How does this happen?

[stevo1210]

There's one thing I've never really understood with Windows in regards to swapping hard drives from one PC to another. This is a bit hard to explain, I know....

For example when I swap the hard drive (loaded with Windows XP) from my work PC into the PC in my room, Windows XP will not load and will give me a BSOD because the hardware has changed significantly.

But when I get a hard drive loaded with Windows 98 from the PC in the shed and put it in the PC in my room (or any other PC), it will boot into Windows and load the nessesary drivers and off I go without an issue. With Windows XP, I have to do a stupid repair installation just to get the drive to boot to Windows.

Why does this occur? Did Microsoft make hard drives loaded with Windows XP unswappable just to torture people? or is it just that Windows 98 was much more friendlier?

Thanks.

[Fizzycapola]

Re: How does this happen?

Part of their anti-piracy program implemented. They don't know you have licenses on all your machines, they just assume you're a mad criminal breaking laws they've created, did you know for example if you have "mousy hair" MS have had a law passed that you're a criminal if you install Windows 2003, or if you have "ginger hair" and don't allow MS firewall or update service then you're 100% probably suffering from incurable paranoid Schizophrenia.

[gdement]

Re: How does this happen?

Don't know the exact reason, but it's not just XP, it's probably the whole NT series that's like this.

I've had the same issues with Win2k, not sure about NT4. For whatever reason the NT series is less forgiving about misconfigurations at boot. NT is also much more likely to destroy itself when faced with glitchy hardware, while win9x will more often just crash and work fine when rebooted.

You can swap NT if the 2 machines are similar, but if they have different drive controllers it's almost certain failure.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: How does this happen?

It's NOT an anti-piracy feature. NOT DRM.

It's because Windows tries to use wrong configuration information.

More likely, tries to use the wrong drivers.

[stevo1210]

Re: How does this happen?

So from what I understand, Windows XP or any NT based OS can't figure out drivers for chipsets and drive controllers, but Windows 98/ME can do that with no issue? I just need to know this information because I am planning to install Windows 98 my Toshiba laptop using the hard drive from my Dell laptop because the Dell laptop has a non working optical drive....

Thanks.

[i4004]

Re: How does this happen?

stevo, you just said
"will give me a BSOD because the hardware has changed significantly."

which suggests that bs told you hardware is changed significantly?
if so, it's drm.

if you get bsod without that, then it's hardware issue, and in that case here's a good read
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...4/m/1400925745

[willawake]

Re: How does this happen?

bleh i have seen ME nuke itself after changing one card

can take an image of the disk to be safe. who knows whats gonna happen

[Harvey]

Re: How does this happen?

...
Why does this occur? Did Microsoft make hard drives loaded with Windows XP unswappable just to torture people? or is it just that Windows 98 was much more friendlier?

Thanks.

Its simply that the NT kernel (Win 2000, XP etc) uses its own lowlevel IDE/chipset drivers rather than go through the BIOS like 95/98 did.

That means that when you swap motherboard, if the chipset is significantly different to what is expected it'll BSOD with an error along the lines of "WTF? where's the harddrive just gone??"

If you remove the IDE/Chipset drivers from a XP etc. install, then shutdown and swap motherboard it generally works.

I have a little utility called WinMBoardMig which I can run from a BartPE CD for those times when a motherboard has died and has been swapped - basically that just wipes out the hardware parts of the registry and makes Windows go through the process of re detecting it all again - most the time it works

[willawake]

Re: How does this happen?

I have a little utility called WinMBoardMig which I can run from a BartPE CD for those times when a motherboard has died and has been swapped - basically that just wipes out the hardware parts of the registry and makes Windows go through the process of re detecting it all again - most the time it works

kewl

[i4004]

Re: How does this happen?

http://rapidshare.com/files/18172527/WinMBoardMig.zip

[Scenic]

Re: How does this happen?

mirrored... without waiting countdown..

http://euda.ath.cx:88/yafu/1337438791/WinMBoardMig.rar

[dood]

Re: How does this happen?

LOL, I love some of the misinformation the net can give you, even on our fair forums here. "OMGS, IT'S DRM MICROSOFT IS THE DEVIL!!!"... err... wronnng. Harvey's got the real answer. It has to do with different chipsets and how the NT kernel looks for drives.

The workaround for this in desktop PCs is to install a PCI hard drive controller. Leave the original drive on the motherboard controller, let windows boot and pick up drivers for the PCI controller. Then, shut the system down, plug the drive into the PCI controller, and check to make sure it still boots up. Move the whole drive/controller setup over into the new machine, boot it with the PCI controller, and install the new motherboard chipset/IDE drivers. Plug the drive into the new motherboard and everything should be hunky-dory. Done it dozens of times in machine upgrades where the original machine had recently been reloaded and I didn't feel like setting up software and settings again.

[arneson]

Re: How does this happen?

Good trick dood, simple, effective workaround.

[dood]

Re: How does this happen?

It's why I always keep a controller card laying around. I've got one with two SATA ports and one IDE port... effective for both types of drives!

[Scenic]

Re: How does this happen?

same procedure if you're going to put the HDD of a dual-core system into a single-core system (for whatever reason..)
just go into the device manager and click on "computer"... it should show "ACPI Multiprocessor PC".. "update" the drivers to "Standard PC" or "ACPI PC" (if the target sys supports ACPI) reboot, and you're done..

for the other way around (single core -> dualcore) you usually don't need to do anything... it should recognize the 2nd core automatically and use the "ACPI Multiprocessor PC"-"driver" after a reboot (first boot usually only uses the 1st core).




had to do this when i sold my P4 HT. i had to use a cheap single core Celeron D for a while until i received the money for the P4 HT i sold on ebay (because i needed a bit more money to buy my (at that time brand new and rather expensive) Core 2 Duo E4300)

[i4004]

Re: How does this happen?

The workaround for this in desktop PCs is to install a PCI hard drive controller. Leave the original drive on the motherboard controller, let windows boot and pick up drivers for the PCI controller. Then, shut the system down, plug the drive into the PCI controller, and check to make sure it still boots up. Move the whole drive/controller setup over into the new machine, boot it with the PCI controller, and install the new motherboard chipset/IDE drivers. Plug the drive into the new motherboard and everything should be hunky-dory. Done it dozens of times in machine upgrades where the original machine had recently been reloaded and I didn't feel like setting up software and settings again.

good lord dood what's this?
first up, pci controller is not on the place where os will look first

"Can I do something like this to move my HD from an onboard controller to a RAID or PCI controller, or vice versa?
No. The onboard controller has a standard 'location' where standard drivers will always be able to work with it. PCI and RAID controllers have no such standard, you'll just get INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE. You may also get this error if your boot drive is on a PCI controller and you change the slot it's in. This can be worked around on systems with APICs by changing the INT# mapping to match the old INT# to the new location. Other systems can't do this."
(from the link i gave above)

that means there are no guarantees a new mobo/that pci-card combination will work.
none.

also if one was to do excatly as you said, bdos is guaranteed; you don't mention how did you tell the os that boot drive is now on another place?
i guess that's why you said
"and check to make sure it still boots up"
you didn't say what if it doesn't.

and i don't see why would one need to fuck with pci ata card installation when it's not needed. putting the driver to ms universal driver means it'll boot.
(but it won't work for ata->sata system transfer attempts...then again anytime your system works is like hitting the jackpot..hehe
the pci controller is just not on the same place as mobo controller, and i didn't see you address that point.)

hunky dory? more like dire straits.

[dood]

Re: How does this happen?

Has worked fine for me every time I've tried it. Windows just needs the drivers installed to be able to access the controller at a low level.

[kc8adu]

Re: How does this happen?

i do the same thing as dood.
although you can just as easily revert to standard ide then do the swap.
i have used that migration tool with great success too.

[i4004]

Re: How does this happen?

what pci card? does it even matter what chip is on it?
and do you always put it (for example) on first pci slot, or?

would it(for example) work on this machine i now have:
pci card with via controller is for 2nd disk(and 2bd optical drive).
you say i can unplug that, plug the boot drive and it will boot?
it's in the 3rd pci slot of asus p5k-v board.
win2k.

oh yeah, it's dual boot system(xp/2k).

[Fizzycapola]

Re: How does this happen?

I wonder whether this works

Before swapping out the current motherboard
Select the IDE ATA/ATAPI CONTROLLER in DEVICE MANAGER.
Select your current storage controller.
Right click on that controller, select UPDATE DRIVER.
Select INSTALL FROM A LIST OR SPECIFIC LOCATION.
Click DON'T SEARCH I WILL CHOOSE THE DRIVER TO INSTALL.
Select the STANDARD DUAL CHANNEL IDE CONTROLLER.
This prevents the INACCESSABLE BOOT DEVICE Blue Screen Of Death.

Boot the very first time into SAFE MODE with the new motherboard where XP can install the drivers it needs and at the same time you can install any new motherboard drivers from the provided CD.
Posted: 05/27/2005 @ 02:12 PM (PDT)

JonathanX 4
Job Role: Technical/PC Support
Location: Portland, Oregon
Member since: 05/18/2005

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