Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

[opernsys]

Hello,

First off, great site. I hope i picked the right section to post in.

Anyway I have a PSU 500W Antec ATX (about 4 years old) that started playing up. The +5V rail was down to 4.3-4.5V so I opened it up and had a look around. I noticed that 2 caps had gone, so i replaced them with Suntan 105c 10V 1000uf (See which I got at my local electronics store.

After the re-cap, the +5V was at 4.9-5.1V, so I was over the moon.

1 Month later, over the last 2 weeks, the voltage has been getting lower and lower day by day. It currently around 4.6-4.7V and droping 0.1 per week.

I have not opened it back up, but I will do soon. I did by spare caps if I need to recap it again.

The question is, are these caps i used 10V 1000uf Suntan's () any good? I have been told to get Low ESR, or inpedance, but I can not compelety comprenhend the PDF.

I am thinking of re-capping with
They are the Panasonic FM series.

Side Note: I am in the process of repairing a Mobo, and need a 8mm 6.3V 1000uf, but the Panasonic don't do 8mm in FM, but they do in NHG (see:https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...26cc6762b4.pdf)

My other alternative is to just use Suntan CD263 10V 1000uf (which might work)..but are they a good cap)

So to finish up:

Are these caps good for mobo and PSU usage?
If no, what in the pdf told you that?


Would this be better: https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...26cc6762b4.pdf
If yes, why?

Can I use this for my 8mm 6.3V 1000uf mobo re-cap, or will the suntan CD263 do ?
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...26cc6762b4.pdf

Why did my PSU voltage go to +5V after the recap (suntan CD263 10V 1000uf x 2), only to drop to 4.6-4.7 1 month later?

So many Q's thanks for reading and hopefully answering..

P.S: I did no spellcheck..

opernsys

[gonzo0815]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

Those Suntec are not that good for your PSU. Antec`s psu are imho getting a little hot inside, and your caps have only 1000 to 2000h lifetime. Wich is may be to short. Then in the linked datasheet there is no ESR nor ripple current stated for the particular capacitance, so there is not mutch to say, if it is suited for psu use. Furthermore, i have not seen mutch info about Suntec, so i personally would not use them. Stay at the major brands, and i think your results would be far better.

The other thing is, you mentioned, that you only have replaced 2 caps. Saidly, if 2 caps are bulging, probably all secondary side caps are at the end of their life. If you are replacing only the obviousely defekt ones, the new caps would probably getting seriousely overstressed.
So recap all low voltage output filtering caps in your psu, this includes probably all caps =>1000uF. And don't reduce the uF rating.


The FM caps are not bad, and i would highly recomend them for motherboards etc. But for the psu, i would suggest something with a longer rated life at 105°c. E.g. Panasonic FC or the comparing series of the other well known brands.
If the psu isn't that hot, may be you can try the FM ones, they should at least last significantly longer than those suntec`s. I personally have used some 2000h rated caps in psu`s, but only if there was no more than about 45°c. If you can obtain Pnasonic FC, i suggest to use them in your psu.

[opernsys]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

Well looks like I will be opening to count how many caps need replacing if i am to re-cap everything below 1000uf.

I will open it up and see what i can re-cap easily. Some were is hard to get places, so I will just do the easy ones with good quality caps. If that doesn't work, screw it, i will get a new PSU.

The temp of the PSU (well the output air) is 34oC, the PSU RPM is around 2700-2800.

How should i measure PSU temp?

It seems that I can not get FC's. I also need 8mm 10V 1000uf.

I can also get Nichicon PS and PM instead of Panasonic FM (expect I need 8mm 10V 1000uf) and the Nichicon PS and PM do not come in 8mm.

So I guess I am stuck with FM's for the PSU 8mm 10V 1000uf.

BTW: All other voltages out of the PSU are almost perfect, +12=11.856 V 5VSB=4.993 V, Vbat=3.024 V, Vagp=1.552 V, Vcore=1.632 V, Vio=3.280 V, Vdimm=2.592 V...expect +5V=4.730 V.

The re-cap did respond well 4.996 with the suntan, but only for a few weeks.

It's possible i could squeeze a 10mm in from the Nichicon PS or PM range. But which one would be a better option than a Panasonic FM?

opernsys

[opernsys]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

Correction, the RPM values for the PSU were incorrect, i have the sensor connected to the chassis fan not PSU. I let the PSU cool down connected the PSU to sensor and the RPM Idle was approx 1400rpm. Tomorrow it should be warmer and I will get some better RPM figures. I am guessing my PSU does not get too warm, say 40oC tops.

opernsys

[Per Hansson]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

This thread might interest you:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2440

(also the one it links to)

[opernsys]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

Hello,

Well it's a warm day today (24oC). The Sys temp is at 33oC Chassis RPM @ 2800, CPU @ 37oC RPM fixed at 3100RPM.

Now, the PSU RPM is at 1500 RPM, which can go up to 3800RPM depending on temp (smart fan). So my PSU runs quite cool.

Going on this, Panasonic FM's should be OK?

Another note, I had the PSU Fan cable plugged into the mobo pickup labelled PSU Fan. Funny thing is I am not sure if this is a sensor, or something else because the mobo only has two RPM sensor according to the hardware sensors I have used….but it has three pickups.

When I moved the PSU Fan cable from the pickup labelled PSU FAN, to the pickup labelled Chassis Fan, a very interesting thing happened. The +5V rail shot up to 4.919V, which is the same as after I recapped it (I keep the hardware logs). Really strange that everything is work. This is a good thing as I don't like opening PSU's.

I will monitor the temps and replace the Suntan's with Panasonic FM's if I see degrading in +5V rail which are out of the ATX specs.

P.S: Thanks for moving this thread to the right section, apologies.

Questions: Will Panasonic FM's be OK for my PSU, (Based on Temp's/RPM speed of the PSU)?

If these Suntan's rubbish (not a low ESR, can not be determined by the PDF spec sheet), what risks do I run? Am I better off just replacing the Suntan's with Panasonic FM's? (If yes, why?)

What is the mobo pickup PSU Fan do?, why was there a -0.3V reduction in +5V when I plugged the PSU Fan cable into it?

I hope you can answer these questions.

opernsys

[gonzo0815]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

How do you messured the voltage? keep in mind that the onboard monitoring chips are fairly inaccurate, furthermore the genratedmnoise from e.g. a fan can easily distord the chip, getting a false reading. Use a DVM to chek voltage.

The concern leaving the Suntec`S in the psu is ripple curremt, wich can lead to data corruption and posibly to dammaged caps on the board and other components. But as long as the caps will work, it should be ok. i think you can use the FM`s, it should at least last several years without problems.
The Suntecs are Low esr caps, but the datasheet contains no values for the particular cap sizes. Furthermore there is indicated a low rated liefspan wich is in the combination of unknown brand noting i would thrust, especially in PSU.
I personally would replace the 12v and the 3,3v caps too, as they have degraded in the same way. Keep in mind, that your HDD and thus all your data are on the 12v rail.

I would fix the whole psu by replacing all secondary side caps grater or equal to 1000uF. Otherwise it is better to buy a new one. If you want to fix something do it right or let it be, unless any cap would economically hurt you.

[opernsys]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

Hello,

The ripple is 615, inpedance is 0.18: See:
I emailed Suntec who told me about this PDF.

Yes, I think I might replace the accessable caps with Panasonic FM's.

All voltages were taken from the hardware chips. I did not use a DMM/DVM.

Since my PC is important, I might just replace the PSU, and use this PSU in another space PC i will build once I re-cap my old spare mobo.

Thanks

opernsys

[gonzo0815]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

Ok, this datasheet is ok, unfortunately the stated values are not quite good. I would not use them in an PSU nor on an motherboard. The ESR is IMHO too high.

[opernsys]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

Hello gonzo0815

How did you calculate ESR?

Pana FM:
10V 1000uf 10x16
1790 ripple
0.026 Impedance
4000 hours

Suntan CD263
10V 1000uf 10x16
0.18 Impedance
615 ripple
2000 hours

opernsys

[gonzo0815]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

It is the ESR, that means the resistance the caps has for all the currents, wich are flwoing through them. IF the ESR is high, the ripple current induces heat in the caps. Therefore with lower ESR you can have more ripple current until a certain temperature will be reached. Look at the impedance, the FM has 0.026Ohm, this are 26mOhm the Suntec has 180mOhm, this is not something, i would considering as LOW ESR. It is a general purpoe cap nothing else.
For PSU i would not use anything say above 50mOhm.
Unfortunately, i have no exact calculation sheme for the ripple current vs ESR, but the datasheets cover that.

[opernsys]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

thanks gonzo0815

Actually I read FM as 0.26 and Suntec as 0.18. (missed the 0) but yes, there is a HUGE difference between 26 and 180.

What are the risks with a High impedance?

opernsys

[gonzo0815]

Re: Power Supply Antec 500W + Mobo Questions

A PSU transform the DC voltage into a high frequency (about 40 to 200khz) itno a squarewave, then a coil stores the enrgy and a diode odr mosfet rectify it.But on the output there i now a intermitant DC voltage. The caps duty is now to equalize the this and to smoth the voltage. E.g. if the voltage is present, the cap charges and stores the enrgy, if the voltage is of, he discharges the energy into the load. this charging and discharging leads to a continiouse current flowing through the cap. This is the ripple current. Obviousely, the more current the load needs, the more ripple current will flow through the cap. The higher the ESR, the more is the voltage drop if the switcher is of, and the more heat will generated.

In short: the higher the ESr the higher the remaining ripple and noise wich will be pased to the load and the cap could be thermaly overstresed, wich will lead to an early failure (e.g lowering capacitance, increasing ESR.......).

I have locked at the datasheet of FM, i think they are absolut fine for using in PSU. If you can fit them, there is no problem.