Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

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  • WHaThEFLuX
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Feb 2015
    • 277
    • USA

    #81
    Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

    I'll check that now, how do I go about measuring ERC?

    Or I should say where is that located?

    I replaced 4 fets and their corresponding resistors along with transistor DG302, TW suggested I replace the driver as well, I believe it's IC502.
    Last edited by WHaThEFLuX; 03-03-2015, 05:11 PM.
    "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

    -retiredcaps

    Comment

    • tom66
      EVs Rule
      • Apr 2011
      • 32560
      • UK

      #82
      The blue caps are the ERC voltage. Energy Recovery Circuit. Basically make a plasma panel much more efficient by extracting energy that would otherwise be wasted on every sustain cycle.

      My set (a TX-P42U30B, but same SN board) had bad IC502 and I think Q531 was suspect too. Initially got the soldering on them wrong - set would power up with a grey screen for 2s then shut down with 6 red blinks. Maybe try lifting Q441 and D481 - this will isolate the ERC path, the green LED should NOT light up and you should get a brief grey flash on the screen before the set shuts down. This would confirm the ERC path is the cause of your fault. It would also eliminate a panel problem. Don't try and power this up too many times as it will be stressing the SUS IGBTs (the ERC gives them an easy life, soft switching them...)
      Last edited by tom66; 03-03-2015, 05:12 PM.
      Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
      For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

      Comment

      • WHaThEFLuX
        Badcaps Veteran
        • Feb 2015
        • 277
        • USA

        #83
        Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

        Interesting, I replaced Q441 and D481, so I should lift them, reinstall the SN board and power on?
        "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

        -retiredcaps

        Comment

        • tom66
          EVs Rule
          • Apr 2011
          • 32560
          • UK

          #84
          Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

          Yep, just see what happens, only try it a few times to see if you get that very brief priming glow. If you're REALLY lucky you might even get a brief "no signal" message before it cuts out
          Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
          For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

          Comment

          • WHaThEFLuX
            Badcaps Veteran
            • Feb 2015
            • 277
            • USA

            #85
            Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

            Just checked the blue caps on the SS and SN again, on both of them one side reads 200 and the other side 100.....Should I still lift the components?
            "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

            -retiredcaps

            Comment

            • tom66
              EVs Rule
              • Apr 2011
              • 32560
              • UK

              #86
              Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

              You need to measure -across- the caps, sorry if that was not clear. i.e. pos one end neg other end... it does not matter which way around pos/neg are,
              Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
              For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

              Comment

              • WHaThEFLuX
                Badcaps Veteran
                • Feb 2015
                • 277
                • USA

                #87
                Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                ok now I understand, measured across and got ~110 on the SS board and ~95 on the SN.
                "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                -retiredcaps

                Comment

                • tom66
                  EVs Rule
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 32560
                  • UK

                  #88
                  Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                  Well your ERC circuit is working so I would try and figure out why the -VAD is low. Perhaps try lifting off the SUS IGBTs (up/down) and see if it comes back. Did you replace any of the driver ICs for ERC or SUS portion? (there are two drivers for each group of IGBTs...) Small little chips, pretty tricky to work with.
                  Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                  For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                  Comment

                  • WHaThEFLuX
                    Badcaps Veteran
                    • Feb 2015
                    • 277
                    • USA

                    #89
                    Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                    I didn't replace any drivers, but to take us back to where we started, I assume when you wanted me to measure at -VAD you wanted me to across as well? When I do that I get 190, and VFG is 180.
                    "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                    -retiredcaps

                    Comment

                    • WHaThEFLuX
                      Badcaps Veteran
                      • Feb 2015
                      • 277
                      • USA

                      #90
                      Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                      UPDATE:

                      After reflecting on why I've spent so many of my waking hours obsessed with this set, I decided to go over all my solder connections just to see if anything was amiss. Turns out Q441 had somehow come loose and was slightly lifted off the board. I touched that up and gave it one more shot. After power up the SN board made an awful buzzing almost hissing kind of sound, then out of nowhere, I got the no signal box on the screen! After about 15 seconds there was a pop and now I'm back to square one, however I know the panel's good!

                      So here's where I'm at; Q441, D481, Q451, and D461 are now all shorted. Do I order those components and try again or should I assume there's something else seriously wrong with the board?
                      "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                      -retiredcaps

                      Comment

                      • tom66
                        EVs Rule
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 32560
                        • UK

                        #91
                        Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                        So, the ER circuit went POP.. I suspect something is wrong with the little driver IC502/Q531... did you replace those? They fail about half of the time on this model.
                        Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                        For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                        Comment

                        • WHaThEFLuX
                          Badcaps Veteran
                          • Feb 2015
                          • 277
                          • USA

                          #92
                          Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                          I did not replace those but I guess I'll order them along with two new DG302s, is there any way to test IC502 and Q531?
                          "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                          -retiredcaps

                          Comment

                          • tom66
                            EVs Rule
                            • Apr 2011
                            • 32560
                            • UK

                            #93
                            Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                            Yes, but given they cost so little I would always replace them anyway. They are tricky to replace though.
                            Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                            For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                            Comment

                            • WHaThEFLuX
                              Badcaps Veteran
                              • Feb 2015
                              • 277
                              • USA

                              #94
                              Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                              I just ordered them, if you could tell me how to test the ones that are on the board that'd be great, apparently my reflow skills aren't as good as I thought. But I was able to find a working SN board for cheap, so even if I hack my board to pieces I'll still be able to get the set working.


                              Any tips on replacing them? Besides being accurate, it's pretty much just lifting the bad ones and dropping the new ones in right?
                              Last edited by WHaThEFLuX; 03-04-2015, 12:21 PM.
                              "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                              -retiredcaps

                              Comment

                              • tom66
                                EVs Rule
                                • Apr 2011
                                • 32560
                                • UK

                                #95
                                Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                                I would say, reasonably difficult to do if you've not done it before. Main issue is alignment. Getting them off is pretty easy. You need a good soldering iron which is temperature regulated (usually if it has a display or adjustment dial with a blinking LED, it's regulated) and steady hands. I use a jeweler's loupe to inspect the soldering before powering it up. Don't apply too much heat or you can damage the board which can make it a real pain to repair.
                                Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                                For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                                Comment

                                • WHaThEFLuX
                                  Badcaps Veteran
                                  • Feb 2015
                                  • 277
                                  • USA

                                  #96
                                  Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                                  Sounds difficult but doable......sorry for being so persistent but I'd love to have a way of testing IC502 and Q531.
                                  "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                                  -retiredcaps

                                  Comment

                                  • tom66
                                    EVs Rule
                                    • Apr 2011
                                    • 32560
                                    • UK

                                    #97
                                    Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                                    Test between pins 7 and 8 for Vcc to OUT short, and pins 3 and 7 for GND to OUT short for IC502.
                                    Test between pins 1 and 4 for top NPN short, and pins 2 and 4 for bottom PNP short for Q531.

                                    Does not eliminate possibility of internal, invisible damage, though...
                                    Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                                    For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                                    Comment

                                    • WHaThEFLuX
                                      Badcaps Veteran
                                      • Feb 2015
                                      • 277
                                      • USA

                                      #98
                                      Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                                      7-8 and 3-7 on IC502 are giving me ~1800, 1-4 on Q531 is ~1800 as well, and 2-4 is giving me ~80 and then steadily rising.......not sure what to make of it, when I get the new pieces I'll compare them.

                                      I'm confident in my abilities but there's a good chance that those components won't make it onto the board alive once I have my way with them. With that being said, should I attempt the IC/transistor swap or just throw the two new DG302s on again and hope for the best? Since I'm almost certain something is shorted would putting the DG302s on and firing it up definitely just pop them again?

                                      At this point it doesn't really matter since I've got a good board on the way. I've given it the good ole' college try and just want the set working, but I'm really determined to get my original SN board working or fry it trying.
                                      "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                                      -retiredcaps

                                      Comment

                                      • WHaThEFLuX
                                        Badcaps Veteran
                                        • Feb 2015
                                        • 277
                                        • USA

                                        #99
                                        Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                                        If anyone's still with me, I lifted Q441 and D481, powered on and got the brief grey flash. Does this confirm beyond all doubt that the ERC path is indeed the problem and IC502 & Q531 need to be replaced? As I'm staring at them in my hand, I can't help but feel like they're about to become tiny melted globs of failure all over the board.

                                        Nevertheless, I'm not going down without a fight!

                                        If anyone can tell me what temp I should set my station at I'd really appreciate, 340°C seems to take forever but when I go higher things start to get a little crispy.
                                        "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                                        -retiredcaps

                                        Comment

                                        • WHaThEFLuX
                                          Badcaps Veteran
                                          • Feb 2015
                                          • 277
                                          • USA

                                          #100
                                          Re: Panasonic TCP42S30 SN Board reflow-Help out a noob!

                                          So IC502 and Q531 are on the board.

                                          I found these components to be easier than the the other ones surprisingly, except for their size, they came off and back on very quickly. I'm just waiting on the two DG302s to come in the mail then I'll be ready to fire her up again, anything I should look out for?
                                          "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                                          -retiredcaps

                                          Comment

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