Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

humm yeah I knew they weren't on the "greatest caps god ever shot gas up list" but didn't think they were quite that bad...
(well I got that impression)
OK so crap caps do the infinity have.

Actually I think thats the model or close to the old model I've got Gonzo and yeah I do remember you posting about them (I think you got 2 one was a different model)
(and yeah it isn't doing a whole lot of work now either, mine that is)

so the cooling is ok for the caps but sucks for the system.

Thanks Gonzo

Cheers

[gonzo0815]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

To say it clearly, i do not have any of the newer build Enermax, so i can`t say mutch about them and their cooling solution.

The caps are are may be the same grade like the Teapos or may be they are more like Ost.
I can not make a conclusive claim in which category they belong.
But nevertheless, i think they are crap and should not be a part of a PSu considered high end in therms and price.

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

your right there they are not a cheap PSU $230 AU for the Infiniti 620W which was what the Liberty was being sold for when I got it (around $200 for Liberty 620W now)
Retail type prices

The Corsair HX620W, cheapest Ive seen it is about $170 AU but mostly closer to the $200 (or more) AU
(not to get it to the rail thing but apparently uses 1 12 volt)

So I agree for that money they should have decent high quality caps even thought whats in there may last a long time regardless.
(in the case of the liberty in this post CTC's didn't see a year out...not good)

if you are expecting to put heavy demands on a supply then I really would look closer at their higher end performance and construction and has Gonzo mentions good ventilation for long term reliability is an important factor.

Cost should take a bit of a back seat here, its a matter of picking the right supply for the job

Generally speaking comment here
(and not in relation to anything in this thread)

Too many people don't pay enough attention to the psu in relation to the system as a whole (how many HDD etc ) and further down the track (if not from day 1) their system suffers cause of it.

buying any old case with psu and then trying to build a higher end gaming rig is a sure step to disaster in my opinion

pay as much attention to the psu selection as you would the video card selection

just my thoughts on it.

Cheers

[999999999]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

You won't get high-end in Enermax no matter what it costs. They like many target good web reviews where little *imperfections* like not beign able to meet the MTBF ratings for the labeled capacity isn't revealed in these short-term reviews when it's brand new.

Web reviewers perpetuate the problem, suggesting a PSU is ok if it works fine when new, ignoring that come components (notibly caps and fans) may not last for the (Otherwise) life of the unit. IMO, web reviewers need to wake up on these recurring problems and stop giving PSU good marks if it merely works ok with median or lower grade parts, they need to stop focusing on which has the lowest rippled and which can redline when brand new, and start focusing on real-world problems, whether the unit as build will work in a typical system for that system's entire life.

As for recapping the Liberty, yes that's a very good idea though it need not then be reserved for some low current system. On the contrary, once you have taken control of the problem and choose the good (proper) replacement parts it should have had all along, you have then upgraded it to the point where it may be superior to most PSU you could buy at the same price.

In other words, a PSU upgraded with premium caps is often a better alternative than you can buy at any reasonable price, unless the caps are so land-locked you're forced to use mostly 8 and 10mm caps on anything more than a low wattage unit.

[Super Nade]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

OST is just shit. Period. They are crap everywhere, in MB's, PSU's and more so on Audio systems.

Last week I recapped 3 boards with shit OST caps on them. Pictures can be found here:-
(Whole mess of pics, but you can see the OST's leaking in a couple of those pics).
http://picasaweb.google.com/super.na...3AntecTearDown

[Phanixis]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

I had one of these ELT620AWT power supply units fry on me less than two weaks ago, making a lot of noise, emitting smoke, and tripping a circuit breaker in the process. Fortunately, the rest of my computer is undamaged.

I am trying to get it replaced under warrant, but Enermax wants me to fill out there RMA form and email it back to them. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but there form is a .pdf file, and I can only read .pdf or compile it from source such as Latex, I can't edit them.

[999999999]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

I had one of these ELT620AWT power supply units fry on me less than two weaks ago, making a lot of noise, emitting smoke, and tripping a circuit breaker in the process. Fortunately, the rest of my computer is undamaged.

I am trying to get it replaced under warrant, but Enermax wants me to fill out there RMA form and email it back to them. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but there form is a .pdf file, and I can only read .pdf or compile it from source such as Latex, I can't edit them.

How about printing, filling in, faxing back to them?
Fax phone number is on the RMA form?

The irony of these !@#$ interactive PDF forms is sometimes the company/author didn't even "allow" the property for filling in the interactive fields, even when it's a purchase order. I actually had to use a password cracker just to enable filling in one (for different company, different form).

[mutant]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Well I've had my Enermax Liberty for a year and a half. Reading this thread made me open it up to see if any caps are swelling. None so far. They are the ctc 10v 3300uf.

So it is safe to replace them with 6.3v 3300uf? I replaced the smaller ones 10v 1000uf and 10v 1500uf with Rubycon 10v 2200uf. I guess that it might help. I probably shouldn't replace all the ctc 3300uf with the Rubycon 10v 2200uf.
So now all I have to do is get my hands on some good 6.3v 3300uf.

[Sparky]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Here is a liberty 620W owned by plywood99 from over at Xtremesystems. It went BOOM as well. It wasn't the caps this time though (although they are the ctc crap, they hadn't failed yet), check it out. Rectifier blew up and went into a permanent short condition which in turn vaporized the fuse. At least the fuse did its job if nothing else.

[Super Nade]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Looks like poor cooling did it in. Looks very dusty.

[999999999]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Rectifier blew up and went into a permanent short condition which in turn vaporized the fuse. At least the fuse did its job if nothing else.

There was some disagreement in one xtremesystems thread but it looks like that part was a mosfet, and from others accounts of a zapping sound when the unit is turned on, most likely due to insufficient inrush current limiting in an attempt to increase the unit's efficiency. It is not likely to be due to bad caps as one person had suggested even though that could possibly cause it. It would be quite cost effective to repair and then adding an NTC thermistor for current limiting if there really isn't any mechanism present.

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Thats interesting ...this looks like its the OTHER issue,
with them going BOOM!

This is the more worrying fault (or faults) on this side of the PSU
actual Cause seems to be unknown by the masses. humm

It would be nice to know whats really going on with this....

My thoughts are some aspect (parameter) of the AFC is being exceeded causing the failure but I am not an engineer so really don't have a clue.

Muntant (really more a general comment here)
not that I got a clue how the liberty is put together or high degree in the understanding of the design if I did.
I agree its probably a good Idea to change the caps but (really more a caution thing) just be careful straying to far from nominal values as it has to change the operational parameters to some degree.

Going to 3300uf 6v3 would probably be fine (they are across 3V3 5V most likely)

Keep us posted on how it goes.

Cheers

9's you replied while I was in the middle of this so I'll have to read it later got to run...sounds interesting...... post mine as is and it probably off base

[Sparky]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Looks like poor cooling did it in. Looks very dusty.

Doesn't look like an abnormal amount of dust to me...

[999999999]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Me either, it actually looks very clean compared to most I've seen after they'd ran for a few months, and since we see a light coating of dust we know it wasn't cleaned off from a prior dustier state.

[linuxguru]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

IMHO, APFC units are more susceptible to bad line conditions that PPFC units. YMMV, but I've had two PSUs with APFCs fail, while the count for PPFC is 0/4.

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

if you have a look at this site HERE , at the photos on this page

(its a review of the Enermax Liberty 620W 1st page

From the basic layout I am incline to agree that its a well cooked mosfet in the photo. although I don't know this for sure

If you look at the mains side second photo it looks like a standard bridge package with a Copper finned heat sink attached to it.

You can just see it behind in the first photo posed by Sparky.

for comparison here is the review of the Infiniti

On this page for the infiniti you will see what appears to be the bridge with heatsink clearer.

There is *some difference between the two but since there has been a few reports of the boom factor with the Liberties and none that I know of with the Infinities...what did they do right with it and wrong with the Liberty?
(*how large or small this difference is I have no idea, or with the supply design in general...since I'll never see the schematics for both thats probably the way it will remain to me)

Just on the A-PFC and the mains side controller
(whatever that is, and correction to my post above)

Enermax state, to be use with sine wave inverter (ups) only

the one I think it was minerva posted on was on board a ship when it went boom...I am not sure but think they go boom at startup so......

So since at startup time is when the supply is in its most unstable state my thoughts were perhaps some form of mains transit (phase relationship) at the wrong time was causing it to lose regulation (as in a neg feedback loop losses it) and slamming (runaway or race condition) it into a hard on state and boom follows...

So maybe its just a case of being unlucky at switch on from cold
Like linuxguru said

APFC units are more susceptible to bad line conditions

right at the wrong time is my though.
(maybe the been counters cut one component too many)

Anyway No idea really just a thought on it and could totally be wrong on all counts on it.

Cheers

[Sparky]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

I doubt it was from the switch on since Plywood99 was using his PC at the time it blew. He said (and I quote)

Was browsing the web when a bright flash, with a pop/crack sound came from the back of the psu.

and also

I noticed a electrical type smell yesterday, but thought it was coming from my laser printer since it puts out a similar smell when heating up. Then this morning I play Ep2 for a couple hours and all seems well. Later I'm just browsing when the shebang happens.

At least the PSU kept the damage to itself.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

Stuff burning=probable fan failure (or controller failure so fan tuns off)

[999999999]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

An APFC circuit may have a fet and a diode after the traditional bridge rectifier, it's a shame the were no chip markings provided to clarify the specific part that failed. I mean, what's the point of pointing to a chip with a burnt mark if we never know what it was? Anyway, I suppose that's the way it goes if there was no intention of repair then further exploration would have no use.

It could be a lot of things ranging from counterfeit transistors or diodes to a failure in manufacturing to poor interface or interface insulation failure, inrush current or AC surges gradually damaging the die.

If it was a diode, I don't recall any schottkys over roughly 200V and even those are rare, at this point in the circuit it'd be in the neighborhood of 400V+ Ultrafast which should have a quite high surge current rating in ~ TO-247 package (normally a little over 100A). I suppose a flaw could cause a diode failure here, but generally the mostfet would be more susceptible to damage. Progressive damage to the part from startup inrush current could still cause it to fail during steady operation instead of waiting till the next startup, though it would seem that would happen less often.

[starfury1]

Re: Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT

I doubt it was from the switch on since Plywood99 was using his PC at the time it blew. He said (and I quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plywood99 @ XS
Was browsing the web when a bright flash, with a pop/crack sound came from the back of the psu.

Well there goes that theory

That even becomes more of a worry.....I meant to ask what the conditions of failure and how hard a life it was living (got side tracked again)

I'll try the search function over there again and see if I can find the post, it wouldn't show met the magic number this morning.

The "flash bang" (more accurate really then boom) sounds like its this failure that has been happening with them

Yes 9,s it could be many things......unfortunately no one has done a postmortem on one that really knows psu's

So liberty owning pushing these things are living in dread I suppose