the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

[Per Hansson]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

That's a new one: it is a board designed for a 80mm side fan where they instead mounted a 120mm top fan to make it look modern, lol!
The plastic baffle on the fan is common: it makes sure to direct the airflow over the PCB.
Without it the air would take the easy way out skipping the PCB.
It is of course moreso important in a PSU like this where as you say 1/3 of the case is empty
PSU itself does not look too shabby though, I'm sure it could deliver 200w without exploding

[Topcat]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

That's a new one: it is a board designed for a 80mm side fan where they instead mounted a 120mm top fan to make it look modern, lol!

I was thinking that as well....but every PSU I've see with a 120mm fan in the bottom side had a PCB that consumed the entire depth of the case

The plastic baffle on the fan is common: it makes sure to direct the airflow over the PCB.

I had never seen that before.... I figured it had to be some reason like that...

Without it the air would take the easy way out skipping the PCB.
It is of course moreso important in a PSU like this where as you say 1/3 of the case is empty

In depth measurement, 1/3 empty is an accurate number!!!

PSU itself does not look too shabby though, I'm sure it could deliver 200w without exploding

Well, that's about half what it's rated for...

[PeteS in CA]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

With those heatsinks it might be good for 200-250 Watts. Unless those input caps are extra tall they look a bit small for 680uF. 470uF seems more plausible. The output inductor looks pretty wimpy, too, and since it's -26 material it's probably a ~30KHz half bridge design.

[momaka]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Here's a super junky PSU, reported here at Per's request!

The junker in question is a "Manhattan PUF405S" ATX power supply.

That's a funny model number: PUF....
I guess they mean the thing will go *poof* at 400 Watts.

In all honestly, though, this is actually not a bad power supply at all. It surely won't do 400 Watts, but 200 Watts will probably be just OK... so more or less enough for a basic modern system with a built-in or very low-end GPU.

Going by this picture...
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1618858628
... I can tell you that the green transformers and the style of those QC stickers makes this one 100% a CWT (Channel Well) unit. I think this is a replacement for their old budget-oriented ISO series line from a few decades ago. I actually have a very similar ThermalTake PSU, but with a 80 mm fan. Model number was something like TR420 or similar (implying 420 Watts? ) I've been meaning to take pictures of it, post it here, and then recap it... but just have been working on other PSUs instead and this one's been on the back burner for a few years, given that it's not really "spectacular" in any way, as you noted yourself.

That said, it does appear to be a single-transistor forward unit (probably designed around a UC384x IC), so it won't do too bad efficiency-wise (mid 70's or low 80's %, perhaps) and should be pretty safe to use in any modern PC. The 5V/12V combined output inductor seems decently sized for that task, despite being a lower-tier Micrometals -26 type core (T103-26?) So the 12V rail should be able to handle the bulk of the load, as is expected from a modern PSU today. However, the tiny 3.3V output toroid is puny. Will definitely have to be careful what system this powers up - i.e. possibly avoid motherboards with really power-hungry chipsets that get power from the 3.3V rail (or older motherboards where the CPU V_tt is generated from the 3.3V rail and the CPU is power-hungry, like a socket 775 Pentium 4/D or similar)... though that's hardly an issue these days. This PSU certainly won't be happy with an old 5V-heavy either... or just any very old system in general.

Then WTF is this goofy air deflector on the fan?!? Never seen anything like that on all my years....

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1618858628

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1618858628

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1618858628

That's actually very common in A LOT of PSUs with 120/140 mm top-side fans. As Per noted, it diverts the airflow so that that air starts from the front of the PSU, passes through the heatsinks and components, and then exits through the back vent. Otherwise, PSU may end up with places with small air vortexes and develop hot spots. So this helps that.

You might have not seen it in other PSUs, because they typically use clear plastic sheets. But this being a budget PSU, I guess CWT used whatever was the cheapest. Just doesn't look too pretty. (And if I may add, that blue fan looks rather tacky too.)

More of the puny sinks. Secondary caps are Samxon GF series, known to be a bit problematic....but these appear to be good...

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1618858628

Yup, that's exactly what's in my ThermalTake CWT PSU. Most, if not all (IIRC) of the caps were 1000 uF, 8 mm diameter, though I think I remember seeing a spot or two for 10 mm caps (but they still fitted 8 mm caps.) So yeah, given the output capacity, it certainly shouldn't be pushed past 200 Watts for noise to stay reasonable.

Recapping it would likely smooth that out....but this one is just not worth it....I just wanted to autopsy it.

IDK man.
I recall not too long ago you included a recapped Allied or some similar unit in a low-end built. I think this PSU is better than most Allied/Deer/Solytech units overall. It's got full input EMI/RFI filter (at least for its real power rating of 200-250 Watts), proper bridge rectifier, properly-rated input wiring (looks like 600V), and normal-sized main transformer (appears to be ERL/EI35... though even ERL/EI33 will do for 200-250 Watts.) The nicest thing about it is actually the fact that it lacks APFC. Sure those input caps are a crappy (JunFu) brand. But with no APFC, those will likely outlast the primary caps of every APFC PSU - even ones with Japanese caps.
That said, if you do re-consider recapping it, first just check the output rectifier size on the 12V rail. If it's a 20 Amp part or better, it will do just fine - even with those tiny heatsinks - for a modern basic system. Only other issue you might run into is finding 8 mm caps for the output... but them being 1000 uF mostly (at least from what I recall from my PSU), it should be doable. For the 3.3V rail (and probably 5V rail too), you could use Rubycon ZLH 10V, 1500 uF (which you have in stock in your store, last time I bought caps from you - I still have a couple of these left in case of "emergencies" ).

All in all, this PSU looks not too far off from what you'd find in a modern Dell or HP with a Bestec or AcBel PSU. Heck, even modern Delta, LiteOn, and HiPro OEM PSUs aren't too far from this anymore - they all make them rather "light" now with barely any heatsinks, since most of the load is on the 12V rail and there just isn't as much heat generated.

[Topcat]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

^
I may set it aside for a modern SOC system, they are ridiculously efficient & kind to all rails.... The system it was powering was an Athlon XP 2600 w/ 9550 GPU, and was not the original; it was far too new for the era of the system. The system was stable for the most part, but under gaming type loads, it got miserably hot and I'd get random errors & lockups. It got even worse when testing with a 9800 (thought the GPU was bad at first, some of the symptoms were artifacting). I did try a different PSU, it fixed the issue before the system was dismantled. I'm not trusting of any of hte lytics in it, including the mains...and wouldn't even consider reuse until recapped.... I'm still undecided on whether I'll recap it or not. I couldn't believe how light duty the wires are....very fine gauge.

[momaka]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Unless those input caps are extra tall they look a bit small for 680uF. 470uF seems more plausible.

Yup, quite possible. Or they may be 560 uF, which is a standard size between 470 and 680. Not that it should matter too much, as even 470 uF will be fine for 200-250 Watts.

The output inductor looks pretty wimpy, too, and since it's -26 material it's probably a ~30KHz half bridge design.

Only 2 transformers in the PSU, so this is (and from what I recall from briefly analyzing my unit a few years ago) single-transistor forward design.

I may set it aside for a modern SOC system, they are ridiculously efficient & kind to all rails....

Yup, I was going to suggest exactly that. I saved mine for the same reason.

The system it was powering was an Athlon XP 2600 w/ 9550 GPU, and was not the original; it was far too new for the era of the system. The system was stable for the most part, but under gaming type loads, it got miserably hot and I'd get random errors & lockups.

Oof!
That's a really 5V/3.3V heavy combo right there. I'm surprised it didn't have a meltdown when you tried it with the Radeon 9800 (about 50 Watts from the 3.3V/5V rails just by itself.)

I've been abusing a lot of my recapped PSUs lately with a cheapo load tester I'm making - mostly doing just heavy 5V or 12V cross-loading tests while also bogging the PSUs down with a low line AC input, like I did with my KDMPower MIPC MI-X8775CD here.

From these tests, one thing I have concluded for sure is that a 5V-heavy cross-load will heat up things a lot more than a 12V-heavy cross load, because to draw the same amount of power, the current at 5V is much higher. So higher current multiplied by the voltage drop of a Schottky diode typically gives higher heat dissipation on the secondary heatsink. In my tests, I was able to get most PSUs to easily touch 60-65C on the secondary heatsink with a 5V-heavy load at room temperature. Same test with 12V-heavy load was about 10C lower temperatures... though that did vary a little bit between PSUs, depending if they also had Schottky vs. FR rectifiers for the 12V rail and if the 12V rail was ganged to the 5V rail output (more modern group-regulation design that yields better stability, but slightly less efficient.)

I'm not trusting of any of hte lytics in it, including the mains...

Well, if you do have spare input/HV/mains caps, go for it. They rarely fail, though, at least in these non-APFC PSUs. So long as the primary heatsink next to them doesn't get crazy-hot, they should survive for many many years. I still have Deer PSUs with original JEE input/primary caps - some of these being over 20 years old now. Did check one somewhat recently, and it was perfectly in spec.

I'm still undecided on whether I'll recap it or not. I couldn't believe how light duty the wires are....very fine gauge.

They might be 20 AWG copper, which could make them feel very thin and very soft. I pulled similar wires from an old JNC PSU. Saw the wires had a proper UL number, so OK'ed em for re-use on a 180-Watt Bestec PSU that had its wires cut. This was many years ago (over a decade, even?) Still have that Bestec PSU and use it for testing.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Here's a super junky PSU. The junker in question is a "Manhattan PUF405S" ATX power supply.

Recapping it would likely smooth that out....but this one is just not worth it....I just wanted to autopsy it.

not sure if that psu has apfc or not, judging by how barebones it is. but if it doesnt have apfc, then thats one good redeeming quality about it because apfc is shit and kills psus.

the second redeeming thing is that i like the fan which is a yate loon judging by the fan sticker. its a sleeve bearing to boot. i like yate loon sleeve bearing fans because they are cheap and cool well for the price while being quiet too. the only thing is that they need constant regular lubrication to work so i have a few of those types of YL fans and know how to deal with its quirks, so thats fine for me.

so sell it on junkbay for some loose change? im sure some of the psu guys here in this subforum wouldnt mind a 10 dollar ebay junk psu special offer. how bad can it be? we have a few threads on here just like that! hehehe!

[Topcat]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I've been abusing a lot of my recapped PSUs lately with a cheapo load tester I'm making - mostly doing just heavy 5V or 12V cross-loading tests while also bogging the PSUs down with a low line AC input, like I did with my KDMPower MIPC MI-X8775CD here.

I've been working on a load tester as well....you'll be able to figure out what for if paying attention to any of my other build threads. This is the design I've been building it around with a few revisions of my own......but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that's doing this.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Back in ancient times (the 20th Century!) I designed a quick go--no-go tester for ATX PSUs. I had resistors for each output, some sort of nominal load. The "cool" part was that I had a window-detector circuit for each output that drove LEDs. Each window detector used two TL430s (basically as a comparator with a reference on one input), with one stage checking if an output was too high, and the other checking if the output was too low. Dual comparators plus a reference IC could have been used, but what I did used less space and was more flexible. If an output was within spec, within the window, the LED would be on. It was in an ATX case. I ran it all, fan included, from a 9 volt battery. I should have run the fan from the PSU's 12V output, as the tester ate batteries.

[momaka]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

not sure if that psu has apfc or not, judging by how barebones it is.

Voltage selector switch is a tell-tale sign there won't be APFC.

i like yate loon sleeve bearing fans because they are cheap and cool well for the price while being quiet too. the only thing is that they need constant regular lubrication to work so i have a few of those types of YL fans and know how to deal with its quirks, so thats fine for me.

I like them too.
They don't need constant lubrication. Just a proper one done once.
Clean up old grease well (with dry paper). Then scratch light "grooves" in the sleeve bearing parallel to the shaft. After that, clean everything with IPA and add machine oil. So long as the bearing is not too worn out, the oil should hold well for a good few years at least.

so sell it on junkbay for some loose change? im sure some of the psu guys here in this subforum wouldnt mind a 10 dollar ebay junk psu special offer.

Nah, don't make a crappy PSU someone else's problem.
Besides, what if none of us buy it? Then it really will become someone else's problem and possibly send more hardware to the dump / trash. Better to either fix the PSU right or just dismantle it for parts so that it can't be used as a PSU anymore.

Also, $10 for a junky PSU? - HA!
I've been buying them for $1-2 a pop lately. Shipping is another story... but I typically try to stay under $12-13 total, unless it's a more decent PSU - then I might go up to $15, lol.
Been noticing a lot of Bestec ATX-250's lately (12Z, not the "killer" types) - some working and some for parts... but they all need new caps at this point, regardless of the description. These are good basic 250W PSUs for SOC PCs and/or basic PCs. Have one I recapped 10 years ago (or thereabouts) and still working fine, being bounced around various temporary builds.

I've been working on a load tester as well....you'll be able to figure out what for if paying attention to any of my other build threads.

Cool!
Will see if I can. Haven't checked threads as thoroughly lately on BCN in the last few weeks.

This is the design I've been building it around with a few revisions of my own......but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that's doing this.

Oh, that's too clean-looking for my taste.

Mine's still a "bird's nest" on the floor as I'm playing around with how to configure it best. The heart and soul of the whole thing is based around a 3000 Watt, 240V dryer heating element that I found discarded in a dumpster a few years back. It's got exposed Nichrome wire heating element, making it easy to tap to any resistance I want. So technically, I could wire it for up to 3000 Watts. 0.o But I'll probably settle for 360-720 Watts... which should still be plenty, I think.

Back in ancient times (the 20th Century!) I designed a quick go--no-go tester for ATX PSUs. I had resistors for each output, some sort of nominal load. The "cool" part was that I had a window-detector circuit for each output that drove LEDs. Each window detector used two TL430s (basically as a comparator with a reference on one input), with one stage checking if an output was too high, and the other checking if the output was too low. Dual comparators plus a reference IC could have been used, but what I did used less space and was more flexible. If an output was within spec, within the window, the LED would be on. It was in an ATX case. I ran it all, fan included, from a 9 volt battery. I should have run the fan from the PSU's 12V output, as the tester ate batteries.

Nice.

Well, nowadays, they make such testers for about $5-7... or $10 if you want one with an LCD display that tells you the voltages (down to 1 decimal place.) I actually thought about getting one of those for mine and then simply just wire my loads to it, since it has all of the connectors and whatnot (I'm still debating about doing that.) But for now, I'm going to keep it as simple and cheap as possible, using only junk/scrap parts I have accumulated.

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

No. Just NO.

[TechGeek]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

L&C - Laughable & Crappy

[momaka]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

No. Just NO.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1631352784

This has to be one of the lamest attempts for a PC PSUs I've seen. Sure it's only an AT power supply and AT PCs weren't exactly known for their high power draw. But still... this is lame.

L&C - Laughable & Crappy

Truly!
Or you could go with Lame & Crappy.
Either way, it's garbage.

That said, I'd still keep that PSU - for spare parts. If I were to keep it though, it would look a lot more like this after I am "done" with it:

[Uranium-235]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

No. Just NO.

Oof. Just four diodes instead of a rectifier.

Edit: What PSU brand is that? Raidmax?

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Oof. Just four diodes instead of a rectifier.

Edit: What PSU brand is that? Raidmax?

ASIC LC-200C. So technically a Deer/L&C, and it's AT.

Just for ÜBER laugh material, I'll actually take my time and upgrade it accordingly. Heck, I might still have some leftover parts from upgraded ATX L&C and Allied units.

Surprisingly the rest of the PC wasn't that shabby, but still cheapo. Two CD-RW drives (Toshiba + LG), a Quantum LCT10 drive (which I left to the owner of the PC, as he had some special programs on it that weren't particularily easy to find.) and ultimately, a fairly interesting PCChips M726MRT mobo, which apart from the heatsink, sports the real deal chips with no rebranding. Instead of saying "SOUNDPRO + HT1869 PCI", there's a C-Media 8738 PCI chipset (which I know ASUS also used, though in a much more advanced flavour, MX or LX I think?) and most of the ALi chips actually say ALi. That, and most caps seem to be Teapos of relatively decent quality (not the greatest, but not the worst either.), which kinda surprises me, knowing full well PCChips would be the one brand to utterly cheap out on caps worse than L&C/Deer and Sun Pro even do.

Most chips on it seem fairly real deal (BIOS chip isn't marked HT like on some M558 I had, instead it's MXIC 29F001TPC-12), except for a Genesys Logic GL520SM-42S17 which I never heard of.
I must've hit some sort of golden sample I guess?

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I'll probably be punished for actually putting this to a use... but the form factor is the advantage in this case. Granted, it's for a Super Socket 7 build I intend to take with me to college, as sort of a "PC" to have when I am truly bored. Specs include 2k SP4, a Geforce 2 Pro, about 256MB RAM, a Yamaha soundcard, and a 40GB Maxtor Fireball 3 HDD.

[momaka]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I'll probably be punished for actually putting this to a use... but the form factor is the advantage in this case. Granted, it's for a Super Socket 7 build...

Should be OK for it, as those don't need that much power either.
The heatsinks on that PSU are actually not that bad... or at least, not the thinest I've seen. However, the label is a complete and utter lie. 30 Amps on the 5V rail? With a single cap filtering the output?
If somehow that is managed, I definitely wanna see what the ripple would look like on a scope!

Also, I've been doing experiments on a few older (but well-built) PSUs of my own... and even on those, 20 Amps on the 5V rail is usually already enough to make the secondary heatsink and output toroid very hot - especially when cross-loading the PSU for 5V heavy draw and light load on the 12V rail. Just from this alone, I can see why modern systems switched to 12V rail designs and why PSUs use synchronous rectification. A big part in loss of efficiency is from the rectifiers (voltage drop times average rectified current) on the secondary side.

Anyways, I see you put some Rubycon (MBZ?) on the output (3.3V and 5V rails?) Looks like 3300 uF. Should probably do OK for up to 10 Amps on each of those rails. Also, I see "VZ(M)" written on the primary caps. Did they try to make those into fake/counterfeit Nichicon's? And on that note, the Y2 caps on the primary also look counterfeit / not real Y2-class rated.

[Topcat]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

No. Just NO.

Yikes...........just yikes....

[Per Hansson]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Yikes...........just yikes....

Agreed: putting the QC sticker on so carelessly like that.
WHAT where they thinking in an otherwise so immaculate build?

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Should be OK for it, as those don't need that much power either.
The heatsinks on that PSU are actually not that bad... or at least, not the thinest I've seen. However, the label is a complete and utter lie. 30 Amps on the 5V rail? With a single cap filtering the output?
If somehow that is managed, I definitely wanna see what the ripple would look like on a scope!

Also, I've been doing experiments on a few older (but well-built) PSUs of my own... and even on those, 20 Amps on the 5V rail is usually already enough to make the secondary heatsink and output toroid very hot - especially when cross-loading the PSU for 5V heavy draw and light load on the 12V rail. Just from this alone, I can see why modern systems switched to 12V rail designs and why PSUs use synchronous rectification. A big part in loss of efficiency is from the rectifiers (voltage drop times average rectified current) on the secondary side.

Anyways, I see you put some Rubycon (MBZ?) on the output (3.3V and 5V rails?) Looks like 3300 uF. Should probably do OK for up to 10 Amps on each of those rails. Also, I see "VZ(M)" written on the primary caps. Did they try to make those into fake/counterfeit Nichicon's? And on that note, the Y2 caps on the primary also look counterfeit / not real Y2-class rated.

Sorry for not getting back at y'all in the first place, and now with some answers:

30A on the 5v rail - I know it's a utter lie. I'd have to replace the rectifier and filtering cap (despite being a genuine Rubycon)
Ripple? Would probably be high, but hey, it's a K6-2+ 500 we're talking about, not some advanced P4 or i3. Adding to that the fact that the mobo is also recapped with 1500uF 6.3v MBZs for the CPU side and 16v 1800uF for the RAM regulator since that LT1083 clone it uses gets horribly hot. No, it isn't broken, it's just running finger-burning hot in normal operation.

The whole config consists of this: 40GB Maxtor Fireball III 2F040J0, Geforce 2 Pro 64MB, 384MB RAM, an K6-2+ 500MHz, Realtek RTL8169SC NIC, Yamaha YMF-719 ISA soundcard, VIA VT6212 PCI USB2.0 card, all running on 98SE.

Secondary caps - yes, I have replaced the puny ChengX caps in there for good measure. This little box came to me with a partially seized fan (it was grinding horribly and lubing it up didn't help either) which I eventually replaced, as well as crappy "1500uF 16v" ChengX caps that were probably 220uF max. I used some Rubycons recycled from a dead mobo (don't exactly remember what socket it was, but it was newer than PGA370).

Main caps - AFAIK this isn't the first time I've seen the OEM use those Yongxing VZ fakes. Yes, the OEM (which at first I mistook for Codegen in an normal ATX PSU they built, but then figured it's some generic chinese OEM as the PWM chip (CG8002 ) didn't match up anything I'd be familiar with.) is notorious for using those crappy Yongxing caps in the primary. Unfortunately, I don't think I can find suitable replacements mainly because of the form factor it uses which doesn't allow me to just drop in some Yang Chung (Saturn) caps from Deers - at least those are less crappy (about as good as CapXon, which, while crappy, is at least better than using Fuhjyyu or Yongxing primaries.)

Topcat & Per Hannson - yes, it is that gutless. I already replaced the PCB with another AT PSU (an Essun 200W, which, while still uses the diodes-on-a-bracket for 12V, has much better construction than this crappy Deer.) and the machine it's powering (a 533MHz Mendocino Celeron on a PCChips M726MRT, which is a surprisingly rock solid board with no issues whatsoever - as rock stable as my Zida LX98-AT 440LX mobo, actually.) is running crash-free last time I powered it up.