Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6K4xBVweA

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

Ha, I've watched that video a few times. My board is a bit more confusing. Here's what I came up with on the left side. Not sure I'll have time to get to the right side today, but I'll try

and

I was getting weird readings with the TCON unplugged so I just unplugged the whole unit in between reading each pad. The numbers given are as it stabilized right before shutting off.

Any thoughts? The sequence is a little hard to understand and it's not a straightforward as I thought it would be. The one on the very top and bottom seem to be the most off.

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

Thus far, I've tried replacing the right and left Balancer boards, and, as stated, the main board.

OK, here is the top right side:

and the bottom:


I'm at a total loss. Anything stand out to you smart folks?

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

I can get all 4 of these boards for 16 bucks on ebay. I'd rather just try and determine which one(s) is/are bad though. Or try and open the panel to see if one of the bulbs doesn't light.

16 bucks is tempting though, it just feels sort of defeatist.

what would you guys recommend?

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

OK, I read the thread again, are you getting 13 Error? or 14 Error? Page 59 of the training manual. 0V = BAD, 11.5 = OK.
Balancer Error (13X)This protect feature is not utilized in the models using the 32 and 37-inch panels although it appears in the diagnostics screen. Only models that use balancer boards have this feature.If one or more of the backlight lamps fails to light, the balancer loop will cause the BAL_ERR line at pin 1 of CN1410 to go low from its normally high state (11.5VDC). In virtually all cases you will see the backlights turn on before the unit shuts down. Once a balancer error is detected the unit turns off and blinks the standby LED in groups of 13. Unlike the inverter error detection, the unit will not make another attempt once it shuts down.This event is most likely caused by a defective lamp. In the models that use 52-inch panels it is possible that one of the 2 inverter boards has failed and can be detected by one side of the screen appearing slightly darker during the brief period before shutdown.

Balancer Errors When a balancer error occurs, we at least have the ability to observe the lighting of the lamps before the unit shuts down. The unit must a have a correctly functioning inverter to start the lamps and allow the balancer detect circuit to function. In some cases, the lamps may light long enough to see active video or snow for a couple of seconds. Observing the backlighting of the panel at this time is a great tool in determining what is causing the shutdown. NOTE: Unlike an inverter error where the unit will make 3 attempts to start the inverter, a blanacer error will cause the unit to cycle 2 times before the protect shutdown occurs.Remember, the purpose of the balancer detect circuit is to monitor a lamp that will not startup. Unless a particular model has a history of a related component causing balancer error shutdowns to occur, it will usually be a defective lamp and that will require replacement of the entire LCD panel. A lamp that is not lighting is difficult to spot due to the efficiency of the diffuser panel to spread the light.In models that use inverter boards on both sides, observe the screen for uneven lighting from one side to another. This indicates a faulty inverter board and the side that is darkest is where the failed inverter resides.

Inverter Error (6X)Entering the BU board at pin 3 of CN1401, the inverter error line is normally low. This line goes high whenever the inverter loses one or both of the AC lamp drive outputs. This may occur because of a failure of the inverter or when the inverter is stopped because the OCP or OVP circuits on the inverter board have detected a problem.If IC3001 detects a high on the inverter error line the unit will make 3 attempts to get the inverter to start running. In almost all cases, the backlights will never light. The exception to this is if the inverter is starting but it’s over or under-voltage circuits are stopping it. During this cycle time the clicking of the main relay will be heard as the unit turns on and off. If the unit was last set to an input with active audio you may hear this for a moment.

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

No, unfortunately I have the 14 blink error which is the HFR (high frame rate) error. I haven't been able to figure what that even is exactly. The error points to the panel itself, but Sony considered the TCON, LCD panel, and backlights to all be the "LCD panel" during diagnostics. Apparently, an HFR error can be triggered by some other things too.

Adding to this, they used different boards based on the serial number, and the tag on the bag of the TV was scraped off so it's very difficult to determine what to do. Even just willy nilly replacing boards doesn't help, as I'm not sure if I'm replacing the right serial # dependent boards. I haven't been able to reverse determine it either, by using the board types I have, as I can't seem to find a list anywhere, just people saying you need to be careful which ones you buy.

Is there anyway to determine if it is the TCON without buying one? Or do I just have to buy one and throw it in there and see?

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

HFR = Motion upconverter for 120Hz picture. Is there a separate board in between t-con & main board?

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

No, the motion chip is on the TCON.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

In which case, that seems to point to t-con board being at fault.

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

hahaha, it does, doesn't it?
I didn't realize that the error was referring to the motionchip. I thought it was some other type of error, or group of errors that they simply called an HFR error. Why doesn't any of the literature/forums/internets say to replace the TCON when you have an HFR error?

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

Can you show us a picture of t-con, just to confirm it has MOTIONFLOW chip? Because sometimes Sony puts it on the main board.

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

From the manual:

The major difference between the V and W series (other than cosmetics) is the addition of a high frame-rate circuit within the TCON board. These models utilize 120HZ refresh-rate panels.

I'll go grab a pic right now to confirm.

Edit:

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

The SONY chip is the motionflow processor, on the t-con board.

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

Yeah, isn't it a samsung chip they just bolt the sony brand on?

Thanks for this, and one last question. Do you know how I go about confirming that I get the right TCON for my serial#, without actually knowing my serial#?

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

It might not be, because it's smaller than the ones in the Samsung TVs of the same generation. It's probably a very high performance custom DSP, running Sony software; though not actually made by Sony. (Sony's Bravia Engine, for example, is made by NEC.)

You want to match the 404652ASN... number. That is all.

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

So, after shopping around, I've noticed that the TCON boards for several related TVs in the family (46 w/v 4100, 40 w/v/4100) all have the same model board. However, there is are three boxes printed onto the board labelled 40, 46, and 52 respectively. There is a serial # sticker affixed to the appropriate box for the appropriate size of the TV. For instance, in the pic just above, the sticker is in the lower right where "52" is printed. Not sure if it matters, but with sony and it's EEPROM stuff, it doesn't hurt.

Also, I couldn't find a reputable dealer with one in stock so I ebayed it. And all the sellers seemed shady. I hate that.

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

The number on that bar code sticker (52 box) is the PCBA (Printed Circuit Board Assembly) number that you need to match.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

That being said, I put a 46" T-con in a 40" panel before with no problem. May be related to production lot grouping?

[budm]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

Looks like there are serial range where the board is used.
http://www.shopjimmy.com/sony-1-857-...-con-board.htm

[withalligators]

Re: Sony KDL - 52W4100 powers off after turn on, gives 14 blinks

I saw that. Luckily, *I think* I've ordered the right part. At least according to the ebay picture. But it's a lot auction, so I won't be surprised if the item I get is different. Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised if I got a gumball machine from some of these sellers.