Seagate 7200.11 turds

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

well, your old drives will go "poof" too, and you'll start using these eventually.

I stocked up. I have around 60 new WD RE Series drives WDxxxxSB drives in 160/250GB I'm not using yet and that are reserved for my own personal use. Also have ~20 WD400BB set aside for when I don't need a big drive. At the rate these fail and I'll need 'personal use' drives I'll probably need to restock my 'private reserve' sometime after about 2020.
.
I don't save 'junk' permanently on my drives so my most full system [the one I back up files to] at present only has ~120 GB of data.

Only got the 250's to support the wif's PVR/TV habit. If she's saving more than 500Gb of TV shows then it means she doesn't have time to watch it anyway so why store it? It gets dumped.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

The new ones probably have web browsers and flash roms and blinking lights.

I want one that does dishes, makes coffee, and knows how to solder.

[willawake]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

whats the solution? buy old drives? this is not a proper solution

these 7200.11 drives are wierd. they go plod plod plod plod in idle and dont spin down. what are they up to? moving data around?

[Wizard]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

That is correct, not good solution to keep buying older drives forever, can't do this here.

You buy by reputation. Which I go with Hitachi or if I had to, WD in still newer generations.

Keep ear to the ground and rotate hard drives every 1-3 years.

Cheers, Wizard

[i4004]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

>and knows how to solder.

what an idea, taking soldering away from humans....or wait, they already did that...DAMN!!!
anyway i want one with big tits and ass....

>I stocked up.

makes sense. some devices (generations) are best completely skipped.
i skipped dvd-player...
otoh, i just got linux satellite receiver with card-sharing....
easier than renting dvds, cheaper too....

>and blinking lights.

i understand web browsing, and flash roms, but blinking lights?
that's something new...
<wink>

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

> blinking lights

Why not? They put LEDs in fans.
Would be just as usefull.
.

[zandrax]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

@ PCBONEZ: your idea has a flaw: you assume nowadays drives will be recognized by future controllers, offer enough performance (not being a bottleneck in future systems), having a big enough capacity for future needs and still be reliable.
Realize what this means: ten years ago an average hard disc was more likely a 5400 rpm one (old enough technology, while consumer 7200 rpm drives were still in infancy), capacity between 2 and 15 GB (who remembers the IBM 14GXP anymore?), maximum transfert rate between 5 and 15 MB/s (the faster 7200 rpm ones): in order to reach the performances and capacity of one of your WD REs (peak transfert rate at 65-70 MB/s, capacity 250 GB) you should put ten best 1999's hdds (of course the reliable ones: maybe the Fujitsu MPD line?) in a raid 0 and however you'll never reach the same reliability, consumption or noise. Can you find 5 PCI ide controllers (two separate channels each) and a brand new motherboard with 5 PCI slots? (I know there are a lot with 3, few with 4 but only some industrial grade board has such).
Is this worth the hassle?

Zandrax

[i4004]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

i don't think he'll be changing his mobos anytime soon, so he can probably pull it off easilly...

and by 2020 let's hope we're done with this crappy technology and something better comes...

[Per Hansson]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

Something better is already coming
SSD's are looking more promising each month that passes by!
I would love to stick SSD drives for testing in some CNC machines at work but alas the others don't share my curiosity :P

BTW; Isn't part of the firmware kept on the platters for the fact that it's easier to write to it then (than updating an EEPROM) with new bad sector reallocation info? (I have nothing to back this up with, just a hunch :P)

[i4004]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

yes, but ssd's must become cheap first...

>BTW; Isn't part of the firmware kept on the platters for the fact that it's easier to write to it then (than updating an EEPROM) with new bad sector reallocation info? (I have nothing to back this up with, just a hunch :P)

that wouldn't be a problem to do on pcb chip...i mean memory is cheap these days...

also, i don't think they're putting whole firmware on platters...but putting any part of it on platters is silly...firmware and smart stuff should be in chips...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

There is no flaw in my plan, sorry, none.
I'll elaborate later as Ms. Bonez got off work early so we're hittin' the town.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

SSD's have a 2-3 year life expectancy.

[kikkoman]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

SSD's have a 2-3 year life expectancy.

the calculations regarding lifetime in this review are interesting. sure, it's cutting edge technology and frickin expensive, but it shows what's possible. give it a few years, there'll be huge steps.

about PMR:
hard to tell. according to manufacturers (like hitachi, see below) newer PMR drives with the currently highest possible densities are -on a physical level- more stable than the last LMR drives.
the recent and sudden transition makes comparisons and reliability predictions difficult. it may also shuffle and deal out the brand/reliability cards again. new game, new luck.

[gdement]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

> blinking lights

Why not? They put LEDs in fans.
Would be just as usefull.
.

Some LEDs in a tumble dryer might be kind of awesome. They could change colors as the moisture decreases. See, I'm making it useful now.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

about PMR:
hard to tell. according to manufacturers (like hitachi, see below) newer PMR drives with the currently highest possible densities are -on a physical level- more stable than the last LMR drives.

hahahahaha

Manufacturers ALWAYS say their new stuff is better. They wanna sell it.
Think: Microsoft - Vista!
Think: Intel - RDRAM!
Think: Intel - Slot 1 (Intel claimed was so much better than a socket solution)
Think: Windows ME
Countless more...

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

~~ Begin Rant ~~

Cars went faster faster until it got to a point in the late '60's where more speed didn't make any difference to people because what was available was enough to meet any realistic day to day need.
- I'm there with PC's. Over the next ~10 years my needs in a computer aren't likely to change anymore than my needs in a car will. The level I'm at does the job quite nicely. I -am- switching to Linux but if anything that will require LESS of a computer.

The other thing is that more, faster, better with computers you get to a point where the improvements on paper aren't humanly perceivable.
As drives go, since the combination of UDMA/100 + 7200 RPM drives have been fast enough that I don't even notice their interaction with what I'm doing during 'normal use'. Their function is invisible to me.
['Normal use' excludes maintenance procedures.]
-
If I shoot a tin can with one kind of bullet and then switch to a much faster bullet and shoot it again I won't be able to PERCEIVE the difference between the two bullet's speeds.
- That's where I'm at with hard drives.

@ PCBONEZ: your idea has a flaw: you assume nowadays drives will be recognized by future controllers

I won't NEED a future controller.
I've been planning this and collecting the parts for quite a while.
I'm almost there now.

offer enough performance (not being a bottleneck in future systems), having a big enough capacity for future needs and still be reliable.

-
Bottleneck:
What bottleneck,,, that I can physically perceive?
-
Capacity:
I have 10+ years worth of everything I care to save and it's <120Gb.
It wouldn't be too hard to clip that down another 30-40 GB by getting rid of some back-ups of CDs that should be on CDs instead anyway.
-
My future needs in a PC are the same as they are today.
I research. I read. I write. I store information for later reference.
Other than a PVR for the wife I don't intend to expand on that.
My [real] needs today could easily be meet by a P3.

Realize what this means: ~~ (censored for space) ~~.

-
Like I said, I haven't seen a HUMANLY PERCEIVABLE improvement in interface or drive performance since UDMA/100 + 7200 RPM.
Sure, the numbers are better on paper or via Dynamo Joe's [or whoever's] little drive performance utility... but PERCEIVABLE? No. Not to me.

Can you find 5 PCI ide controllers (two separate channels each) and a brand new motherboard with 5 PCI slots?

-
Why do I need 5 PCI slots?
- LAN, video, USB,,, all on-board.
- The only cards I need are the RAID card and maybe a modem.
My 'potential keeper' server boards have 2+ PCI-X slots, 2+ PCI, and on-board dual Giga-LAN and 2 or 3 PCI buses. I have a couple with all that AND PCI-E slots.
'Keeper' thin clients are all-in-one uATX P3 1.4Ghz Tualatin boards with 3 slots. 1-GigaLan, 1-RAID, 1-USB2. They don't need anything else.
[I have like 27 of those, anyone need some?]
Wif's PVR is still undecided but just got some 'maybe' boards to play with that have on-board HD->TV via an S-video and/or DVI out. [Actually two models of board with that to play with.]
-
I won't be buying any newer model motherboards [for MY use] once I'm done.
More of the same model boards if I need one? Yes. New models? No.
Don't tell me they'll be hard to find in the future.
I just got 27 Tualie boards and 42 1.4 Gig CPUs. - No problem.
-
I already have eight 8 drive IDE RAID cards.
I also have about ten 4 drive IDE RAID cards.
Won't need non-RAID controllers but have about 10 collecting dust.

Is this worth the hassle?

It's less of a hassle than having PRM drives lose my data and having to reinstall OS's and software.
You folks keep telling me that doesn't happen but that's contrary to what I see going on,,, even right here in this forum.

~~~~

-HOME- computers with Terabyte drives, 4 core CPU's, 4+ GB RAM.
These things are appropriate to enthusiasts, software engineers, artists maybe, or in servers, but one that's only used for Jack/Jane to do homework and for Mom/Dad to email, shop, pay bills, do office work, and/or run the small business with....
.... Just SILLY. A waste!

I think the PC industry has gotten so focused on faster faster faster that they aren't 'thinking' about where they are going. Also that they haven't realized there is a point where there is no PRACTICAL advantage [to the average person] in upgrading, so they won't.
-
That happens at some point in nearly every industry and I think the PC industry (hardware and software) is at the brink of it.
.. They just don't know it yet.

~ I hereby end my rant! -> The crowd cheers!!! [Or continues snoring.]
.

[i4004]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

it's not that we tell you that it doesn't happen, but that hdds fail no matter the technology.
ie that you don't really have a proof prm fails more.
(offcourse that might as well be the case, that they do fail more, but what we would like to see is the proof....internet reports about failing hdds can't be used as a good parameter..you would need something like much higher return rate for ALL prm drives(no matter the mfr), or so...)

other than that, i find this post of yours absolutely beautiful.
that's why i said i can run win2k for long, long time...even though now nobody is making drivers for it anymore...
makes me wonder about space you have..i mean 27 boards...you mentioned many hdds too...

about future, i also can't understand what are they doing(heh..i can they want to sell as much as possible)...but then again, i love it.
why?
because multi-core cpus are needed for my video work.
so i'll let people buy them, as it makes them cheaper...hehe...
but as you say, do most of people need them?
no, not at all....they bring them exactly nothing except money wasted...
what worries is that these new systems tend to have clock issues(seems it's ram) that prevent video capping from working ok... (example
http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.p...=0&#entry69578 guy has issues with 2 i7 mobos...gb and asus) but like you say, this is not a REAL issue., as i can do capping with p3-800 and that's dirt cheap.
to that extent i say long live the past!
(also, these days it's more about just dumping streams than cpu heavy video processing...i'll do processing when i have 16 cores...perhaps it'll be fast enough then..hehe)

in the long run, they can only sell more to the 3rd world, but these don't have money, so they'll probably have to wind it down to great extent...i see no way that everybody will be upgrading their pcs every few years...
even if we had somewhat of such a trend in past years, i think we'll see less and less of it...that will offcourse go for software mfrs too...as old programs work just fine...

about linux..i generally agree with everything from this thread
http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.p...=0&#entry69561
for me as somebody tinkering with video it's just easier to use win...

[Per Hansson]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

PCBONEZ; Why don't you just run RAID1 and do backups if you are so afraid of your data?
I'm running RAID5 and have had 2 harddrive failures in the last year but still no dataloss so no problem really...?

[willawake]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

what worries is that these new systems tend to have clock issues(seems it's ram) that prevent video capping from working ok... (example
http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.p...=0&#entry69578 guy has issues with 2 i7 mobos...

wow funny these i7 systems play audio and video fine

[i4004]

Re: Seagate 7200.11 turds

i7 for playback-only is like buying a truck to race f1 cars...

no, with truck you do usefull things, not race...
hehe...

new system should do everything old one does, and then some..
if it can't, it's crap.

anyway willa give your i7 system to me(i'll use it to process video, not cap it!), you don't have use for it anyway...
2 months from now it'll be yesterdays news anyway...