine grained security model than Linux. Yeah it's had its fair share of security bugs, but the underlying design is better. There is nothing you can do about stupid users and still give them rights to the PC. Windows has stupid users in droves and the problem will migrate to Linux if it ever goes somewhere on the desktop.

The same tired arguments that applied to Win9X don't fly anymore. Windows is a real OS just like Linux, just without massive usability issues and crappy apps. Working sound is nice too. Why should someone use a Linux desktop again?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

You were implying that Win 3.1 was inferior to Linux because it was based on DOS.

Nope. - Not even related to what my point was.
Is this a comprehension issue or an insecurity complex?

I know very well why Linux is free. While TC was incorrect,,,

THAT was my ONLY point in that post.

~~
I've stated my opinion and if you don't agree that's your right.

I've heard your agreements.
I don't agree and you.
You aren't going to change my mind.

~~
Good God People!
Lets settle the >10 year old Linux/Windows debate RIGHT HERE AND NOW!

~~
You go right ahead.
Wake me up when you're done.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

I FOUND ONE!

[acstech]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

But that isn't the situation you posted earlier. Your not going to tell me that they just surfed nothing but facebook for two weeks and then suddenly had a virus.

How did the virus get on the PC? Was it an IE hack or a stupid user? Stupid user includes not having the firewall configured correctly. The Windows firewall is pretty basic, but it does prevent outside connections unless configured wrong or a virus got in because a user downloaded it. If you know some way to remotely bypass it I'd love to hear it. I bet a lot of hackers would too, as the Windows firewall does actually work in it's default configuration. Finally, firewall or not there hasn't been any widespread remote exploit for Windows in a few years, so if it really was patched it is even more unlikely it got in that way.

Unless you have some evidence to the contrary, I'd say this has about a 99% chance of being a "PEBKAC" virus infection and has nothing to do with the security of Windows at all.

You also showed that a reasonably well respected AV program didn't help any. You slowed down their PC for nothing. Would have been better to leave them with no AV and let them enjoy a faster PC. User's like that are going to get infected anyway.

Same computer, different times. First time there were quite a few viruses. Cleaned, reinstalled, reinfected.

Now here's the question: If this user had been running Linux, and done the exact same things, would their computer have stopped working?

[ratdude747]

Re: Apple-spend thousands instead of upgrading

ratdude - am I not mistaken in remembering that if you got the eee PC with WinXP, it came with 1gb RAM, but if you got it with Linux, it came with 2gb???

thats because microsoft said:

"we will only sell you xp (ultra-low cost pc edition (home)) if you can meet some requirements:

no optical drive

no more than 1gb ram

etc.

otherwise, we will only sell you vista"

the reason the linux model has more ram is they were not under a limit specs order and thought it would make the product faster (they also already had ddr2 2gb chips mass-ordered) . who uses more ram is irrelevant here, more ram will always make it faster. the xp model would have more by default if microsoft would let them.

its not wh