RAID 5 question

[Bookworm]

Re: RAID 5 question

You're safer with Linux "software" raid than host fakeraid. (look up the term, there's lots of information on it)

The 'fakeraid' systems are really designed to have the OS do the work - however, Microsoft OSes aren't designed properly to do that efficiently, and the fakeraid chipset manufacturers rarely give out enough information for any _other_ OS'es to do it.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

I'm quite familiar with the terms.

The OS doing the work hasn't mattered much since P3 did the went part of came and went.
-
'Old' wisdom.
Soft-RAID is not a significant load on a modern system.
-
Same-same with Hardware vs Software modems or needing an add-in Decoder card to decode DVD.

What you do need to watch and does still matter is bandwidth on your PCI bus.
It's best to have a dedicated BUS for your RAID.

I do like idea of Linux software RAID but somehow it just doesn't work so well on dual/multi boot systems. - LOL

.

[Bookworm]

Re: RAID 5 question

*cough*

Sorry to disagree, but I've found that the various gadgets seem to take a _percentage_ of the processor, rather than a specific mhz of processor ability.

I still see mouse slowdowns at winmodem dialup, and onboard controller modems still work better for faxes and dialups.

FakeRAID is still crap, because it require a huge driver module to actually run in the background. I've seen that take up to 10% of a 2 ghz cpu under normal loads.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

You go right ahead and disagree.
It wasn't an original thought. I got it from engineers.

It works by number of operations that have to be completed, not by a % of CPU or bandwidth.

If the CPU is available it will do more operations concurrently and you see more % devoted to the task. If you see 10% that it also means the CPU wasn't busy and it's using % that would otherwise be idle CPU because it's easily handling the other tasks.

Even if they did take a % as your interpretation of what you see suggests, the higher clock speed on a newer system would complete the operation faster and open up the CPU to do something else sooner.

Huge driver module?
I don't know what you were using.
My driver is <300k.
Even using it on an old P3, Firefox takes buucuu WAY more CPU% than the RAID.

You mouse slowdown at dial-up is caused by your browser, not the modem driver.
The modem being a problem (pertinent to what I was talking about) would happen after you are connected, not during dial-up.

The RAID I'm using is PERFECT for my *needs* and I'm completely happy with it.
- Now you go use what you want.

.

[stretch0069]

Re: RAID 5 question

2.4TB? Mikey, there's something wrong with you.

and you thought that there might be something right with me???????



silly topcat.....

[Per Hansson]

Re: RAID 5 question

RAID Reconstructor is a software you can use to recreate a RAID array if the controller is dead

Sure, takes some time but a failed RAID controller does not mean your data is lost, not by any means

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

Thanks but that's Windows based and for the price of it I could buy 4 or 5 controllers.

[shadow]

Re: RAID 5 question

Thanks but that's Windows based and for the price of it I could buy 4 or 5 controllers.

Yes, however think about the poor business owner that has lots of vital data that can not be lost. Naturally with no backup!

Now I think the software would be well worth the price if another controller could not be found or if one too many hard drives failed in an array.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

I am a poor business owner with lots of vital data I don't wanna lose.
- I do backup.

I reviewed all the options and chose the one that's best for me.
One that doesn't put me in the situation where a controller failure is going to shut me down for more than a few minutes because the controllers are 100% interchangeable, readily available (and cheap), I don't have to outsource assistance, and I don't have to find or dink with some possibly buggy unreliable software.

Now, if you are the sort of person that drives a Mac truck to go get groceries then more power to you.
-
I have a solution that works for me and in 11 years of using these cards I've had,,, um,,, um,, tryin'a remember,,, ZERO failures and ZERO compatibility problems even with dual-boot multi-OS setups.

~ You ya'll can just stop tryin'a sell me some problematic solution I don't have a need for anyway. - If you wanna do things the hard way because it gives you some sort of bragging right more power to ya.
Enjoy.

.

[bgavin]

Re: RAID 5 question

Bgavin, you don't follow threads very well. At least this one.

Thanks once again, for yet another insult.

Perhaps I don't follow your threads well, because you post so damn many of them.
One can always count on PCBONEZ to use Authoritative Voice on each and every topic.

I do respond when you are pontificating and get it wrong. At first, I was thinking you were a true expert, but it is apparent that you are just another arm-chair quarterback hiding behind a phony screen name and nebulous location.

Mr. Bonez (not your real name), I conclude you are a blow hard. I contract to the "industrial" arena, not the "consumer" arena. I also don't play semantical games twisting words around about robotics vs. industry. I also have 34 years in this business doing engineering work on disk products you have obviously never seen.

Tell you what: I will no longer point out your erroneous bullshit, and you can stop insulting me line-by-line. You are not the only individual on this board that has a shitload of in-depth experience. Time for you to learn this.

[Per Hansson]

Re: RAID 5 question

PCBONEZ; Apologiez for posting free advice in your thread

Since you obviously took offense I will stay away from your threads

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

Mr. Avin (not your real name),
I haven't claimed to be an expert.
If you assumed I am it must have been from something I did.
I'm confident in what I know and if I don't know I ask.
Do you always hear voices when you read?

-
I was working with equipment that used RAM drives in the 80's. - A technology that is industrial and has yet to make it into a consumer arena or even your 'industrial' arena.
Equipment that was very much computers but not PC's. (>PERSONAL< computers)
-
I had no interest at all in *P*Cs until the late 1990's but within 3 years I gained enough knowledge to support a family from an income in that field after I retired from the government job. For the last 3 years I've been phasing that activity out and learning something new because I'm now partially disabled, require much more chair time than standing time, and I just plain want to do something else. Over those last 3 years I've helped to maintain my proficiency in PC's by assisting (donating my time) over 2000 people to repair their own computers DIY via on-line.

I find it laughable when old 'experts' perpetuate the same old wisdoms that may or may not have been true 10 or 15 years ago without ever stepping back and looking at what they are actually doing, if it still applies, and what (if anything) they are actually gaining for all the trouble.
[Not just you, this is common and I do it too. - But I laugh when I get caught...]
-
People worrying about the 'memory effect' in LI rechargeable batteries is one of my favorites and a great example. Modern LI don't have one.
-
Using a hardware RAID to 'increase performance' in a *P*C is another because it's been accepted for several years now that it's a waste of time. Yet, the old knowledge keeps perpetuating and regenerating itself.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...px?i=2101&p=11
http://www.storagereview.com/php/cms...art=6&range=10

I would think someone in the business of engineering work on disk products would be aware of 4 years old industry related information from reputable sources that changes things around.

The point to challenging the old wisdom is for someone to learn something.
- Sometimes it's me.
- Sometimes it's them.
- Sometimes both.
- It's all good.
The closed minded people get mad and shut down.
That's a shame. Yet humorous. Human nature does interesting things.

Same-same with "more is better" ideas. (laughable)
Some kid slapping a carb on his engine that's so big the damned thing won't start.
Sticking a 4700uF in there where a 1000uF was.
Hunting doves with a rifle.
An email/web surfing only computer with 4Gb memory.
Watering petunias with a fire hose.
Using a hardware RAID in a PERSONAL computer.
- These are all the same thing.

Something that makes a server work better does not by default make a standard *P*C work better too, nor is it necessarily beneficial.

What is beneficial is matching the equipment to the need.
A *P*C doesn't need a hardware controller.
A light server doesn't even need a hardware controller.
And I don't need a hardware controller.

And incidentally, something expressed as an -opinion- is NEVER wrong regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

PCBONEZ; Apologiez for posting free advice in your thread

Since you obviously took offense I will stay away from your threads

[willawake]

Re: RAID 5 question

Mr. Avin (not your real name),

actually he's one of the few who does use his real name here. except you missed a letter.

[shadow]

Re: RAID 5 question

I am a poor business owner with lots of vital data I don't wanna lose.
- I do backup.

I reviewed all the options and chose the one that's best for me.
One that doesn't put me in the situation where a controller failure is going to shut me down for more than a few minutes because the controllers are 100% interchangeable, readily available (and cheap), I don't have to outsource assistance, and I don't have to find or dink with some possibly buggy unreliable software.

Now, if you are the sort of person that drives a Mac truck to go get groceries then more power to you.
-
I have a solution that works for me and in 11 years of using these cards I've had,,, um,,, um,, tryin'a remember,,, ZERO failures and ZERO compatibility problems even with dual-boot multi-OS setups.

~ You ya'll can just stop tryin'a sell me some problematic solution I don't have a need for anyway. - If you wanna do things the hard way because it gives you some sort of bragging right more power to ya.
Enjoy.

.

No need to be overly worked up.
I was not making a comment directly directed towards yourself.

My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek however all I was stating is that a business without any sort of backup procedure tend to get burnt sooner or later and tend to pay large sums of money on proprietary data recovery software or on professional data recovery services. Mainly because financial (as well as other data) can be extremely valuable and can not be replicated.

Just out of curiosity, what RAID card(s) do you use/recommend.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

Sorry if I pissed people off.
Contrary to appearances I don't actually get mad when I'm arguing a point.
Too bad that's not universal.

I have never claimed to be an expert. If I sound authoritative that probably stems from working in an occupation where people can die simply because of poor communication. (And unfortunately I've seen that happen to people I 'used' to know.) I like to be clear and understood. That doesn't make me right all the time.

actually he's one of the few who does use his real name here. except you missed a letter.

I'm aware of that.
Thing is using you real name, giving your location, and creating links that disclose your eb_y ID makes exactly as much security sense (actually less) as going online without an anti-virus installed. You'd think someone with 34 years experience would know a whole lot better. - I didn't use the correct spelling because no additional assistance is needed in his personal insecurity program.

Avin (ahem) thinks I'm a poser and I think he is.
- So be it.

.

[Bookworm]

Re: RAID 5 question

Hardware RAID vs Software RAID.

Considering that just about any card under 300 _is_ software raid, it's hard to say. Once you get above that, you _will_ get better performance with hardware RAID; with the caveat that it has to be one of the controllers with 1) a built in heavy duty processor, 2) on-board ram for caching, and 3) on-board battery.

Once you've done that, unless you're doing some seriously heavy duty work, you're not in the financial ballpark to make it worthwhile to compare the differences.

On the 'Software RAID' part, the 'HostRAID' solutions like Adaptec sells don't give you much benefit. They _do_ require the operating system to do the work for you. If you're going to do that, AND you run Linux, don't even put any effort into buying one. Just use the built in software RAID functions. If configured correctly (which I haven't gotten right yet. It's on the list), It'll function with a dead drive, rebuild on a new one, (RAID5) and in mirroring, boot on its own with the other drive removed.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

Thank you.

[kikkoman]

Re: RAID 5 question

update:

got it working so far, win xp is up and running. i low-levelled the drives and used a different (tweaked) txt-mode driver.
when i tried to install win2k before, i found out that it has a driver included that's even working (unlike the official IBM driver).

BUT: it's slow. controller and drives support U2W scsi which is capable of 80MB/s, but i get a maximum read speed of ~15MB/s, no matter if i use RAID 0 or 5. don't even ask about write speeds.
looks more like SCSI-2 (fast wide) to me, but i have no idea how to check the operating SCSI mode. any ideas?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: RAID 5 question

Specifically what are the drives?